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Thread: Why f5.6 aperture, 1/60s shutter speed with flash for indoor gives correct exposure?

  1. #1
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    Default Why f5.6 aperture, 1/60s shutter speed with flash for indoor gives correct exposure?

    Hi all,

    My question is as above (subject).

    Why is it for indoor shots, we can use an aperture of f/5.6, shutter speed of 1/60 (or 1/40) with flash gives us correct exposure? And, how we define indoors. Some places are indoors, but the lights are pretty bright... can it still work?

    What if my lens has only f/6.3? Or i want to step down....

    I am not sure if I've got any ideas or concepts wrong.

    Please advice.

    Thanks.

  2. #2

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    How do you define 'correct exposure' in the first place? As long as it's not too bright or too dark, right?

    You can get 'correct' exposure even with flash at 1/60 at f8...it also depends on the distance between the subject and the flash.

    I prefer to use flash indoors no matter what lighting conditions it is because the flash will help correct whatever colour cast the house lights may have on the picture. Most house lights are flourscent lights, meaning they have a slight greenish tint if uncorrected.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by pethidine
    Hi all,

    My question is as above (subject).

    Why is it for indoor shots, we can use an aperture of f/5.6, shutter speed of 1/60 (or 1/40) with flash gives us correct exposure? And, how we define indoors. Some places are indoors, but the lights are pretty bright... can it still work?

    What if my lens has only f/6.3? Or i want to step down....

    I am not sure if I've got any ideas or concepts wrong.

    Please advice.

    Thanks.
    not necezzary ..... it will depend on the lighting n alzo the diztance btw the subject n u ( like wat Ah Pao had said ) .....


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    Hmm.. So what is the guide for taking pix indoors?

    It seems to me that most people (not all) uses the f/5.6, 1/60 with flash settings for wedding shots (tea ceromony and dinner).

    Using P mode, my camera will always use the largest aperture .. which may cause some of my shots to be "softer".

    Please advice.

  5. #5
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    I am quite confused by your question.

    Are you trying to say you are told to use f/5.6 and 1/60sec with flash for indoor?

    If I get you correctly, there is not "standard" setting.

    You can shot at f/2.8 and 1/250sec if your flash is powerful enough.

    You can shot at f/22 and 1/2sec if your hand is steady enough.

    It really depends on the situation and what effect you wanna achieved.

    Think it's time you hit the book to understand more.

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    You are probably told these two settings becoz...
    1) 1/60 eliminates most handshakes. Unless you have very nervous hands
    2) f5.6 is fairly sharp. DOF is fairly wide.
    3) Your flash if its auto and has TTL will compensate for correct exposure
    You will end up with a fairly sharp image with subject lit up (depending how far or how powerful your flash is) MOST of the time.

    Is this a rule!?
    No way! There are many other things to consider as well (eg do you want the background to be bright, how low is the ambient lighting, are the subjects moving or stationary, etc etc etc).

    If its a rule, then photography is no longer and art form.



    Quote Originally Posted by pethidine
    Hmm.. So what is the guide for taking pix indoors?

    It seems to me that most people (not all) uses the f/5.6, 1/60 with flash settings for wedding shots (tea ceromony and dinner).

    Using P mode, my camera will always use the largest aperture .. which may cause some of my shots to be "softer".

    Please advice.

  7. #7

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    this may help. its actually a tried and tested formula from the old birds. heres why.

    Assuming a flash with GN 30 (ISO 100 at 28mm), and taking the formula:
    f stop = GN/dist, f5.6 yields a dist of 6m, i.e. at 5.6, the flash with a GN of 30 will be able to correctly expose an object up to 6M away, thats 19.8 feet. considering the working distance for table shots etc, that a very safe f-stop. note that the problem of over exposure for shoter distances at this aperture is avoided by the flash sensors (for auto flashes) sending out a signal to quench the flash. the older auto flashes had a sensor that would quench flash output once sufficient exposure is detected.

    the shutter speed is probably back in the days of sync speeds of around 1/60 to 1/90.

    hope this helps!

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    Quote Originally Posted by binbeto

    You can shot at f/2.8 and 1/250sec if your flash is powerful enough.
    This really depends on your camera doesn't it? Not all cameras have a flash sync speed of 1/250 rite?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pethidine
    Hmm.. So what is the guide for taking pix indoors?

    It seems to me that most people (not all) uses the f/5.6, 1/60 with flash settings for wedding shots (tea ceromony and dinner).

    Using P mode, my camera will always use the largest aperture .. which may cause some of my shots to be "softer".

    Please advice.
    When you shoot in P mode, (if I am not wrong) you camera automatically chooses one of the larger aperatures and sets the flash sync speed to 1/60 (in low light conditions, but this really depends on the flash sync speed of your camera. What do you use?)

    At f/5.6 and 1/60, this may not be the "correct exposure" but this is the best value that your camera can acheive without external help (ie without flash). Thats where the flash comes in. The flash will output the required amount of light to compensate for the exposure. You have to be careful here cos if you use a built in flash, the output might be insufficient to compensate for the underexposure. This will of cos result in an underexposed shot.

    With the new TTL technologies, you are able to choose the DOF that you desire (ie you can choose at which aperature to shoot from without worry of whether the flash can compensate, of cos this is still subject to the range of the flash unit itself).

    Try shooting in aperature priorty or manual modes. It will give you more control over your aperature (in your case you claim that f/5.6 gives you a soft shots. Use aperature priorty, set to the desired aperature size and let the flash compensate. Best to use an external flash unit.
    Last edited by coke21; 1st December 2003 at 10:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coke21
    This really depends on your camera doesn't it? Not all cameras have a flash sync speed of 1/250 rite?
    But of course. You can even syn higher if your camera system support it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GitS
    this may help. its actually a tried and tested formula from the old birds. heres why.

    Assuming a flash with GN 30 (ISO 100 at 28mm), and taking the formula:
    f stop = GN/dist, f5.6 yields a dist of 6m, i.e. at 5.6, the flash with a GN of 30 will be able to correctly expose an object up to 6M away, thats 19.8 feet. considering the working distance for table shots etc, that a very safe f-stop. note that the problem of over exposure for shoter distances at this aperture is avoided by the flash sensors (for auto flashes) sending out a signal to quench the flash. the older auto flashes had a sensor that would quench flash output once sufficient exposure is detected.

    the shutter speed is probably back in the days of sync speeds of around 1/60 to 1/90.

    hope this helps!
    Hmm.. this is what I want to know. Actually, what I was thinking is that why people told me that the mentioned settings works when we need to "calculate" the exposure depending on the ambient lightings.

    Next question, if I use Aperture priority indoors, definetly get low shutter speed... thus hand shake.. any tips or tricks?

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pethidine
    Hmm.. this is what I want to know. Actually, what I was thinking is that why people told me that the mentioned settings works when we need to "calculate" the exposure depending on the ambient lightings.

    Next question, if I use Aperture priority indoors, definetly get low shutter speed... thus hand shake.. any tips or tricks?

    Thanks.
    You can use P mode or M mode to overcome this.

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    I will always use manual mode (for even the flash) if the lighting conditions are fairly constant. This will elminate the metering giving the wrong exposure due to the subject's clothings

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by pethidine
    Next question, if I use Aperture priority indoors, definetly get low shutter speed... thus hand shake.. any tips or tricks?

    Thanks.
    the solution is therfore to use the lowest shutter speed that is confortable for you. this may range from 1/15 to 1/60. just remember, the slower the shutter speed, the more ambient light is captured.

    its always useful to check whats the ambient exposure indoors even if you are not going to use it, that way you'll know what the resultant image will look like. for e.g, you may get 1/2 sec at f5.6. shooting at 1/30 @ 5.6 with flash will yield a background that is dimmer, i.e. 2 stops darker than perceived by your eyes.

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    I think F5.6 1/60secs is a "rough" guide/settings to get an OK shot.
    Most of the time I try to set that as my default and then I tweak it from there.

    Just my 2cents worth
    Confidence is thinking you'll be Champions, arrogance is stating it.

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    have to bear in mind the lighting conditions. f5.6, 1/60s could result in overexposed pics, e.g. during an indoor fashion show due to the spotlights.

  17. #17

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    actually f5.6 1/30 coupled with "whatever mode of flash" feels more "standard" for those "indoor functions".
    at least 4 me

    u can try it too

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    Can i put it in this way.

    If when i meter my scene in Av, with aperture at f/5.6, the shutter speed computed is below 1/60, then I can safely use the f/5.6, 1/60sec with flash settings. This allows me to get the subject correctly exposed (using the flash as primary light) as long as the subject is within the range of the flash.

    If when i meter my scene in Av, with aperture at f/5.6, the shutter speed computed is ABOVE 1/60, using the settings, will result in overexposed picture.

    Therefore, there is not fix rule of what to use, and the above mentioned settings is just a basic (and proven) guideline used by some photographer.

    OT:
    When i meter a daylight scene, and later underexpose the scene by about 4 stops, with a flash lighting the subject, I should get those "taking pictures in the evening" feeling rite? The object should comes out properly exposes in this case, but not the surrounding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pethidine
    Can i put it in this way.

    If when i meter my scene in Av, with aperture at f/5.6, the shutter speed computed is below 1/60, then I can safely use the f/5.6, 1/60sec with flash settings. This allows me to get the subject correctly exposed (using the flash as primary light) as long as the subject is within the range of the flash.

    If when i meter my scene in Av, with aperture at f/5.6, the shutter speed computed is ABOVE 1/60, using the settings, will result in overexposed picture.

    Therefore, there is not fix rule of what to use, and the above mentioned settings is just a basic (and proven) guideline used by some photographer.

    OT:
    When i meter a daylight scene, and later underexpose the scene by about 4 stops, with a flash lighting the subject, I should get those "taking pictures in the evening" feeling rite? The object should comes out properly exposes in this case, but not the surrounding?
    In your first scenario, the exposure will be correct if and only if your flash is powerful enough to compensate for the underexposure and it is within your flash range.

    In your second scenario, that will not happen cos in Av mode the appropriate shutter speed will be computed for f/5.6 for a correct exposure unless you have manaully set your EVs. Basically in Av and Tv modes, you will automatically get correct exposure unless the lighting conditions are really bad. in your case, shutter speeds of above 1/60 is unlikely but in the event that of ample light, you camera will just set the shutter to 1/125 (for example) and that will be the correct exposure.

    For your OT scenario, yah generally you should get what you mentioned. Taking into consideration that your flash is powerful enough and subject is within the flash range.


    BTW, what camera do you use? Digital?
    Last edited by coke21; 10th December 2003 at 09:30 AM.

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    coke21 and pethidine,

    with regards to the second scenerio, good that coke21 asked what camera pethidine is using because then we can know the flash sync speed of the camera... it might very well be a poor 1/60 thus leading to overexposure at f5.6... and to shoot at those settings would require a nd filter to decrease the light into the lens. or to stop down the apperture, resulting in larger dof.

    the camera may compute to 1/125 shutter if that is POSSIBLE (on nikon F80 that coke21 uses). there are cameras that have flash sync of only 1/60...(the cheaper cameras)

    so ultimately, pethidine, you have to tell us what camera you are using or more importantly what is the flash sync speed... because its pertinent to the questions asked... i suspect its 1/60 only.

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