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Thread: viewing with obligation???

  1. #1

    Default viewing with obligation???

    Hi Guys,

    I just got back after travelling from Tampines to Yishun to meet a seller, came back empty handed and feeling puzzled and alittle pissed.

    Firstly, I responded to one of the B&S posting for a used CZ lens.
    I have no idea how old the lens was, before viewing.
    However, the seller as rated his lens as 10.
    CS rating for a 10 means:

    Condition: 10
    Description: Very carefully used. Only very light user marks. Without close inspection, item would pass for mint.
    Also known as: Mint(-), Near-Mint, A

    Frankly, the exterior of this lens look ok, easily between 9 to 10.
    I am fine with it.
    I tried the lens with a AF confirm adapater, and it works fine.
    Good, I thought...
    I then, proceed to check on the glass.
    To my dismay, there are plenty of dust.
    Secondly, there are tiny and faint-looking spiderwebs growing on over the glass.
    This, of course if not the worst spiderwebs I have ever seen on a lens before..but I am pretty sure it is fungus.
    I told the seller that those spiderwebs, look like fungus to me.

    He took a look, and told me there is no problem when he use this lens and went on to assure me that they are just dust.
    I took another closer look with a penlight, and told him dust are usually very tiny speck of line. Those are like super tiny spiderwebs, or palm-shaped..so in my opinion, they are not dust.

    This seller went on to insist that he has no problem with all the images he took with this lens before.
    I told him that those spiderwebs will grow in times to come, if they are indeed fungus.
    These fungus will also spread to my other lenses in the same cabinet if I put it in.

    I told him very politely, that I cannot buy this lens and probably said "不好意思" at least 3-4 times thereafter.
    He complained that he has never come across someone as picky as me when buying lens.

    He asked me if I am complaining on the condition, because I wanted a discount?
    I told him, I will not buy this lens even if he give me discount.
    I also told him, I did not travel all the way from Tampines to Yishun at 1030pm, just to view for fun.

    He was still checking his lens, and this point, and shaking his head and said that if I am so picky, he cannot do anything too.
    He, again commented that those are just dust, and I am overly-picky.
    I told him I am fine with there are some dust specks, as some of my older lenses have them too...but those should be fungus in my opinion.
    Then again, there are too much dust.
    I told him, why dont he clean it at one of the shops @ peninsula, and we can arrange to meet there?

    He then, packed his stuffs quickly, turned around and stormed off without a word!!!
    I was still sitting there and feeling alittle shocked at his behaviour.

    My words to this seller.
    Dont you think I should be the one who should be angry, after being assured that lens is rated 10 before viewing?
    I am the one who travelled from Tampines to Yishun, and back to Tampines again.

    Was I not nice enough, to apologise by saying several times "不好意思"?

    Do I deserve the black face, and storming off?

    If you cannot accept "viewing without obligation" for your lens, please kindly write in your B&S posting.
    "if you view, you must accept and buy!"

    For this seller, and other newbies..please see below images and reviews about what is fungus.


    Of course, for his CZ that I have checked..the tiny spiderweb stuffs can only be seen when I open to the widest aperture and look thru the light.
    Otherwise, it is not very visible.
    I cannot convince myself those spiderwebs are dust, and thus I am not buying.
    To me, spiderwebs are fungus and not dust. period.

    It is about being a gentleman, I can still buy this seller a coffee and chat about photography if he did not behave this way.

  2. #2
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Who is the seller? Let's hear the other side of the story.

  3. #3

    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    I am just trying to advocate "viewing without obligation".
    I travelled to the seller's convenient location, as I think it is fairer that way.

    The whole affair did not last more than 15 mins, just incase someone thought I spent an hour checking the lens and did not want to buy in the end.

    I did not name the seller, as maybe he will still like to sell this lens to others who can accept spiderwebs as dust.
    I do not want to "spoil his business"

    I think it not about the fungus.
    I can accept that the seller felt that those webs-like stuffs are dusts, to each his own.

    But I cannot understand the need to be pissed off at me, and stormed off...just because I think otherwise, and cannot accept the lens...and I was not even pissed.

  4. #4

    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Maybe he thought he can trick you into buying a fungus infested lens

  5. #5

    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    From your perspective, obviously the seller was pissed because he couldn't trick you. Can't expect everyone to be nice. Good thing that you didn't buy, if you're not pissed then i think just move on and forget about it.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Maybe he has difficulties handling rejections.
    By storming off, it sounds like this guy might also be short-tempered.

  7. #7

    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    There are some who may not know what fungus looks like, especially if it's just the start of the growth. And there are some who very well know, but will still advertise their items as a cond 10 hoping suspects will not know, or won't be able to detect.

    Recently one 'famous' seller in the westcoast area who regularly deals in German and exotic lenses got exposed for this and then more buyers who got conned also came forward to voice their experiences.

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showt...ht=thinkvision

    Just be careful, and if you're not sure, take someone along who knows their stuff and help you check.

    Unless you committed to buy regardless of what the item's condition turns out to be, it's only reasonable that you expect that the seller's description is accurate, thorough and honest. If not, you're not obligated in any way because the other party did not fulfill their end of the deal.

  8. #8
    Deregistered shaoken's Avatar
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    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    There are some who may not know what fungus looks like, especially if it's just the start of the growth. And there are some who very well know, but will still advertise their items as a cond 10 hoping suspects will not know, or won't be able to detect.

    Recently one 'famous' seller in the westcoast area who regularly deals in German and exotic lenses got exposed for this and then more buyers who got conned also came forward to voice their experiences.

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showt...ht=thinkvision

    Just be careful, and if you're not sure, take someone along who knows their stuff and help you check.

    Unless you committed to buy regardless of what the item's condition turns out to be, it's only reasonable that you expect that the seller's description is accurate, thorough and honest. If not, you're not obligated in any way because the other party did not fulfill their end of the deal.
    Hmm.. West Coast area..
    I'm staying there. Hope I won't need get things from him..

  9. #9
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Just ignore them as you have no obligations to BUY poor quality stuff.

    Anyway, for those interested, the serial number is already there on the picture...
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lomographer's Avatar
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    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    Just ignore them as you have no obligations to BUY poor quality stuff.

    Anyway, for those interested, the serial number is already there on the picture...
    haha, still zac08 is very sharped eye

    maybe we can hear the seller's side of the story?
    Pentax K-x

  11. #11

    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    Just ignore them as you have no obligations to BUY poor quality stuff.

    Anyway, for those interested, the serial number is already there on the picture...
    I believe the pic that he post is just a sample image from internet.
    Ronald Lee | DSLR World
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  12. #12

    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    haha...nothing wrong when u r not buying .

    cheers
    to continue press hex key , to return to main menu press star

  13. #13

    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Yes, the picture is just an image I got from
    http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.a...no=194&pgno=11

    (forgotten to link it earlier)

    The lens which I have inspected is much much better, to be honest.
    The tiny bits of spiderweb like stuff is only visible when I look thru the glasses.

    As I have mentioned earlier, I gave the seller the benefit of doubt that he is not familiar with dusts/fungus, and therefore I did not get pissed off with him or the situation.
    I, really thought I was nice to even continue talking to him and advise him that due to the humidity of Singapore's weather, it is almost a MUST to put all our equipments in dry cabinets.
    He said he did, and I told him since he bought it as 2nd hand piece, maybe it is the previous owner's fault.

    He went on to insisit that his images taken with this lens are all good.
    (And I continued to advise him that it is better to get a pro to inspect it, and clean if it's really fungus, cos they will multiply and might spread to other lenses in the same cabinet)

    From the amount of dust on the glass, I am very sure the Seller did not clean it before he showed it to me. He even told me that he has never touch the glass element of this lens before.
    He also did not bring a cleaning cloth, or blower, and hence he could not clean the so-called "dust" away too.
    So?? What can I do?? Assume they are dusts and buy it?

    The problem here is not whether the spiderweb-like stuffs that I have seen are fungus are not.
    I may not also wrong too.

    I have also bought an old manual lens from someone in CS before, a 50mm f/1.8 nikon E.
    I looked thru the glass, and there were at least 5-10 dust specks. I bought it without even mentioning the dust to the Seller, as I am ok with some dust specks.

    I think as a buyer should have the rights to view without obligation, and without the Seller giving such an attitude.
    For everyone info, the Time and Venue were decided by the Seller to his convenience, and I agreed and reached on time.

    I will be a real jerk, if I see a clean piece of glass and still refuse to buy it..cos' I view to try and for fun. I spent more than a week, researching online about this lens and the money was already in my wallet when I went to meet him. I am not viewing for FUN!!

    However, in this case, there are lotsa dust and those tiny spiderwebs in his lens...so as a Buyer, I should have the right to refuse it.
    The Seller should not be pissed off too, and need insult me by saying if I am seeking more discounts by complaining about the "dust".

    It is just like selling your home property, do you get pissed off and show the buyers a black face if they did not show any interest in buying after viewing for 10-15 mins?
    Last edited by grainpixel; 2nd August 2009 at 11:35 AM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member TheChef's Avatar
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    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Don't buy when you see that something is wrong. There are plenty of unethical sellers out there. I wonder whether buying used lenses is worth the risk since the discount given by sellers are minimal.
    S5Pro|S3Pro|D50|16-85VR2|70-200VR|80-400VR|S50f1.4|105f2|135f2|SB900|SB80DX

  15. #15

    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Anyway, it was no big deal end of the day.
    It is already Sunday...and everyone should be happy on a Sunday...haha

    I have met mostly nice Buyers and Sellers thru' my stay in CS for the past 2-3 years.
    I sold a S$30 filter to someone who dropped by my office to pick it up..and we ended up chatting over a cup of coffee @ the kopitiam for nearly an hour.

    Life is short and Photography is fun...chill.

  16. #16

    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    The person might be in the recycling business or got it from a recycler (or inherited from some storeroom) and thus might explain the dust. And yes, you have the right not to buy item that has misleading information or bad.

    From the way you describe the seller's response, he is not a camera man. So no point talking about equipment.

  17. #17

    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldlee007 View Post
    I believe the pic that he post is just a sample image from internet.
    Yeah. That's a Nikkor 50mm lens.

  18. #18

    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Quote Originally Posted by spheredome View Post
    The person might be in the recycling business or got it from a recycler (or inherited from some storeroom) and thus might explain the dust. And yes, you have the right not to buy item that has misleading information or bad.

    From the way you describe the seller's response, he is not a camera man. So no point talking about equipment.
    I was just puzzled and affected, by him storming off.
    AND I really mean storming off.
    The last time someone i met stormed off without a word (in public), was my ex-GF several years back!

  19. #19

    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Quote Originally Posted by TheChef View Post
    Don't buy when you see that something is wrong. There are plenty of unethical sellers out there. I wonder whether buying used lenses is worth the risk since the discount given by sellers are minimal.
    you are right, there is HARDLY any difference in price between brand new and 2nd hand, at least on CS. like there is a post selling a 2nd hand 55-250mm IS lens at $360. that lens can bought NEW at $350!

  20. #20

    Default Re: viewing with obligation???

    Willing buyer, willing seller basis.
    If either party is not satisfied with the terms, just walk away.

    No need to be unhappy. Both parties have the right to reject.

    For buyers, you have to be extra careful in inspecting and buying second hand goods as there is risk. Sometimes the goods might even be stolen items.

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