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Thread: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

  1. #1
    Senior Member limwhow's Avatar
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    Default Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Good Day,

    I am very new to ClubSnap.
    I have been roaming the forums and discussions for the past week and have been enlightened in many ways by the much more experienced members of the club.
    I have been taking photos since I was a teenager on a very old Olympus SLR, reading old Michael Freeman books. But I never dived further until I got a Canon 350D years ago, subsequently upgrading to a 400D with a kit lens.
    Digital photography intrigued me, but I had difficulties taking sharp and adequately exposed pictures indoors without flash (e.g. when I was Tibet shooting the interior of the very dark monasteries back in 2007).
    Recently, my camera man recommended a 5DMkII with a 24-70 f2.8L. So far I found it far exceeds my older bodies in terms of speed and light sensitivity.

    I would like to ask all the experienced members for your advice in taking indoor pictures under dim light (candle light, but sometimes with sunlight shining through) wihtout flash, of say, the monks chanting in the monasteries.

    Once again, my sincere thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Hi limwhow,

    welcome to CS.

    In such a case, you'd need high ISO capable camera with a fast lens (look at the primes) they are much faster than the zoom lenses. I.e. f1.4 prime vs a f2.8 zoom

    Practise a lil at night and you'll understand better.
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

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    Senior Member Galdor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Hello...welcome.
    Minolta. Konica Minolta. Sony

  4. #4

    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Welcome limwhow,

    Do consider a full frame camera, eg 5DMkI, D700 for high ISO capable shooting w/ minimum noise

    Also, prime lens w/ big aperture f1.2 or 1.4

    Lastly, a good tripod is the best solution for indoor shoot w/o flash,
    if the above two options are not available

    Hope it helps !

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    Senior Member jtsky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Welcome to CS family!

  6. #6
    Senior Member limwhow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Thank you all for your advice!

    I do find my 5DMkII a much more sensitive camera than the 400D I was using.
    And somehow even as I jam up the ISO to about 3200 or even 6400, the noise was not as bad as 400D at 1600.

    Using a flash is always a good idea. Problem is, sometimes inside these historical monasteries, the use of flash is not wlecomed, and I guess may also negate the effect of natural lighting.

    Michael & horizon_grazer, you are both right about the prime lenses. I like the prime 50mm 1.4. Only thing is not so sharp at up to 1.8. So I usually use it at 2.0.

    What are your views about, say, 17-40 f4.0 or a 16-35 f2.8?
    Do these give you all good results in composition as a wide angle lens?

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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Welcome to CS!

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    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Quote Originally Posted by limwhow View Post
    Thank you all for your advice!

    I do find my 5DMkII a much more sensitive camera than the 400D I was using.
    And somehow even as I jam up the ISO to about 3200 or even 6400, the noise was not as bad as 400D at 1600.

    Using a flash is always a good idea. Problem is, sometimes inside these historical monasteries, the use of flash is not wlecomed, and I guess may also negate the effect of natural lighting.

    Michael & horizon_grazer, you are both right about the prime lenses. I like the prime 50mm 1.4. Only thing is not so sharp at up to 1.8. So I usually use it at 2.0.

    What are your views about, say, 17-40 f4.0 or a 16-35 f2.8?
    Do these give you all good results in composition as a wide angle lens?
    first of all, welcome to Clubsnap!
    You sound quite experienced
    50mm f/1.4 should be a damn sharp lens. Probably the thin Depth of Field confused you into thinking it's not sharp? If your subject is far away (near infinity), you should get very sharp results.

    17-40 only goes up to max f/4, which MAY not be fast enough for your usage, I'm not sure.
    16-35 f/2.8 sounds like quite a nice wide-angle range (and pretty fast too) for a full-frame DSLR like the 5DmkII.
    Exploring! :)

  9. #9
    Senior Member limwhow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    ZerocoolAstra,

    Yah, DOF of 50 f1.4 at 1.4 is really shallow. Will go at it from further away and try.
    Tired the 17-40. Really not too bad, hor? But f4.0 lah, as you rightfully pointed out. Me, I'm a sucker for wide wide aperture. Haha!
    16-35 f2.8 is really exciting, but damn expensive >$4k.
    Experienced? No lah, dare not say that. I'm still learning. Thanks a lot!

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    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Quote Originally Posted by limwhow View Post
    ZerocoolAstra,

    Yah, DOF of 50 f1.4 at 1.4 is really shallow. Will go at it from further away and try.
    Tired the 17-40. Really not too bad, hor? But f4.0 lah, as you rightfully pointed out. Me, I'm a sucker for wide wide aperture. Haha!
    16-35 f2.8 is really exciting, but damn expensive >$4k.
    Experienced? No lah, dare not say that. I'm still learning. Thanks a lot!
    wide-angle lenses usually have a fairly deep DOF due to their short focal length, so getting a fast wide-angle lens won't really give you beautiful bokeh like with a portrait lens. F/4 seems ok for me. At least the lens won't weigh (and cost) a bomb.
    For dark environments, a tripod is most useful, followed by high-ISO capability or Image Stablization.
    Exploring! :)

  11. #11
    Senior Member limwhow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Yeah, I think using a wide angle lens, my purpose would be simlpy to capture the landscape or the interior of a building. Bokeh would be of little importance here as I would concur.
    Today I took your advice and snaped at about 10-15m away with 50mm at 1.8. The background about up to 20m (that was the max cos it was blocked by this building abut 20m away) was quite sharp, as well as the focussed subject. But from around 6-7m onwards towards myself, the parts are blurred. I need to try even further as you suggested nead infinity.
    I am learning how to post the photos. Slowly I will get one or two of these up for your comments. Thanks.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Welcome!

  13. #13
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Quote Originally Posted by limwhow View Post
    Yeah, I think using a wide angle lens, my purpose would be simlpy to capture the landscape or the interior of a building. Bokeh would be of little importance here as I would concur.
    Today I took your advice and snaped at about 10-15m away with 50mm at 1.8. The background about up to 20m (that was the max cos it was blocked by this building abut 20m away) was quite sharp, as well as the focussed subject. But from around 6-7m onwards towards myself, the parts are blurred. I need to try even further as you suggested nead infinity.
    I am learning how to post the photos. Slowly I will get one or two of these up for your comments. Thanks.
    if you're trying to take photos of dark interiors, my suggestion is still a wide angle lens.
    17-40 f/4L is the way to go. Of course you'll need tripod for stablisation, unless you pump up the ISO really high.

    for 5DmkII, 17-40L, tripod....
    Exploring! :)

  14. #14
    Senior Member limwhow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    if you're trying to take photos of dark interiors, my suggestion is still a wide angle lens.
    17-40 f/4L is the way to go. Of course you'll need tripod for stablisation, unless you pump up the ISO really high.

    for 5DmkII, 17-40L, tripod....
    Yupe, would seriously consider getting a wide angle for interior with low lighting and no flash.
    The 17-40 is f4. 16-35 is f2.8. Probably the latter would serve a better function in low light condition.
    Would wait until I am ready then go ahead.
    Thanks for sharing.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Hi limwhow, read your replies to my thread about the peninsular shop. Anyways if you want a wide angle for your 5DM2, you can get the 17-40mm L cos it's really a lot more worth it than the 16-35mm L because if you need to use it in low light, just push up your ISO(keep it below 2000 max.) it's really more worthwhile to get it because the difference in the f stops won't make so much of a difference. Alternatively, you can get the tokina 10-17mm because you can use it on your 5DM2 at 15mm onwards and best still, you can mount it to your 400D to get the fisheye effect at 10mm and the wide angle effect at 17mm equivalent to the 17mm on the 5DM2 w/o the full frame so on the 5DM2 it's also wide angle only that you're limited to 15mm-17mm and you dont have the 40mm but truly worth the money spent!

  16. #16
    Senior Member limwhow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Quote Originally Posted by Wackyzacky View Post
    Hi limwhow, read your replies to my thread about the peninsular shop. Anyways if you want a wide angle for your 5DM2, you can get the 17-40mm L cos it's really a lot more worth it than the 16-35mm L because if you need to use it in low light, just push up your ISO(keep it below 2000 max.) it's really more worthwhile to get it because the difference in the f stops won't make so much of a difference. Alternatively, you can get the tokina 10-17mm because you can use it on your 5DM2 at 15mm onwards and best still, you can mount it to your 400D to get the fisheye effect at 10mm and the wide angle effect at 17mm equivalent to the 17mm on the 5DM2 w/o the full frame so on the 5DM2 it's also wide angle only that you're limited to 15mm-17mm and you dont have the 40mm but truly worth the money spent!
    Many a thanks, Wackyzacky.
    I have, unfortunately, just happened to deplete my wallet reserve a little.
    Slowly slowly, I will definitely ease my way into a wide angle. And when I do so, I will definitely take into consideration all that you have listed.

  17. #17
    Senior Member limwhow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Quote Originally Posted by Wackyzacky View Post
    Hi limwhow, read your replies to my thread about the peninsular shop. Anyways if you want a wide angle for your 5DM2, you can get the 17-40mm L cos it's really a lot more worth it than the 16-35mm L because if you need to use it in low light, just push up your ISO(keep it below 2000 max.) it's really more worthwhile to get it because the difference in the f stops won't make so much of a difference. Alternatively, you can get the tokina 10-17mm because you can use it on your 5DM2 at 15mm onwards and best still, you can mount it to your 400D to get the fisheye effect at 10mm and the wide angle effect at 17mm equivalent to the 17mm on the 5DM2 w/o the full frame so on the 5DM2 it's also wide angle only that you're limited to 15mm-17mm and you dont have the 40mm but truly worth the money spent!
    Hey, you are quite well-versed, I realised.
    Go ahead, I would strongly suggest that you join this month's Clubsnap photo competition. The theme is a tough one 'Rebound and Rejoice'. Dead line is 15th Aug 12:00 midnight.
    Not bad. I saw the winning photos for the last month's competition themed 'Yellow' at the Front Page, and all are deserving of good comments.
    'Rebound and Rejoice' is not easy to interpret. There is a strong element of what I would interpret as spiritual joyousness in the word 'Rejoice' and for 'Rebound', I take it as purely what it means - rebound, bounce, bounce, bounce, and bounce back or bounce up with joy. Challenging, this theme. I can't wait to see what everyone would come up with.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Quote Originally Posted by limwhow View Post
    Hey, you are quite well-versed, I realised.
    Go ahead, I would strongly suggest that you join this month's Clubsnap photo competition. The theme is a tough one 'Rebound and Rejoice'. Dead line is 15th Aug 12:00 midnight.
    Not bad. I saw the winning photos for the last month's competition themed 'Yellow' at the Front Page, and all are deserving of good comments.
    'Rebound and Rejoice' is not easy to interpret. There is a strong element of what I would interpret as spiritual joyousness in the word 'Rejoice' and for 'Rebound', I take it as purely what it means - rebound, bounce, bounce, bounce, and bounce back or bounce up with joy. Challenging, this theme. I can't wait to see what everyone would come up with.
    Hahaha thanks for your compliments. Just wanted to let you know that it'll really be more worth it to get the tokina 10-17mm as you can use it on both your cameras. Also, it's significantly cheaper than the 17-40mm L. Anyways I have a 17-40L and IMHO, the 40mm isn't very "cool" to use. I usually keep it at 17-20mm because anything nearer would not have the bending effect on the FF body at the corners. Furthermore, the tokina will allow the effect of the 17mm canon lens on the FF, on the 400D since its a 1.6x crop factor and the tokina's 17is at the 1.6x so there's no conversion. Whereas if you get the 17-40mm L, when you mount it on the 400D, it'll be at 27.2mm(17mm x 1.6) so you dont get the full benefit of the lens!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    oh ya, where is the the contest thing? as in how to submit, etc..
    hahah

  20. #20
    Senior Member limwhow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good day to all, I'm new to ClubSnap

    Quote Originally Posted by Wackyzacky View Post
    oh ya, where is the the contest thing? as in how to submit, etc..
    hahah
    Go to Gallery. It's there.
    Or do a search on Clubsnap competition.

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