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Thread: All about filters - GND

  1. #21

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by jaRv1s View Post
    Lee filters GND per piece 146... Wide Angle Adaptor Ring (thinner) bought from HK less than 100... kit also bought from HK cos the dealer in SG asked me "why everyone taking Starter Kit you have to get Professional Kit?" ask them whether can order or not they also like don't want to take my business... say you can place order but we can't promise you when you could get your things... thanks to them i paid slightly more than usual to get others from HK...

    about vignetting, Lee filters having lower chance because the filter is 4 inches wide... with Wide Angle adaptor ring i would say your risk is minimized...

    if you want to take Cokin, i know people bought the Cokin P holder and cut it to fit one filter only... they said in this way you're less likely to get vignetting with Cokin P...
    Wow one piece filter is SGD146? So expensive... Ha ha, maybe I'm just too lacking in knowledge.

    anyway, any user could suggest what are the most particular thing too look after in taking care of the filter (So can use for longer period...) I presume it is not much different then any UV filter, in terms of maintenance?
    Last edited by Shen siung; 17th June 2009 at 01:40 PM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member giantcanopy's Avatar
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    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by Shen siung View Post
    Wow one piece filter is SGD146? So expensive... Ha ha, maybe I'm just too lacking in knowledge.

    anyway, any user could suggest what are the most particular think too look after in taking care of the filter (So can use for longer period...) I presume it is not much different then any UV filter, in terms of maintenance?
    The more expensive filters are the ones that are more/totally color neutral
    Goes up with sizes of filters as well.

    I think basically do not fall or contuse them cause they can break / chip

    I keep a filter wallet to house them in nice pockets

    Ryan

  3. #23

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by jaRv1s View Post
    Lee filters GND per piece 146... Wide Angle Adaptor Ring (thinner) bought from HK less than 100... kit also bought from HK cos the dealer in SG asked me "why everyone taking Starter Kit you have to get Professional Kit?" ask them whether can order or not they also like don't want to take my business... say you can place order but we can't promise you when you could get your things... thanks to them i paid slightly more than usual to get others from HK...

    about vignetting, Lee filters having lower chance because the filter is 4 inches wide... with Wide Angle adaptor ring i would say your risk is minimized...

    if you want to take Cokin, i know people bought the Cokin P holder and cut it to fit one filter only... they said in this way you're less likely to get vignetting with Cokin P...
    Hi guys,

    Great thread to start. Ok, first, following up on the issue about the lee filter. I had that experience at CP, where the salesperson advised me, while I was looking at Lee filters, that those are more for "medium format" usage, and then directed me to the Cokin filters. I was like, wth? I recalled reading photog magazines where people use lee filters on their 17-40 L canon L lens. Somewhat ridiculous, although I can understand the high cost for "better quality glass" filters.

    Anyway, i'm in exactly the same position as TS as to what filter system to get (and how to operate, what specs, etc)! I'm using a UWA 10-22mm lens for an Europe trip (so the filters e.g. GND,ND will be useful for scenic shots such as mountains/coasts/winter landscape).

    My opinion on this is: at this stage, for newbies or enthusiasts that want to try out landscaping with different type of grads and filters, there isn't any easy way out of it. The first path is painful, but cheaper. Take that I'm using a 77mm UWA, the likely way I can use filters for landscaping would be to:

    1) get the Cokin P filter system (standard), where they support up to 3 plates, but the downside is there'll be heavy guaranteed vignetting.

    2) Otherwise, I "could" get the wide angle holder, which can only carry 1 plate (kinda ridiculous right), but reduce vignetting. The downside to this is you can't be flexible using multiple filters.

    3) Get a Z-pro, a larger diameter, while still using the 77m adapter, to ensure minimal vignetting. The downsides are that it's expensive, and too bulky to carry around.

    Plus the fact that I'm sure everyone knows of the magenta colour cast for Cokin grads, the quality isn't there best there is. (Or is there any compromise/issues that CSers deal with regarding this?)

    4) Use a Lee filter system. On one hand, the quality, build is on top. However, the size of the plates (HUGE), cost of the gear (EXPENSIVE), doesn't really quite warrant buying one unless you're the hardcore landscaper or making a living out of this.

    I've read on other forums that (in the US, people use Cokin P/Z-type holders with 'Hitech' filters that are of much better quality than Cokin filters), but that option isn't readily available in SG. So might I encourage experienced bros/sis of CS who started out/still doing landscape photography to add on their advice to this thread?

    Thanks very much!

  4. #24
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    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Cokin Z-Pro is the same size as Lee Filters... the only difference (if not remember wrongly) is that Lee Filters can turn 2 filters into different angle, while the Cokin holders turn all filters on the holder at the same time...

    in fact, if you're not serious landscape shooters... photoshop might do a better job... just take a few images at different exposure and stitch it in photoshop and make a good HDR photo... save you some 600SGD for 2 GND filters, professional holders (fit 2 filters), and wide angle adaptor ring...

  5. #25

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by waderbreak View Post
    Hi guys,

    Great thread to start. Ok, first, following up on the issue about the lee filter. I had that experience at CP, where the salesperson advised me, while I was looking at Lee filters, that those are more for "medium format" usage, and then directed me to the Cokin filters. I was like, wth? I recalled reading photog magazines where people use lee filters on their 17-40 L canon L lens. Somewhat ridiculous, although I can understand the high cost for "better quality glass" filters.

    Anyway, i'm in exactly the same position as TS as to what filter system to get (and how to operate, what specs, etc)! I'm using a UWA 10-22mm lens for an Europe trip (so the filters e.g. GND,ND will be useful for scenic shots such as mountains/coasts/winter landscape).

    My opinion on this is: at this stage, for newbies or enthusiasts that want to try out landscaping with different type of grads and filters, there isn't any easy way out of it. The first path is painful, but cheaper. Take that I'm using a 77mm UWA, the likely way I can use filters for landscaping would be to:

    1) get the Cokin P filter system (standard), where they support up to 3 plates, but the downside is there'll be heavy guaranteed vignetting.

    2) Otherwise, I "could" get the wide angle holder, which can only carry 1 plate (kinda ridiculous right), but reduce vignetting. The downside to this is you can't be flexible using multiple filters.

    3) Get a Z-pro, a larger diameter, while still using the 77m adapter, to ensure minimal vignetting. The downsides are that it's expensive, and too bulky to carry around.

    Plus the fact that I'm sure everyone knows of the magenta colour cast for Cokin grads, the quality isn't there best there is. (Or is there any compromise/issues that CSers deal with regarding this?)

    4) Use a Lee filter system. On one hand, the quality, build is on top. However, the size of the plates (HUGE), cost of the gear (EXPENSIVE), doesn't really quite warrant buying one unless you're the hardcore landscaper or making a living out of this.

    I've read on other forums that (in the US, people use Cokin P/Z-type holders with 'Hitech' filters that are of much better quality than Cokin filters), but that option isn't readily available in SG. So might I encourage experienced bros/sis of CS who started out/still doing landscape photography to add on their advice to this thread?

    Thanks very much!
    Thanks waderbreak for the useful info
    Guess the colour cast could be settle using photoshop?

    I just woonder...
    1. We should be able to test before we commit purchase right? I mean if there is vignetting, just don't buy or buy other bigger holder...
    2. Usually only CP sells these filter?
    3. Got people actually use GND on Wide Angle lens (like 17-50)? Or more like for UWA?

    Thanks again for those enlighten me.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    I agree with the last thread. Don't pump so much money in getting a GND filter unless you really know what you're getting yourself into.

    I got the Cokin GND but I hardly use. I can usually get by with Photoshop (a few methods)and/or HDR shots.

    But what is really useful is the ND filter - long exposure will be impossible without it.
    Family | Health | Happy-ness. . . my Flickr here

  7. #27
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    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by Shen siung View Post
    Thanks waderbreak for the useful info
    Guess the colour cast could be settle using photoshop?

    I just woonder...
    1. We should be able to test before we commit purchase right? I mean if there is vignetting, just don't buy or buy other bigger holder...
    2. Usually only CP sells these filter?
    3. Got people actually use GND on Wide Angle lens (like 17-50)? Or more like for UWA?

    Thanks again for those enlighten me.
    If you go to Cathay, they'd be able to advise you. Usually for UWA (e.g. 10-22mm), buy the single Cokin filter holder - can't go wrong. But not sure if you can test though...
    Family | Health | Happy-ness. . . my Flickr here

  8. #28

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by jaRv1s View Post
    Cokin Z-Pro is the same size as Lee Filters... the only difference (if not remember wrongly) is that Lee Filters can turn 2 filters into different angle, while the Cokin holders turn all filters on the holder at the same time...

    in fact, if you're not serious landscape shooters... photoshop might do a better job... just take a few images at different exposure and stitch it in photoshop and make a good HDR photo... save you some 600SGD for 2 GND filters, professional holders (fit 2 filters), and wide angle adaptor ring...
    Quote Originally Posted by LifeInMacro View Post
    I agree with the last thread. Don't pump so much money in getting a GND filter unless you really know what you're getting yourself into.

    I got the Cokin GND but I hardly use. I can usually get by with Photoshop (a few methods)and/or HDR shots.

    But what is really useful is the ND filter - long exposure will be impossible without it.
    Read before some articles but forgot, just to confirm again... The effect of CPL, ND and GND, is almost impossible to imitate in PP? Or the effect of GND can be imitate? I know ND is very useful to 'smooth' the water even under bright daylight.

    Yes my photoshop knowledge is poor...

  9. #29
    Senior Member giantcanopy's Avatar
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    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by Shen siung View Post
    Or the effect of GND can be imitate?
    Not duplicable, wait till the highlights of the skies for instance are blown.

    Some people do HDR / exposure blending. But not all scenes are amendable to bracketting, and GND if applicable is so much easier to do with one shot. Pros and cons

    Ryan

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    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by Shen siung View Post
    Read before some articles but forgot, just to confirm again... The effect of CPL, ND and GND, is almost impossible to imitate in PP? Or the effect of GND can be imitate? I know ND is very useful to 'smooth' the water even under bright daylight.

    Yes my photoshop knowledge is poor...
    I guess to some extent you can simulate GND in photoshop or even some editing softwares, but i think brother("LifeinMacro") is right, you can't get a ND effect for smooth silky water in daylight without ND filters. You'll thank yourself later when you have tried simulating that effect in photoshop(I have tried and failed).

    I guess(if i remember correctly), the raw image editor software that comes with Sony alpha cameras has this GND effect filter too. just fyi if you are sony alpha user.

    So invest in ND filters. I suggest ND2 and ND8. Your CPL if you have it, also doubles up as a ND4 filter.
    Personally i use ND2 and CPL. If i need to get ND8 effect, i just stack my ND2 and CPL. Interesting how the picture turns out.

    Some people are purists and want to get it right in camera, so they also go for GND filters. Well, it all depends on your creativity and beliefs and BUDGET too.

  11. #31

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by giantcanopy View Post
    Not duplicable, wait till the highlights of the skies for instance are blown.


    Ryan
    Hi, I've experienced before, for those highly contrast scene like sunset, I can't metered on either side, so I was thinking a GND could help me. Am I correct on this? This is what you mean right? The questions seems weird but as I'm new in this. Thanks.

  12. #32

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by Shen siung View Post
    Hi, I've experienced before, for those highly contrast scene like sunset, I can't metered on either side, so I was thinking a GND could help me. Am I correct on this? This is what you mean right? The questions seems weird but as I'm new in this. Thanks.
    yes, you are correct, GND definitely helps when taking scenes with High contrasts...

    not everything can be duplicated in PS, otherwise the filter makers would be out of biz by now...

  13. #33

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Alright,
    After much contribution by fellow CSer, I've got myself a cokin filter system. My lack of knowledge again makes me almost cannot get what i want - I went to CP and they currently out of stock for GND... And they don't have the CPL too. Call up CP-MS, also no stock.

    Thus I call up MS and they do not have Cokin system. Thus try my luck in JO, again they don't carry. So at the end I went AP Funan. They have CPL and Cokin holder, again no GND, but it is slightly expensive then CP. But since I need it very soon for my trip, so I just buy CPL 1st.

    I did not check 100% the code of the CPL from internet before I go, I thought they should know which one is CPL. But the salesperson also slightly unsure which is the correct CPL... but then he said there should be just 2 type of PL, one is linear, which not suit for digital and the one he got for me is CPL.

    Lucky it is the correct one after I come home and check online

    I never know GND is so popular until every shop out of stock.
    Think I can try OP, but again I'm lack of time...

    So the lesson learn today
    1. Buy early...
    2. Done homework 100%...

    by the way,
    CP quote me the holder is $15, but AP sell at $20. The CPL CP quote $75 (but no stock), AP sell at $79.

    nowadays they all don't carry Z-Pro series, only with the so called wide P series, with only one slot of filter, and claim to be 20% wider... Well I just have to try then only know...

  14. #34

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    I saw a GND8 at CPP just now. Its at the top left hand corner of the shelf...

  15. #35

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Ha you were there? Maybe we were there same time. was there around 6.20pm
    Hmm... probably because I just ask for GND2 (which is the 121L if not wrong....) or the sales person just don't want my money

    I've check the Cokin website, ND2 is good enough right? AP got the code 120, which is a ND3.3, but I'm not sure is that ok or not...

    Edit: after more read up, guess 120 is the so called ND3? that allow 30% transmission, but I think I only need ND2 now, to try how is the 50% transmission can give me...

    Strange, the salesmen at AP don't even know what is the code 120.....
    Last edited by Shen siung; 18th June 2009 at 10:36 PM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by Shen siung View Post
    Ha you were there? Maybe we were there same time. was there around 6.20pm
    Hmm... probably because I just ask for GND2 (which is the 121L if not wrong....) or the sales person just don't want my money

    I've check the Cokin website, ND2 is good enough right? AP got the code 120, which is a ND3.3, but I'm not sure is that ok or not...

    Edit: after more read up, guess 120 is the so called ND3? that allow 30% transmission, but I think I only need ND2 now, to try how is the 50% transmission can give me...

    Strange, the salesmen at AP don't even know what is the code 120.....
    oic...yes, we were there the same time...dun think got ND2 in stock and the ND8 was the last pc...

  17. #37

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by Shen siung View Post
    Hi all,

    I would like to know, for GND filter, what type you guys would recommend? Is it better to buy the type can slot in (like the cokin filter which hold by a filter holder) or like the Hoya type (a circle that just screw in front of lens)

    correct me if I'm wrong, Hoya does have GND right?
    http://www.hoyafilter.com/products/hoya/oef-08.html

    Is it better to buy the Cokin type that need a filter holder? I foresee that with Cokin type easy to change to different filter and can fit with different lens, but would it be cumbersome? which type is more 'cost effective'?

    Planning to get one for my Tamron 17-50, and another for a UWA.

    I have no experience on filters so would appreciate any user could input their views,

    Thanks
    1. get slot in type filters, as ryan (giantcanopy) says, you get choice of horizon placement. you do not get such luxury with screw in type.

    2. i use cokin p series filter holder (for uwa) because it does not have vignetting. only can hold one filter. you can consider getting a 3 filter holder to stack for your 17-50, but i will tell you that uses are limited..

    3. slot in type also good, because filter holder is universal, you just need one more ring (very little space needed) for every additional lens.

  18. #38

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by Shen siung View Post
    Thanks. So is it mean Cokin is a better value for money buy? Is there other recommended brand, beside Cokin and Lee filters?

    From the price guide, a basic set up should include the follow?
    Cokin P holder (wide angle) - ($15 CP) ($20 OP)
    Cokin Gradual ND2 or ND4 or ND8 (P) - ($27 CP)($48 OP)
    Cokin 67mm Adaptor Ring - ($14 CP)

    If correct, means not more then $70~$80?
    lee is going to empty your pocket.

    there is another good brand, singh ray, that one will also empty pocket, last i checked one gnd = usd100.

    btw, i suggest you DO NOT get cokin gnds, use tianya greys, because their color, while not entirely neutral, is still better than cokin.

    cokin gnds tend to add yellowish tint that is hard to remove in post process.

  19. #39

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by giantcanopy View Post
    Not duplicable, wait till the highlights of the skies for instance are blown.

    Some people do HDR / exposure blending. But not all scenes are amendable to bracketting, and GND if applicable is so much easier to do with one shot. Pros and cons

    Ryan
    exposure blending is usually more than ok for seascapes

    horrible for cityscapes, this is where gnd will help better, because you will not have such a hard time erasing.

    hdr just plain horrible output, i will never use it ever again after trying exposure blending a few times.. unless really boh pian exposure blending too hard to use.

    but gnd is still very applicable, where the horizon line is clear, or anything above a certain horizontal point is alright darkened by stipulated number of stops, it saves tons of processing time.

  20. #40

    Default Re: All about filters - GND

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    1. get slot in type filters, as ryan (giantcanopy) says, you get choice of horizon placement. you do not get such luxury with screw in type.

    2. i use cokin p series filter holder (for uwa) because it does not have vignetting. only can hold one filter. you can consider getting a 3 filter holder to stack for your 17-50, but i will tell you that uses are limited..

    3. slot in type also good, because filter holder is universal, you just need one more ring (very little space needed) for every additional lens.
    Thanks, lucky me, get the correct thing already. should have just PM you ask 1st. Thought you will leave your valuable opinion here much earlier

    Yes, think I got the P series wide same as yours, that only allowed one filter to slot in.

    I miss out the page in Cokin about this wide P holder, the website actually talk about this holder in saperate page.
    http://www.cokin.com/ico6-WIDE-ANGLE-HOLDER.html

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    lee is going to empty your pocket.

    there is another good brand, singh ray, that one will also empty pocket, last i checked one gnd = usd100.

    btw, i suggest you DO NOT get cokin gnds, use tianya greys, because their color, while not entirely neutral, is still better than cokin.

    cokin gnds tend to add yellowish tint that is hard to remove in post process.

    Lucky me have't buy yet...

    Oh I never thought about Tianya, wonder you have hands on experience on it? Do you know which shops carry them?

    Tianya got GND right? (from my research below shows yes...)

    I've done some quick work on searching info on Tian ya, maybe can share with others
    http://www.trick77.com/2008/09/21/re...dient-filters/
    http://photo.net/filters-bags-tripod...s-forum/00JzdA
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187653
    Last edited by Shen siung; 18th June 2009 at 11:03 PM.

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