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Thread: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

  1. #1
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    Default Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Here is a maddening, yet interesting encounter that i had last night.

    I was shooting with my Nikon D90 at the S-league match between Sengkang Punggol and Gombak United at Hougang Stadium last night. I was just shooting at the Grandstand area and did not even go anywhere near the tracks, less the pitch.

    At half time, i was asked by a security personnel and a lady (presumably from FAS since she was sitting at the organising table) to stop taking photos. They said that no photography is allowed unless i have the media pass.

    I told them that i was not taking at the pitch area and that i was just taking at the Grandstands and the photos are for my own use. I said this because i know we need media pass to have access to take photos at the pitch area.

    They insisted that I am not allowed to take photos without a media pass even at the Grand Stand area. I asked them how do i apply for a media pass and they said i have to be working for the media. The lady continued to say that my camera looks professional and can take good photos. At this point, i was feeling agitated and told them that I am not a professional and that taking photos is just a hobby.

    They continue to insist me not to take any photos and ask me to keep my camera. I did not want to argue with them so i just kept my camera, shook my head with disgust and went back to where i was seated. After that, i took out my camera and started snapping again.

    After the match, i checked the ticket stub and there was no mention of "No Photography". There was no "No Photography" sign at the entrance or anywhere in the stadium. I checked the S-league website and there are no rules regarding taking photos at matches. The only thing i found is related to those media's photographers where they are not allowed to take at the stands.

    I was quite pissed with the organiser and the security personnel comments and reasons for disallowing photography. I am a fan of Sengkang Punggol FC and i actually support local football. Being a fan who loves to take photos, I want to take photos of the matches so that i can put them up at Facebook, blogs, etc. to encourage more people to support local football. FAS wants more people to attend the S-League matches and support local football, yet they are being so unprofessional in these areas (I feel that the lady's response that my Nikon D90 looks pro and can take good photos is damn unprofessional). All these just turn me off.

    If they have such rule on "No photography" and had told me there and then, I would have obediently obey at that moment. But probably i will challenge the rule through other means. But i think they do not have such rules, and just want to use their authoritative power to stop me from taking photos.

    The last thing that i am unhappy with is the fact that so many ignorant people think that having a dSLR makes one a professional and even "discriminate" towards them. Mine is one example. The lady's comment make it seems like "if i take photos with a normal PnS camera, it is ok because those cant take nice photos" and i bet i will not be running into trouble if i was just using a PnS camera. How ignorant. Nowadays, a dSLR might be even cheaper than a PnS camera and some people can take nicer photos with even a PnS camera. dSLR is getting so cheap nowadays and every Tom, Dick and Harry have the ability to own one but that doesnt make them a professional. This shows how ignorant and stereotype people can get.

  2. #2
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    ....pssst.... its a hush hush soccer league..... they want to avoid publicity on their standards of football

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    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    There is a thread on this issue already, but if you are sure there is no rule prohibiting photogaphy, go ahead and challenge them

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    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    ....pssst.... its a hush hush soccer league..... they want to avoid publicity on their standards of football
    Not that its garnering much attention now anyway...

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    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    Not that its garnering much attention now anyway...

    Yup... They have all the negative attention. Most recent ones are those of the bad refereeing at matches...

    So many events and places allow photography nowadays, why not a small local football match right?. I am able to take photos of Mona Lisa in the Louvre, at NDP, F1 Grand Prix, and even at the "Cats" Musical, etc. I was quite surprised in fact when the usher told us that we can take photos during the musical, just that no flash is allowed.

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    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    The lack of education contributes a lot to the situation. You said it, there are no directives governing photography in matches so to the uneducated, its better to be kiasu than to be sorry so they kill it altogether.

    I remember taking photos of a newly completed building in town from across the street ans I was stopped. I told the guard I was taking photos of the sky and his building was in the way. Can you move your building? I got a blank look and moved on.....

  7. #7

    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    in such a situation, i will ask them nicely, do they have any basis for asking me to stop. if they say they do, i will then ask nicely, is it alright if i clarify this with the higher management, and ask for both their names, while smiling sweetly.

    usually at this point they will either think properly about whether they have basis to stop or not. and i have not been too painful in the ass, since i have been smiling and been very cooperative.

    if they are still sure, i will make it a point to clarify. if one level is not sure, go up until someone states clearly, yes or no. if i am then not happy with the answer, further action can be taken, via public feedback. at least i have something to present and the issue can be discussed properly.

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    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Actually, another thing that went through my mind was about all those brothers and sisters out here... haa..

    I wanted to "make noise" to newspaper and higher level but i worried that because of this, they will "state clearly" in the rules about "No Photography" and even put up signs around stadiums and in tickets.

    In the end, everyone strictly not allowed to take photos because of me... that will be like the ultimate sins committed.

    So, i guess the best thing to do is listen to their "advice" with one ear and come out the other ear... Agree with them at that moment.. but the next moment take out camera and take again like nobody business, at most get chase out, then maybe will make noise... The security personnel saw me still taking photos after they "advise" me but he did nothing. Guess he is ok with photography, just that he was under the instructions of the FAS lady...
    Last edited by hongwen37; 5th August 2009 at 10:31 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Some people are just too close-minded to understand that photography can actually helps to promote and raise the awareness of its subjects, in this case S-League.

    Initially, movie and music companies hated Youtube so much and wanted to bring the website down for fearing of lost revenues due to bootleg videos. But now they are using Youtube to reach out to millions of viewers around the world.

    Musicians used to hate the concept of MP3 due to frustrations of P2P file sharing, but now they are releasing e-albums and even offering MP3 format of their music for free on the net.

    Times have changed and hopefully, people's, or should I say Sinagporeans perception towards DSLR photography can be updated as well.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Its the top 10 league in Asia.
    Trying so hard to be #1 so they must keep a low profile i guess.
    Anyway, i dont think photography is not allowed.
    I did once at Hougang Stadium w/o any problems...

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    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by hongwen37 View Post
    So, i guess the best thing to do is listen to their "advice" with one ear and come out the other ear... Agree with them at that moment.. but the next moment take out camera and take again like nobody business, at most get chase out, then maybe will make noise... The security personnel saw me still taking photos after they "advise" me but he did nothing. Guess he is ok with photography, just that he was under the instructions of the FAS lady...
    Yeah, bro, you're not committing any crime. At most, they will come back to you again and stop you from shooting or escort you out. There might be rules, just like football. You break the rule and you get some penalty. So, just do it la.

    Guess what, I was once at a construction site that was very strict about taking pictures. I used by PnS to shoot discreetly, but got caught by the security guard. They make sure that I erased away all the pictures. It took me a loooong time to recover those pictures!
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    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Maybe you can feedback to the SSC?

    If they want to promote sports, free publicity from photography is a bonus right?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by hongwen37 View Post
    Actually, another thing that went through my mind was about all those brothers and sisters out here... haa..

    I wanted to "make noise" to newspaper and higher level but i worried that because of this, they will "state clearly" in the rules about "No Photography" and even put up signs around stadiums and in tickets.

    In the end, everyone strictly not allowed to take photos because of me... that will be like the ultimate sins committed.
    that is true too.

    to be honest, though, i doubt they can really justify the enforcement of such things.

    and when that is the case, no one will follow, and the rules will be scrapped eventually.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    i have shot once before at Jurong East stadium when Albirex host SAFFC..

    shot with my D90 and monopod throughout the 90 mins without anyone approaching me..

    maybe different stadiums have different ruling?
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    Senior Member geraldkhoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by absoluthal View Post
    Its the top 10 league in Asia.
    Trying so hard to be #1 so they must keep a low profile i guess.
    Anyway, i dont think photography is not allowed.
    I did once at Hougang Stadium w/o any problems...
    err... how many soccer leagues are there in Asia?
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    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by geraldkhoo View Post
    err... how many soccer leagues are there in Asia?
    a fair bit.

    Japan has one
    Korea has one (maybe even two!)
    China has one
    Hong Kong has one
    Thailand has one
    Vietnam has one
    Malaysia has one
    Indonesia has one
    Cambodia has one
    India has one


    the Middle East has several!

    sooooooo.... a fair bit actually
    chicken fight!

  17. #17
    Senior Member geraldkhoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by terryansimon View Post
    a fair bit.

    Japan has one
    Korea has one (maybe even two!)
    China has one
    Hong Kong has one
    Thailand has one
    Vietnam has one
    Malaysia has one
    Indonesia has one
    Cambodia has one
    India has one


    the Middle East has several!

    sooooooo.... a fair bit actually
    Ahh... thanks... if I'm top 10 out of 10 leagues, does not say much... but if I'm top 10 out of 20 leagues, it speaks more
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    That's a crummy incident you faced. I can't think of any good reason why a small, local match should be saddled with this sort of restrictions.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Anson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Next time can consider buy the Pen-1 and a fit a SWD long prime on it.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Discrimination towards dSLR Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by hongwen37 View Post
    Here is a maddening, yet interesting encounter that i had last night.

    I was shooting with my Nikon D90 at the S-league match between Sengkang Punggol and Gombak United at Hougang Stadium last night. I was just shooting at the Grandstand area and did not even go anywhere near the tracks, less the pitch.

    At half time, i was asked by a security personnel and a lady (presumably from FAS since she was sitting at the organising table) to stop taking photos. They said that no photography is allowed unless i have the media pass.

    I told them that i was not taking at the pitch area and that i was just taking at the Grandstands and the photos are for my own use. I said this because i know we need media pass to have access to take photos at the pitch area.

    They insisted that I am not allowed to take photos without a media pass even at the Grand Stand area. I asked them how do i apply for a media pass and they said i have to be working for the media. The lady continued to say that my camera looks professional and can take good photos. At this point, i was feeling agitated and told them that I am not a professional and that taking photos is just a hobby.

    They continue to insist me not to take any photos and ask me to keep my camera. I did not want to argue with them so i just kept my camera, shook my head with disgust and went back to where i was seated. After that, i took out my camera and started snapping again.

    After the match, i checked the ticket stub and there was no mention of "No Photography". There was no "No Photography" sign at the entrance or anywhere in the stadium. I checked the S-league website and there are no rules regarding taking photos at matches. The only thing i found is related to those media's photographers where they are not allowed to take at the stands.

    I was quite pissed with the organiser and the security personnel comments and reasons for disallowing photography. I am a fan of Sengkang Punggol FC and i actually support local football. Being a fan who loves to take photos, I want to take photos of the matches so that i can put them up at Facebook, blogs, etc. to encourage more people to support local football. FAS wants more people to attend the S-League matches and support local football, yet they are being so unprofessional in these areas (I feel that the lady's response that my Nikon D90 looks pro and can take good photos is damn unprofessional). All these just turn me off.

    If they have such rule on "No photography" and had told me there and then, I would have obediently obey at that moment. But probably i will challenge the rule through other means. But i think they do not have such rules, and just want to use their authoritative power to stop me from taking photos.

    The last thing that i am unhappy with is the fact that so many ignorant people think that having a dSLR makes one a professional and even "discriminate" towards them. Mine is one example. The lady's comment make it seems like "if i take photos with a normal PnS camera, it is ok because those cant take nice photos" and i bet i will not be running into trouble if i was just using a PnS camera. How ignorant. Nowadays, a dSLR might be even cheaper than a PnS camera and some people can take nicer photos with even a PnS camera. dSLR is getting so cheap nowadays and every Tom, Dick and Harry have the ability to own one but that doesnt make them a professional. This shows how ignorant and stereotype people can get.
    Just curious. Were you using a 600mm F4 lens?

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