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Thread: Dilemma

  1. #1

    Smile Dilemma

    Hi all,

    Am really having a Dilemma over shopping a digicam. hope that good fellas out there could help chip in some ideas.

    I am really fond of the Olympus 5060 due to its compact size, which allows me to carry along when travelling and the waterproof casing that I can get at a sweet 300SGD pricetag. The only thing that stops me from bringing it home is because its not a SLR.

    See I am starting to take up photography as a hobby and I would really like to explore it to the fullest. And my believe is that you would get the fullest fun with a SLR.

    But then, I am face with one of the most common constraints like many of you ... budget.

    I don't think I wanna spent more than 2000SGD for my first camera... so here are my options for now. If you can suggest anything better, by all means ... everything welcome!!!

    1) 5060 to start with, get a E1 when I am more mature with the hobby. Btw just wondering if both these olympus can share their lenses?
    2) 300D to start with. save up for a couple more months to get G5. Also wondering if these cannon can share lenses?
    3) Get a normal SLR to start with ... then decide on where to pursue next...

    Thanks all for reading.

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by napkinidea
    But then, I am face with one of the most common constraints like many of you ... budget.

    I don't think I wanna spent more than 2000SGD for my first camera...
    1) 5060 is only a compact digicam, meaning it does not have interchangable lenses. Therefore it cannot share lenses with E-1, although lenses used by the E-1 can be used in future Olympus DSLRs. Street price ~$1200.

    The E-1 system can easily cost you $3000-$4000--at least this was the price I saw at the exhibition at Suntec recently.

    2) 300D kit street price is average $1800, and it comes with an EF-S lens. Beware that this EF-S lens is of different mount from other EOS DSLRs, and therefore can only be used on the 300D (and other future EF-S supported DSLRs, if they appear). However, the 300D can take other normal EF lenses.

    Note that usually DSLRs (i.e. 300D included) do not come with memory media, so getting a decent 256MB to start off will cost another $130 or so.

    G5 is cheaper (~$1200) and is not a DSLR, meaning it cannot use other EF lenses.

    3) An good entry level film SLR (e.g. EOS 300/300V) will cost $600-$800 with kit lens, much cheaper if you get it 2nd hand. With this price you can get a prosumer SLR (e.g. EOS 30/33) 2nd hand, usually without lenses.

    Now, my suggestions stems from the assumption that you want to move into DSLR eventually. With that:-

    My advice is if you are not rushing into digital, the cheapest option will be to start off with a 2nd hand film SLR and save the money to invest in lenses and film. Once you decide to switch to DSLR the lenses will come into play.

    Compact digicams are practically not very wise as an option to upgrade into the DSLR arena, as they are just like that...the only thing that you can bring over are the memory cards.

    The cheapest DSLR (e.g. EOS 300D) cost at least $1800, excluding media. If you are into photography you will find that you'll outgrow the kit lens pretty fast and will want to move on to other better lenses, so this is the most expensive option.

    Summary:-

    - For digital, you need to consider upgradability and media costs. For DSLRs, you need to consider buying lenses in the future--and that will often cost more than your digital body.

    - For film, there is high recurrent per-unit costs of film and processing that digital does not incur. However, it is a mature technology and with the trend of digital, there's never been a better time to go into film SLR for those with limited budgets. Lenses can be brought over to DSLRs in the future.

    P/S: I'm a Canon user, so my "e.g." models are based on the EOS system. Nikon, Olympus, Contax users who find the above recommendations not true for your particular system are welcome to add your comments.

  3. #3

    Default

    Personal opinion, if you just want to test out SLR like photography, I suggest you just get one fixed lens Digital SLR like camera, preferablely second handed. No point paying thru your noses for a body, the lenses, flash, tripod .... other items......

    A good Digital SLR like camera will be Minolta Dimage series. For example A1, which can can cost up to $1800. Of course, you can get a secondhand Minolta Dimage 7i from Frisky, who is trying to sell it for $850.

    Play around with it until you are happy then decides if you are willing to invest heavily on a DSLR. Of course by then you could also decide if you want to keep your Fixed lens SLR like camera as backup or sell it off as second hand.

    Oh.... btw.... I am a Canon 10D user too ......

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by napkinidea
    Hi all,

    Am really having a Dilemma over shopping a digicam. hope that good fellas out there could help chip in some ideas.

    I am really fond of the Olympus 5060 due to its compact size, which allows me to carry along when travelling and the waterproof casing that I can get at a sweet 300SGD pricetag. The only thing that stops me from bringing it home is because its not a SLR.

    See I am starting to take up photography as a hobby and I would really like to explore it to the fullest. And my believe is that you would get the fullest fun with a SLR.

    But then, I am face with one of the most common constraints like many of you ... budget.

    I don't think I wanna spent more than 2000SGD for my first camera... so here are my options for now. If you can suggest anything better, by all means ... everything welcome!!!

    1) 5060 to start with, get a E1 when I am more mature with the hobby. Btw just wondering if both these olympus can share their lenses?
    2) 300D to start with. save up for a couple more months to get G5. Also wondering if these cannon can share lenses?
    3) Get a normal SLR to start with ... then decide on where to pursue next...

    Thanks all for reading.
    OK - here is a breakdown of your needs:

    1) you want an SLR;
    2) you are thinking digital;
    3) you have a planned budget.
    4) you have made 3 choices of purchase.

    OK let 's zoom into choice #2 - 300D kit.
    1) yes, it is a SLR;
    2) yes, it is digital;
    3) yes, within your planned budget*
    (30D comes with 29~88 mm [35mm equivalent] zoom lens and built-in flash) but you probably need to add about $200 for a 512MB CF and assuming you have a reasonable PC setup at home able to handle the image storage/processing..

    Assuming this is your decision, where do you go from here for future expansion:
    1) tripod
    2) additional lens to extend the reach - EF24-85 (from $300+ used, to $500 new); something in the 70-200 range? or a budget 28~200 Tamron?
    3) External flash 420EX (new about $330?) or 550EX?
    4) Additional CF card(s)?

    What can make you regret this decision?
    - you want to go for a trip and you find your kit too "bulky"?
    - you have learnt to use the camera well and find that you need (or persuaded into believing that you need) a better body?
    - no waterproof casing (i am not sure if there is waterproof casing for the 300D)

    have fun deciding and if you do decide on 300D, happy waiting too..
    cheers
    Last edited by skf; 18th December 2003 at 09:06 AM.

  5. #5

    Default

    great analysis. I've also made a few phone calls during the day (and SKF - now I know what u meant by happy waiting).

    Following are what I've narrowed down.

    Canon EOS 10D
    Nikon D100
    Olympus E1

    And my revised needs are as follows:
    1) I want an SLR;
    2) I are thinking digital;
    3) I have a planned budget SGD4000
    4) I have made 3 choices of purchase.
    5) I prefer a model that can last me 3 years, accompanying me through the days of novice through intermediate
    6) I am into underwater photography

    Would like to hear some war stories from Canon/Nikon/Olympus users alike. Thanks thanks!

  6. #6

    Default

    I cannot comment much on which particular model to purchase, but:-

    - 10D and D100 are tried-and-tested models and have survived pretty much on the field by many photographers. They have similar specs and have a readily large array of lenses to choose from, because they can use lenses from their SLR counterparts.

    - EOS 10D is the 3rd evolution (from D30 and D60) of Canon's EOS digital series for their prosumer line, and hence is pretty mature in technology compared to others in your choice.

    - E1 is a relatively new (and late) player in the DSLR arena, and is a completely new system. Hence there are limited lenses out there, and because it is so new, its future is still unclear. You may be stuck with the few options if Olympus decides to abandon the system (not likely though). However, if the system survives it may pay off in the long run if other manufacturers adopt the four-thirds standard.

    Focal length multiplication/crop factor:-
    - 10D: 1.6x 35mm standard
    - D100: 1.5x 35mm standard
    - E1: 2x 35mm standard (no worries as the Zuiko Digital lenses are formatted solely for the E1 system)

    Your budget of $4000 is enough to cover even the most expensive E1 option. Beware, though, that you will soon want to complement your system with accessories and more lenses, so less money on the body will mean more money on other things. Nevertheless, go slow, and buy only when you need them.

  7. #7
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    Default

    don't think $4K is enough if you want to use the SLR underwater. the casings are very expensive (almost as expensive as the cameras) from my limited knowledge....

    anyway, a DSLR/SLR is not the most convenient camera to carry around and many DSLR/SLR users have bought compact cameras as a "convenient" carry around.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by napkinidea
    great analysis. I've also made a few phone calls during the day (and SKF - now I know what u meant by happy waiting).

    Following are what I've narrowed down.

    Canon EOS 10D
    Nikon D100
    Olympus E1

    And my revised needs are as follows:
    1) I want an SLR;
    2) I are thinking digital;
    3) I have a planned budget SGD4000
    4) I have made 3 choices of purchase.
    5) I prefer a model that can last me 3 years, accompanying me through the days of novice through intermediate
    6) I am into underwater photography

    Would like to hear some war stories from Canon/Nikon/Olympus users alike. Thanks thanks!
    Are you sure you want those three?

    The body itself will blow your budget. Olympus E1 starting kit already cost $4000, and no underwater casing.

    Being a novice, I sincerely doubt you will be looking at their advanced feature, at least not yet. You would rather get a lower end body, like 300D and invest in good lenses instead. The body will be obsoleted easily, but not the lenses. As long as it uses the same mount, your lenses can be carried over to your next body you want to purchase. Or you might want to see who wants to sell their D60 bodies, which would cost about 300D body now. D60 is almost as good as 10D.

    For underwater photography, there are casings that could withstand water pressure until about 40m. One good example will be ikelite underwater system, it's housing for D100 is about $1900 sing dollars, excluding shipping charges. Or Sea and Sea's DX series of underwater casing, costing nearly $1900 too.

    1 x body + 1 x casing will blow your budget. Moreover, you would not want to bring such a wonderful camera down underwater until you are fully confidence with your skill and boenancy. I think a Olympus 5050 (5060 seems of lesser build for underwater photography) will be good enough for underwater photography.

    Underwater photography, you could check with Andrew of Sea and Sea at adelphi centre, he will most probably recommed you his ricoh camera system, but just ask him for the price of the casing for 10D and D100 ..... it will blow your budget right away .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by blurblock
    A good Digital SLR like camera will be Minolta Dimage series. For example A1, which can can cost up to $1800. Of course, you can get a secondhand Minolta Dimage 7i from Frisky, who is trying to sell it for $850.
    Minolta Dimage series are NOT digital SLRs.

    For me a Nikon user, I feel the D100 has proven itself, going strong for 2 years now, and surviving 3 price changes (recent change to $2988 RRP). And likely it probably won't be going MIA any time soon.

    The only concern I have here is with what mpenza mentioned. Underwater casings for SLRs don't really come cheap. If you want to go full time into photography as a hobby, the C5060 should be able to kick you off well + casing. Although yes, there are no lenses to change here and there.

    Believe me, after carrying a SLR, sometimes, all you'd want, is a point and shoot DC

  10. #10

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    Dimage is a "SLR Like" camera ..... hehehehe..... read properly lah ..... This camera is good to give him a "feel" for SLR in digital format .

    Anyway, D100 is a very good camera too ...... one person is trying to sell it secondhanded and it is a value for money !!!!! Should go for it if you are seriously going into Digital photography .... of course get another camera for for diving lah ...... When I dive, most people carry C5050 ..... most people commented C5060 ..... like S*** underwater .... whahahahhahaa......

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=55402
    Last edited by blurblock; 19th December 2003 at 05:28 PM.

  11. #11
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    I have the same problem with you also. I wanted to by DSLR, but no money. I have been using Canon G3 for the past one year, I fully undertand my camera limitation (fix lens, limited ISO setting). So I decided to upgrade myself.

    Upgrade only offer me 2 way:
    1. Get a DSLR plus all the lens (Startup is very expensive but long term cheap)
    2. Get SLR plus all the lens (Startup is expensive, long term so so)

    So aftr much consideration, I decided to get EOS 30 (SLR). That was 3 months back, not I got a body and 3 lenses. I am happy with this body, I learned to be a better photograph day by day. I hardy touch my G3, unless I want a quick shot. If in the future, I happen to have enough money to get a DSLR. I only have to spend few thousands on the body, all the lens is there for me to use. The down side about having SLR, I need to fork out money to develop my film. But since my shooting per month is around 4-5 rolls, so its a small matter to my pocket.

    So my suggestion is, get SLR plus few lens.

    cheers

  12. #12
    Senior Member scud's Avatar
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    to top up of what has been discussed here:

    DSLR
    - faster feedback loop, therefore u can immediately rectify mistakes
    - more expensive at startup, but long run you will save the hassle (eg dif iso films,go to photolab for processing ..ect)

    SLR
    - slower feedback loop, u will only know what go wrong after getting the film processed. by then, u may forget the setting u had used, unless dont mind the hassle of writing down the setting manually in note book.
    - films have may iso to choose from, cost involved.

  13. #13

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    OK .. OK ... Great analysis by skf et al

    Canon EOS 300D average priced and good, Nikon D70 will have to wait until next year. Try it, if you are not sure whether you are able to substain your hobby. Can play the waiting time longer if you are not in a hurry.

    Canon 10D and Nikon D100, I would say it is for the more serious photographer. If really serious about going into Digital Photography, then it is perhaps the best choice to choose. The completed system would probably cost > $5K. You will regrets if you quits half way through your interest.

    Suggestion is to get DSLR, you can get more out of it in the long term.

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