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Thread: Announcement of Nikon D70 DSLR

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernLights
    Whoever gets a larger market share and have larger funding for R&D. Then, a full frame prosumer DSLR is a target not too far away. Then the WA's will truely behave as wides and not some 3/4 part used glass. . Everyone paid for 100% of the glass.

    That's how I see it since Canon has not come out with DX lens. The others like Tamron are just trying to ride on the temporary development phase. Even Sigma's lastest 12-24 lens will not be digital...
    It is not that far way, but it is both a matter of cost and competition. Even if the D200 comes out in a year's time, I (who owns a 12-24 DX) would have allegedly wasted less money (via a drop in valuation) than a Canon user who had switched from a D60 to 10D in 9 months!

    So you are saying that Canon should still make people wait for FF to come to town (at an affordable price like the 10D is now), while they stubbornly refuse to make an equivalent to the DX lenses, depriving the existing digital users OEM WA lenses? Wow, Canon must then be a cult then, with its followers still praising them even when Canon inflicts difficulties and pains on them... IMO, the EF-S is a lot worse than DX lenses: you cannot use them on any other existing camera in the whole world, digital or otherwise.

    Sigma, Tamron and other 3rd party lens makers ride a different business model. They MUST make their products as widely usable as possible else they will get no sales. Their quality is usually lower and acceptable by non pros but rarely by pros (else Canon and Nikon cannot sell their own lenses).

    As for Sigma's 12-24, don't get your hopes up too high. Many Canon users will flock to it as there is no other alternative, but the quality is not confirmed, the large threadless front end is a pain. If it was so easy, why can't Canon come out with something like that?
    Last edited by Watcher; 10th December 2003 at 03:22 PM.

  2. #62
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    One point: I wonder why so many Caonites must gate crash Nikon announcement and disparage about Nikon. I don't see that happening with Canon announcements. It seems to me that Canon users feel the need to put down others in order to elevate themselves...

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    One point: I wonder why so many Caonites must gate crash Nikon announcement and disparage about Nikon. I don't see that happening with Canon announcements. It seems to me that Canon users feel the need to put down others in order to elevate themselves...
    Watcher : Please do not stereotype Canon users. I do not feel the need to elevate myself based on equipment but rather on the images that I hope am capable of producing.

    P.S (to all). This is not a Canon/Nikon comparison thread. I'll let the manufacturers compete with themselves not the users.
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  4. #64

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    hmm... where's the S, C, M switch?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher

    As for lenses "all optimised for a FF", it is just an excuse not to make the adjustment.
    By 'optimised for a FF', i mean the top end lenses were created to be sharp corner to corner on a FF, wide open. Leaving out that kind of optimisation can easily cut the cost of the lens by half. For something like a 300/2.8, we're talking about savings of S$4000 and above.

    In other words, if i paid big bucks for that kind of glass (esp the corners), i want to use ALL of it.

    35mm FF *is* the holy grail, despite what you may think. 35mm provides the most flexibility of all formats, and the widest support in quality glass and accessories. It is the optimum balance point between maximum quality and usability.

    i'm pretty sure a Nikon pro-spec FF will sell very well, even with a price tag of up to S$20k.

  6. #66

    Default Congrats to Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    Sigh,
    There is no reason why all DX lenses and the AF-S/AF-D lenses not to work. These would cover what many would buy. Why would Nikon kick themselves with support lower than D100? . The DX lens would also work on all digital bodies as they have already planned for this.

    Unlike Canon with its EF-S...
    Anyway congrats to Nikon...

    Canon users came here to discuss the new D70, congratulate and to discuss objectively on the FLM but you started the EF-S thingy first.... remember??

    It's the manufacturers and their strategy to earn money from us....we're all consumers...let's hope we all enjoy the equipment they spend so much time on R&D, whilst we spend our hard-earned money on the 300D, D70, D2H, 1D, E1, iST' D, A1 Dimage whatever...

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince
    Watcher : Please do not stereotype Canon users. I do not feel the need to elevate myself based on equipment but rather on the images that I hope am capable of producing.

    P.S (to all). This is not a Canon/Nikon comparison thread. I'll let the manufacturers compete with themselves not the users.
    "so many Caonites " is not stereotyping; I did not say "all Canonites" or just "Canonites". Check the number of Canon users here, of which how many had offer their congratulations? I rest my case.
    Last edited by Watcher; 13th December 2003 at 12:44 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST1100
    By 'optimised for a FF', i mean the top end lenses were created to be sharp corner to corner on a FF, wide open. Leaving out that kind of optimisation can easily cut the cost of the lens by half. For something like a 300/2.8, we're talking about savings of S$4000 and above.

    In other words, if i paid big bucks for that kind of glass (esp the corners), i want to use ALL of it.

    35mm FF *is* the holy grail, despite what you may think. 35mm provides the most flexibility of all formats, and the widest support in quality glass and accessories. It is the optimum balance point between maximum quality and usability.

    i'm pretty sure a Nikon pro-spec FF will sell very well, even with a price tag of up to S$20k.
    Your "optimised for a FF" may be true. But that said, (traditional) lenses for FF on digital is a tricky, difficult and expensive process. Kudos to Canon to managed to do it. But the price is very high. The reason is why the 4/3 came out with its "optimized lenses" which supposedly made the light exiting the rear lens element parallel instead.

    Don't forget, even when on film, many lenses are checked to see if the corners are vignetted. So you are just defending the need for your existing expensive lenses (300/f2.8 vs 300/f4.0) right? But they still can be used!

    Now, as I had said before, when producing a product, is a matter of compromise between features, cost and usability. If Nikon comes up with a 8-11MP 1.5x FLM at a price that is say, half of 1Ds, isn't it better than for most people ($$$ as well as the fact that they don't need really top end lenses), rather than the need to use the corners? Especially, when the same lens can be used on both FF and 1.5x FLM bodies? There is then no issue about support of lenses. In fact, it is more optimized on 1.5x FLM as only the "best" part of the image is taken. The lenses can now be cheaper or that cheaper lenses can be used which seems to make you uncomfortable...

    As for a hypothetical 20k Nikon FF, yes, I'm sure they will sell. But I have yet to see Nikon make the user spend that kind of money when a cheaper and easier solution exist. If there is need to go high resolution, etc. use a medium format digital back. That is why MF and 35mm film cameras co-existed after all.
    Last edited by Watcher; 13th December 2003 at 12:42 PM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernLights
    Anyway congrats to Nikon...

    Canon users came here to discuss the new D70, congratulate and to discuss objectively on the FLM but you started the EF-S thingy first.... remember??
    The issue is this: The discussion on Nikon's FLM is not related to Canon in the first place right? Show me (besides offspring and your own belated) congratulations that the other Canon users give.

    The other person was asking compatibility with existing AF-S/AF-D lenses and the new DX kit lens for the D70. I just pointed out (as you have quoted my article) that 1) it is compatible with AF-S/AF-D and that the new DX lens is compatible to existing DX lens in contrast to what Canon has done. That was the original poster's fear.
    Last edited by Watcher; 13th December 2003 at 01:04 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    "so many Caonites " is not stereotyping; I did not say "all Canonites" or just "Canonites". Check the number of Canon users here, of which how many had offer their congratulations? I rest my case.
    I don't see any Nikon users congradulating Olympus when they launched the E-1 either or Pentax when they launched the *IST-D (or when Canon launched the 300D for that matter). Are Nikon users just as ungracious? Does everyone have to congradulate the manufacturer when they come out with something new? Manufacturers develop new products and are in it for the money and the limelight (more limelight equate to more sales which equates to more earnings for them). Two Canon users out of thousands does not equate "so many" either. I rest my case as well.
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