Flash or Lens?

[shadowpartner]

Hi.I have a Nikon D60 with Kit Lens and I am planning to get a 50mm f/1.8 AF-S lens when i stumbled upon somewhere a suggestion on spending the money on a ext. flash(say,SB600) instead.

It makes logical sense because in outdoors there is ample sunlight so there is no need for such a wide aperture and in indoors the flash can be used in place of the wider aperture.

Not to mention,the 18-55mm already covers the 50mm so I am leaning more towards purchasing a flash.

I would like to know which one would you choose and what may be the advantages and disadvantages of choosing either of them(Lens or ext.flash) .

Thanks

[Octarine]

Originally Posted by shadowpartner It makes logical sense because in outdoors there is ample sunlight so there is no need for such a wide aperture and in indoors the flash can be used in place of the wider aperture.

Especially in ample sunlight a flash can be useful in backlight situations or to fill some shadows. Wider aperture offers shallow Depth of Field, an important element in composition - regardless whether outside or inside. But if you have not used actively DOF as composition element then I guess the flash is the better choice for you.

[shadowpartner]

I guess it's external flash for me then..i am satisfied with kit lens' DoF.
What flash you recommend at around/slightly more than the price of a 50mm?

[blue_quartz]

Originally Posted by shadowpartner I guess it's external flash for me then..i am satisfied with kit lens' DoF. What flash you recommend at around/slightly more than the price of a 50mm?

SB-400 goes for around the price of the 50mm f/1.8D lens. It's compact but it only does tilting up and down in one direction, not both. Upgrading to the SB-600 will offer you both for the price of around the new 35mm f/1.8 AFS lens, though it'll be larger as it uses 4 AA batteries instead of 2.

[Lomographer]

Then again Glenn, do you need the flash?

I feel if you truly need flash maybe not now?

Get the SB-900 as it can follow zooms up till 200mm. That's all you'll ever need.

Unless you need it urgently for like macro work, if not I suggest spending the money in buying more glass.

[night86mare]

Originally Posted by shadowpartner Not to mention,the 18-55mm already covers the 50mm so I am leaning more towards purchasing a flash. I would like to know which one would you choose and what may be the advantages and disadvantages of choosing either of them(Lens or ext.flash) . Thanks

if you have to ask, it means you have no pressing need because you don't seem to know what you need

if you have no pressing need for either, it means that it is just frivolous buying.

if it is just frivolous buying and you have a lot of cash to spare, good for you, no one is going to begrudge you for that, but if you don't.. then think twice, and wait until you have a pressing need, this is the best piece of advice anyone is going to give you.

[JacePhoto]

lens. If you have D80 and above, you could do more with CLS. But since u dont... might as well go for lens. Get the 50 mm.

[YoungPictoraider]

You are happy with your kit zoom lens and seem not need to upgrade. So keep going like this and perfect your skills. When you will be limited by your kit lens, it will be time to think of new lens. As suggested , 50mm/1,8 is a good prime lens to get one day so you can perform DOF training.

In the same way, for instance, IMHO, don't purchase an external flash as you intend to do : for its price only, and not for its very needed specifications. As you have never used your built-in flash, start to use it, know it well and perfectly, learn how to optimize its light because the well-used pop-up can provide much appreciate services. When you will be limited by it, it will be time to think of external flash.

Yours Truly,
YP.

[weychuan]

I will recommend getting a good flash first, that's what I did for myself

If budget can permits, go for SB-900, it comes with many other accessories (color filters and holder, diffuser dome), can be master unit for Nikon's creative lightning system, nice LCD screen and good user interface plus I think it is still the made in Japan set vs the SB-600 and others which are made in China.

[sjackal]

Originally Posted by night86mare if you have to ask, it means you have no pressing need because you don't seem to know what you need if you have no pressing need for either, it means that it is just frivolous buying. if it is just frivolous buying and you have a lot of cash to spare, good for you, no one is going to begrudge you for that, but if you don't.. then think twice, and wait until you have a pressing need, this is the best piece of advice anyone is going to give you.

I am thinking of the same. That is very good advice.

But if you are really thinking of expanding, you actually need both and more, and you won't be satisfied with a D60 either.

[aspenx]

Originally Posted by sjackal I am thinking of the same. That is very good advice. But if you are really thinking of expanding, you actually need both and more, and you won't be satisfied with a D60 either.

So he "needs" a new camera first actually.

[YoungPictoraider]

Originally Posted by weychuan I will recommend getting a good flash first, that's what I did for myself If budget can permits, go for SB-900, it comes with many other accessories (color filters and holder, diffuser dome), can be master unit for Nikon's creative lightning system, ...

There are many good reasons to buy the most expensive SB-900 but your recommandation to buy SB-900 and use it on TS's D60 as master unit means a second flash has to be purchased otherwise hot-shoe master SB-900 would have no slave flash to trigger...

Better alternative choice is to upgrade to D90 body whose built-in flash can trigger SB-600/SB-800/SB-900/SB-R200 wirelessly. Another less expensive issue is to buy the SU-800 transmitter (and not SB-900) as master unit with SB-600.

[Lomographer]

maybe if you need a pro flash

you can consider a second hand SB-80X, or SB-28?

[blue_quartz]

Originally Posted by aspenx So he "needs" a new camera first actually.

The BBB virus attacks!

I didn't feel a strong need to get a flash for my D90 immediately with its good ISO performance in low-light. I think it's easier to learn photography basics first from different lens, rather than diving into lighting know-how.

Interestingly as well, many people likes the "bokeh" effect of DSLRs, which is something harder to do in compact cameras. A 50mm f/1.8 lens will make it even easier still, if you're heading towards portraits.

Or perhaps you may want to be convinced with the 55-200mm lens and have a hand at telephoto lens?

[diediealsomustdive]

Guys you should give TS a break. It appears that TS is a relative newbie, and is looking to learn more about photography, and some of you say things like frivolous buying, don't know what you want, dah dah dah.

Maybe TS should have posted at newbie corner?

Either way, learning about whether you need a flash first or a new lens is a journey all went through at one point or another, unless there is sufficient cash to get flash and body and lens at the first instance.

TS - you should do the following:
- do a search on creative flash techniques and limitation of built-in flash, leave out the CLS part for now (too far ahead in the learning curve but if you are keen learner no harm - that's the ultimate flash techinique but be warned you could end up with 6 SB-900, he he.), understand what you are missing without an external flash, understand what is required to do bounced flash, guide number, etc. The built-in flash is already very mighty - it can do fill flash effectively most times. But when you're ready to go external flash, understand the GN and bounce capability, cause that's the primary difference between the various Nikon Speedlights (apart from CLS but that's another topic altogether) - at least for a relative newbie.
- do a search on how people use prime lens, and how a 50mm f/1.8 is used. Most like it for shallow DOF (if you are shooting kit you don't know what you're missing!), portrait lens focal length on DX, selective focusing, and the (perceived) higher resolution/sharpness, etc. All for a modest sum.
- ponder over which technique you want to go first, then decide accordingly.

SB-900 is probably too much at ~$700, big and heavy and complicated (but the best). SB-600 given it's capability (decent GN, tilt and swivel, it can be part of CLS but not the heart of it) vs limitation and price is probably the best buy for TS. SB-400 is for those who want an external flash and that's it, to get more light and occasional landscape mode bounce but with limited power (low GN) and no further expandability (not part of CLS). IMHO forget third party flash - and forget SB-400 it is quite a dead end for learning (not that is is not a good flash, it is, horses for courses).

50mm f/1.8 is an ideal learning lens to understand the capability of primes, composition and many other aspects. If you don't believe me put a masking tape on your kit lens at either 35mm or 50mm - force yourself to shot only at the focal length. You will be forced to move your feet and compose - you will learn the characteristics of each focal length quickly (as opposed to stand in place and zoom to get composition, like go wider instead of stepping back, the perspective will be different).

Enough said. Conclusions:
- if newbie ask newbie question at newbie forum, otherwise may get abused. But to me you're welcome here - all of us were newbie at one time or another.
- if buying flash, go no lower than SB-600, new or use. IMHO forget SB-900 for now, SB-800 could be ok for the size and price (second hand) but is also complicated.
- buy the 50mm f/1.8 - you'll need to manual focus - cos it sounds like you have a limited budget.
- save for the SB-600 (or its replacement)

[sjackal]

Originally Posted by diediealsomustdive Guys you should give TS a break. It appears that TS is a relative newbie, and is looking to learn more about photography, and some of you say things like frivolous buying, don't know what you want, dah dah dah. Enough said. Conclusions: - if newbie ask newbie question at newbie forum, otherwise may get abused. But to me you're welcome here - all of us were newbie at one time or another.

Errh I dont think anyone got abuse him lah dude, and I think Night86mare is actually giving him good advise to hold back the money and plan properly first.

[deepanshus]

Off track, but on lighter side, the way this thread has developed, reminds me of a nice anecdote

A guy wents in to buy in tampons for his wife, ended up buying a boat. Salesman convinced him, his weekend was anyways screwed why not he go out fishing!!

[diediealsomustdive]

Originally Posted by Lomographer maybe if you need a pro flash you can consider a second hand SB-80X, or SB-28?

Poor advise - both speedlights are not fully compatible with D60. TS will have to do manual or auto flash, no TTL.

[diediealsomustdive]

Originally Posted by deepanshus Off track, but on lighter side, the way this thread has developed, reminds me of a nice anecdote A guy wents in to buy in tampons for his wife, ended up buying a boat. Salesman convinced him, his weekend was anyways screwed why not he go out fishing!!

Yes, yes, yes!

Why buy 50mm f/1.8? Go for AFS 50mm f/1.4G! Err, better still AFD85mm f/1.4, sure won't regret one! Oh on your way there pick up a D3x as well....

[hanz170]

many people buy flash and use it occasssionally only, so for me buy lens lah.