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Thread: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

  1. #1

    Default Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    I read with utter surprise that copyright infringement is so 'LOOSE' amongst photographers in our photographic community.

    Someone uses your images & they still get away with it.

    Are you guys not going to make a stand & punish those break the code?

    Are you worried abt spending money on lawyers & only getting paper justice?


  2. #2
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by mo2 View Post

    Are you worried abt spending money on lawyers & only getting paper justice?

    i think the cost of time and spending on the lawyers to fight the case ... not worth it...

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by mo2 View Post
    I read with utter surprise that copyright infringement is so 'LOOSE' amongst photographers in our photographic community.

    Someone uses your images & they still get away with it.

    Are you guys not going to make a stand & punish those break the code?

    Are you worried abt spending money on lawyers & only getting paper justice?

    whats your point ? are you trying to draw blood on what happened recently ? first you wanted blood for people u charges low, and next u want blood for pple who infringes copyright ?

    next tell me, u do u want blood from kids who have rich parents and can afford them expensive gear ?
    Last edited by xziredmp; 3rd July 2009 at 12:20 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Are a part timer in photography then i can understand why it's not worth your while.

    If it's your ricebowl & you've worked hard at it, then you shld make a stand.
    If it's outright copyright infringement, the case is yours to win.

    If it's a organization that infringe your rights, there's BIG MONEY involved.
    With a right lawyer, he knows he can make money from it so neg a deal with him abt his fees.
    Lawyers are businessmen as well when it comes to opportunity.

    Sad to see that anyone can actually get away when they steal your pictures to use as their own.


  5. #5

    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by xziredmp View Post
    whats your point ? are you trying to draw blood on what happened recently ? first you wanted blood for people u charges low, and next u want blood for pple who infringes copyright ?

    next tell me, u do u want blood from kids who have rich parents and can afford them expensive gear ?
    Would you feel the same if it's your pictures they took?

    Would you feel the same having spent money, time, efforts in your photography to have someone claim credit for your works & even make money from them?

    Let's meet face to face to discuss ... i'll be happy to share my sentiments with you since i have some time to spare ... That's why i KAPO here for good of the photography industry.


  6. #6

    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Gotta go office ... Will catch up this thread later ... Cheers !!

    PS. This is a public forum, it's for sharing of thoughts isnt it ...

  7. #7

    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Every situation is different...let those who r involved settle the way they deemed fit

    Certain mistakes cannot be condone...however...live and let live

  8. #8

    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiere View Post
    Every situation is different...let those who r involved settle the way they deemed fit

    Certain mistakes cannot be condone...however...live and let live

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by mo2 View Post
    Are a part timer in photography then i can understand why it's not worth your while.

    If it's your ricebowl & you've worked hard at it, then you shld make a stand.
    If it's outright copyright infringement, the case is yours to win.

    If it's a organization that infringe your rights, there's BIG MONEY involved.
    With a right lawyer, he knows he can make money from it so neg a deal with him abt his fees.
    Lawyers are businessmen as well when it comes to opportunity.

    Sad to see that anyone can actually get away when they steal your pictures to use as their own.

    i too work for money, and too have to put food on the table. and i hope you do not assume anything when i not defending the previous TS.

    copyright infringement is serious and we all know it. yes. no qualms about it.

    put it this way. like i mentioned earlier. it could either be a mistake, or even if its intentional, he/she deserves to be educated the right way, den to smite with law and justice on everything that is wrong. i think everyone deserves a 2nd chance or even a 3rd chance if situation allows.

    i believe they didnt just get away, definately i believe theres some legal actions taken, just that we don't know about. but its not really our business ain't it ? probably unless someone updates me, i would probably just continue shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by mo2 View Post
    Would you feel the same if it's your pictures they took?

    Would you feel the same having spent money, time, efforts in your photography to have someone claim credit for your works & even make money from them?

    Let's meet face to face to discuss ... i'll be happy to share my sentiments with you since i have some time to spare ... That's why i KAPO here for good of the photography industry.

    well.. yes. i would feel infuriated if such a thing happened to me, but lets put it this way, if i am given a chance to meet the person and understand why is he doing that, probably instead of just smite him with a justice hammer, i might just take him in and teach him the ropes so that he learns the correct way in getting images he want.

    i am more known to be forgiving than just placing the justice hammer on anyone. i used to know of a friend's fiance, who goes around telling pple that they should just go jail because they just behaved weirdly in public, and guess what, he became alone and not much friends hang around him because of that.

    even if one commits a wrong, he/she deserve a chance in turning over don't they ?

    i would agree with lumiere on this round. "Live and Let Live" life needs to go on, and money needs to be made so food can be placed on the table.


    and put it this way. ONE MAN cannot change the ENTIRE photo industry here. like it or not. but i always believe that through proper education, we can more or less prevent what has happened, and improve on a better future.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Well Said ... 'xziredmp'

    I am not condemning anyone, nor am i stirring up another witch hunt.

    I just feel that it has to be touched on every now & then as a reminder.

    As for forgiving the accused .. i dont think i'll be that lucky if i ever do infringe on others works.

    That's why to date, i still dare not use music scores on my website.

    I cannot afford to have a copyright case against me.

    This said, we the serious ones in the industry have to involved in a support group for the goodwill of everyone. Not just say but never do.

    I am a member of WPAS and hopefully someday we can grow big enough to hv our own appointed lawyer to represent our members.



    I wonder whatever came out of previous cases as there was no mention, and hopefully no silly buggers out there think that they can get away with it.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Live and let live....

    When deciding on any actions, the ends must justify the means. What is the use of paper justice and the court awarding you the victory when the offender who infringes on your copyright has no means to pay for damages / when the court finds that there is no damages payable but purely gives an injunction / when the offender has the means to take this case all the way up to the Court of Appeal and rising your legal bill?

    sometimes it is just not worth the fight. A wise general chooses his battles wisely, knowing when to retreat and when to advance as well as when to commit his resources.

    But that being said, I do not condone on copyright infringement.....but what can I do?
    G

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    maybe someone can get IPOS to look into this?

    Its a tough world but its not fair to let these people get away with it.
    Don't brag about your accomplishments; Show us your future works.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    xziredmp, I understand where you're coming from. As you said correctly, 2nd chances must come with a penalty so that there is a lesson learnt. Whether it's a slap on the wrist or persecuting to the full extent of the law is for the parties involved to decide. To be frank, if it doesn't hurt, most people don't learn. I'm not saying that it applies fully in my case. But I also believe that if I didn't do anything, this mistake would be repeated again by the offending parties. I'm sorry, but the circumstances in my case is beyond some amateur photographers leeching pictures. So it's not just a matter of teaching them how to get images in the correct and legal way.

    I hate to say it, but you never know what it's like until your own images that you depend on for a living get leeched and someone else passes them off as their own work. I used to think - what's the big deal, just write a letter, warn them etc and move on. I certainly think otherwise now.

    It hurts us especially when we work our butts off to get the images, and someone passes not one, not two but an entire set of images as their own. Copyright infringement has a direct impact on us photographers/designers/artists etc. Anyway, since I've closed my original thread, the update is that I'm already speaking with the offending parties.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla60 View Post
    Live and let live....

    When deciding on any actions, the ends must justify the means. What is the use of paper justice and the court awarding you the victory when the offender who infringes on your copyright has no means to pay for damages / when the court finds that there is no damages payable but purely gives an injunction / when the offender has the means to take this case all the way up to the Court of Appeal and rising your legal bill?

    sometimes it is just not worth the fight. A wise general chooses his battles wisely, knowing when to retreat and when to advance as well as when to commit his resources.

    But that being said, I do not condone on copyright infringement.....but what can I do?
    Actually, legal means doesn't always have to involve damages in monetary terms. But you're absolutely correct about making sure the other party can pay before you decide on how you want to go about claiming damages

  15. #15

    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by knoxknocks View Post
    xziredmp, I understand where you're coming from. As you said correctly, 2nd chances must come with a penalty so that there is a lesson learnt. Whether it's a slap on the wrist or persecuting to the full extent of the law is for the parties involved to decide. To be frank, if it doesn't hurt, most people don't learn. I'm not saying that it applies fully in my case. But I also believe that if I didn't do anything, this mistake would be repeated again by the offending parties. I'm sorry, but the circumstances in my case is beyond some amateur photographers leeching pictures. So it's not just a matter of teaching them how to get images in the correct and legal way.

    I hate to say it, but you never know what it's like until your own images that you depend on for a living get leeched and someone else passes them off as their own work. I used to think - what's the big deal, just write a letter, warn them etc and move on. I certainly think otherwise now.

    It hurts us especially when we work our butts off to get the images, and someone passes not one, not two but an entire set of images as their own. Copyright infringement has a direct impact on us photographers/designers/artists etc. Anyway, since I've closed my original thread, the update is that I'm already speaking with the offending parties.
    I got 15k settlement from a freelance photographer whom didnt response my lawyer's letter till i finally decide to bring matter to court. I smsed him with my final offer to settle out of court & finally he responded.

    The infringement case was totally clearcut and if we ended up in court, it wld have been a heavier penalty for him.

    For a company that would have already profited from using the pictures that were infringed, you think a slap on the wrist or an apology letter wld be fair to the photographer?

    If its so easy, i would have pitched my sales to clients using other professional's works.

    Make a stand i say ....

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    well... seems like what i said didnt made it through either.

    make a stand or not doesn't matter, i would have to agree with knoxknocks comment here

    "making sure the other party can pay before you decide on how you want to go about claiming damages "

    make sure they can pay first... whats the point, when u open fire and the other party cant fire back, handicapped and time wasted.

    thing is sometimes. and my point is, mistakes do happen, and sometimes we need to understand why are they doing this rather.

    i am also a full time designer, and i must say, i have works copied from top head until bottom tail 1:1 replica and name changed, and what can i say ? nothing.... nothing i do will change the fact that the fellow copied my designs and paste it in his portfolio on a open community. (coroflot)

    Copyright Laws although have been taught in media schools, but they are not stressed or even reinforced. ask any media students they say the same thing.


    But anyway. those who know me, will know i am a very peaceful person, most of the time believe in giving chances and etc etc....

    i guess for Mr. knoxknocks case, besides going with a justice hammer, the next hardest thing u can do is.... speak to him with the bottom of your heart. Let him know how disappointed and angry you are with his actions, and the rest i guess i do not need to say. i know i used this approach while dealing with my junior designers, and it worked pretty well, wake up their ideas and proved effective. What i am providing is an alternative besides all the letters and court and etc etc... seriously sometimes in singaporean mindset, anything they cant settle or got too worked up, they most common thing they will ever say is "see u in court" "wait for my lawyer letter" "i sue u" personally i believe all these doesnt work on a long term perspective, but instead will cause so much hatred that i don't know, i mean speaking from the heart, once the fellow enters court, he is almost as good as banished, and super bad damage done, so unless someone wants to ruin that poor fellow.... well i've gt nothing to say.

    i suggestion is still a peaceful solution, and hope everyone is ok and fine. thats all. i hate to see photogs kill each other and wanting their heads on the table. seriously... even if u wanted to make a stand, also not at a expense of another photogs head or their family's rice on the table right ?

    peaceful solution i'd say...... give piece a chance.

    MM Lee said "I believe this is a honest mistake, and we all should learn from it, Life goes on, and we must continue to remain vigilant and remember to not be complacent about our homeland security"

    2 rupiahs worth...

  17. #17

    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    If only the law can be as lenient when we are called up to answer any summons.

    The judge will say ... You made an honest mistake, but there's still a little price to pay ...

    Enough said from me ... There'll also be copyright infringement it seems ...


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by mo2 View Post
    If only the law can be as lenient when we are called up to answer any summons.

    The judge will say ... You made an honest mistake, but there's still a little price to pay ...

    Enough said from me ... There'll also be copyright infringement it seems ...

    well.. despite many people commiting so many darn little traffic offenses and do not wish to pay, they will still think of 1001 crap reasons just to get away and not part their money right ?

    law can be lenient, but its all depends on the individual. right ?

    the judge if he knows or believes that you are repentant, most of the time, its a lighter sentence. no ?

    unless he commits a murder lah ! den he can forget it.

    intend or do not intend to copy, by right is WRONG ! no qualms. and no need to fight it out. but what needs to be done is how we can help this poor fellow and led him to the correct path. like i said One cannot change the industry, but WE can educated and lead many others so slowly it will influence and affect the industry. Its like a poison taking place.

    ok. a side note. Christian beliefs that Salvation is created for those who have Sinned right ? thou i am not a christian, but i have good and enough knowledge to be one, so thing is that, despite people making lots of mistakes, instead of blaming them, help them see what you are facing, and tell them straight in the face, let them feel that you feel, and they will know what you meant and they will know whats good for them.

    Show them the way to a better person, than to damn a talented one. Put it this way, in a positive note. He can copy all he want. Feed him with all the infomation in the world. Will he be able to digest it all ?

    he wants to be like mr Knoxknocks. will he even be as good as him even he show works that doesnt belong to him ? even if today, the news havent been shared, he can get the job, but will he deliver ?

    the issue now is "He can copy all he want. but can he deliver what he promise ? " cause eventually, when he cant... people will know, he is all talks with air and one wedding ruined. and he is as good as getting a bad reputation right ?



    mo2, i know your well intentions for this industry, and i respect you in doing that, but since we all share the same piece of land here in singapore. lets come up with something to help everyone as a whole no ??

    PPAS and WPAS or WPN or whatever is known in singapore, but what i hope is all these assocs can really help and EDUCATE first rather den fight for their members.... what all of them need to do is help the community....

  19. #19

    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by xziredmp View Post
    ...
    MM Lee said "I believe this is a honest mistake, and we all should learn from it, Life goes on, and we must continue to remain vigilant and remember to not be complacent about our homeland security"

    2 rupiahs worth...
    Case in point...look at what happened to those people involved in MSK's case? I don't disagree with you - I'm glad you see the good in all things. Perhaps I'm more cynical.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Getting Away From Copyright Infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by xziredmp View Post
    ...but what needs to be done is how we can help this poor fellow and led him to the correct path. like i said One cannot change the industry, but WE can educated and lead many others so slowly it will influence and affect the industry. Its like a poison taking place.....
    I think we're missing the point here - now the perpertrator is the victim? Stealing is wrong as you said. How much education do you need to bring that point across given that it's quite common sense? The person may have had his reason for doing it even though he/she knows it's wrong. But we're not talking about kids here. They've made the conscious decision to do it.

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