View Poll Results: Are we being taken advantage off?

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  • Yes we are killing ourselves.

    242 34.82%
  • No, this will benefit the newbies.

    142 20.43%
  • I dunno.

    42 6.04%
  • Its all part of the game.

    269 38.71%
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Thread: Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken adv?

  1. #441
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    Default Re: Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh View Post
    and another thing is that it is not so easy to tag along another photographer, especially when he need to take photos. a photographer cannot concentrate on taking good photos and teaching another person at the same time, that is either on travelling or on the run of a work.
    Thats kinda true, after attending some friends' wedding recently and those good wedding photographers are always on their feet. EVen they were shooting where other pple are resting. U never know when is a good shot will come....

    I wonders, some of these photographers who advertise here in this forum, offering guidance and on-the-job training for these young birds. If a wedding photographer is already so busy, how can he/she divert any attention to this tagging young bird?

    mmmmmmmmmmmmm

  2. #442
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    Default Re: Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Just being given permission to tag along is a very good opportunity unto itself already. I would gladly follow along.

  3. #443
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I'm not sure if the "in the long run" theory holds true. For every irrational pricer who goes bankrupt, there will be 2 more uprising upstarts will will take his place. Babies are born every day, and new startups are born every day too.

    Hence, don't keep your hopes up that they will disappear and only "true professionals" left. Upstarts are a renewable resource.
    moreover really irrational pricers might be the extreme minority that is being used as representative examples. it could be a much larger group that offers competitive pricing that will requires hard work with marginal profits but would not go bankrupt.

  4. #444
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    Default Re: Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    With proliferation of digital cameras owned by almost everyone, no need to worry about CS being sourcing spot for cheap photographers.

    There will be mostly FREE photographers in near future.

  5. #445
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    Default Re: Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Quote Originally Posted by Yatlapball View Post
    Just being given permission to tag along is a very good opportunity unto itself already. I would gladly follow along.
    Yeah, but wat will u feel if at end of the day, ur picture will be used by the photographer u tagged with, FOC?

  6. #446
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Quote Originally Posted by cjl View Post
    Yeah, but wat will u feel if at end of the day, ur picture will be used by the photographer u tagged with, FOC?
    It depends what term between the tag along and the photographer, some may use tag along images, some just expect you to give a copy to the couple, some don't even want to use the images.
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  7. #447
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    Default Re: Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    It depends what term between the tag along and the photographer, some may use tag along images, some just expect you to give a copy to the couple, some don't even want to use the images.
    Well, that reminds me of this thread : http://forum.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=274339

  8. #448
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    There will be mostly FREE photographers in near future.
    yah, but what can you do about photographers who do that for interest? there is nothing to stop them rite? even on moral grounds.

  9. #449
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    Default Re: Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh View Post
    yah, but what can you do about photographers who do that for interest? there is nothing to stop them rite? even on moral grounds.
    Oh, I do not think there is anything wrong.
    There is nothing immoral about not asking for money.

    For example, you have a good set of camera equipment and good photo skills.
    Your uncle asks you to help out to take photos at your cousin's wedding.
    They have all along been very nice to you since you were a kid.
    Can you say no?

    Most of these family events like weddings will be covered by the family members or relatives for free. And small company functions will be covered by the staff.

    There will be little future prospect in these areas for budding Pros.
    Some will still get pros to do it, but not many.

    Even for those who wish to pay, they may go to JB to have their wedding photos done.

    When it comes to high level and big budget commercial advertising photography, I think the Pros can still get jobs and charge.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 22nd April 2007 at 01:38 PM.

  10. #450

    Default Re: Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Oh, I do not think there is anything wrong.
    There is nothing immoral about not asking for money.

    For example, you have a good set of camera equipment and good photo skills.
    Your uncle asks you to help out to take photos at your cousin's wedding.
    They have all along been very nice to you since you were a kid.
    Can you say no?

    Most of these family events like weddings will be covered by the family members or relatives for free. And small company functions will be covered by the staff.

    There will be little future prospect in these areas for budding Pros.
    Some will still get pros to do it, but not many.

    Even for those who wish to pay, they may go to JB to have their wedding photos done.

    When it comes to high level and big budget commercial advertising photography, I think the Pros can still get jobs and charge.
    While I agree, it still goes not address the issue that companies are not looking at their staffs to take photos but coming to CS for photographers. In cases looking for free photographers and also want photogs to give them the full rights of the photos.
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  11. #451
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    While I agree, it still goes not address the issue that companies are not looking at their staffs to take photos but coming to CS for photographers. In cases looking for free photographers and also want photogs to give them the full rights of the photos.
    what we can do is to educate fellow photographers how to protect their copyrights and not just unknowingly give it away thinking it is not their entitlement to retain.

  12. #452
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Some won't even tell you until at the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    It depends what term between the tag along and the photographer, some may use tag along images, some just expect you to give a copy to the couple, some don't even want to use the images.

  13. #453
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Some won't even tell you until at the end.
    who?
    the photographer?
    the tag alone?
    the wedding couple?
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  14. #454
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    The photographer lor. Wait until finish then tell the tag along "Hey dude, pass over your photos (I'm going to include it as part of my work if they are good enough and benefit from it!)."

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    who?
    the photographer?
    the tag alone?
    the wedding couple?

  15. #455
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    Default Re: Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    The photographer lor. Wait until finish then tell the tag along "Hey dude, pass over your photos (I'm going to include it as part of my work if they are good enough and benefit from it!)."
    than that's up to the tap along, prepare to give away his images before the shoot even the photographer state clear not using his images.



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  16. #456

    Default Re: Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Those who never even know what the word "poverty" can of course say what they like. If they are born in a family where the dad is a plumber and mother is a seamstress and four sons to feed, they won't say the word 'exploitation' again. They will automatically cut prices to make ends meet if there's no business. Don't sound so noble. Professional? LOL, go ahead man. You haven't seen LIFE yet. You are lucky today because you are born in a better condition than others. You can say something like that because you have not been knocked like hell by life itself. If you are a successful photographer, congratulate yourself - you have that kind of price rate because your standard is there, no doubt about it since you earned it. However don't make sarcastic remarks about new/cheap/free photographers. They have to start somewhere and everybody has himself or someone else to feed. Why must people go and seek a pro? Who are you? It's their freedom to gauge their budget and choose whoever they like. (Don't you have a budget for everything in life?) Is it because the pros have suffered hardships during their starting days that they want to suppress the newbies? Or is it that the internal defensive system pulling your ears telling you that you are afraid you might lose to a newbie in terms of standards, all to which you give excuses? Always leave a path/opportunity for others - this is the basic conduct of a man. If you are afraid, better brush up your skills or improve your service.

  17. #457
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Hmm, then what other things does the ignorant and newbie tag along is supposed to preempt and guess ahead? I personally feel is better for everything to be made clear before it starts. Anything not said is not counted.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    than that's up to the tap along, prepare to give away his images before the shoot even the photographer state clear not using his images.



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  18. #458
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    Default Re: Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Oh, I do not think there is anything wrong.
    There is nothing immoral about not asking for money.

    For example, you have a good set of camera equipment and good photo skills.
    Your uncle asks you to help out to take photos at your cousin's wedding.
    They have all along been very nice to you since you were a kid.
    Can you say no?

    Most of these family events like weddings will be covered by the family members or relatives for free. And small company functions will be covered by the staff.

    There will be little future prospect in these areas for budding Pros.
    Some will still get pros to do it, but not many.

    Even for those who wish to pay, they may go to JB to have their wedding photos done.

    When it comes to high level and big budget commercial advertising photography, I think the Pros can still get jobs and charge.

    The requestor will know in his heart if he is out to get/exploit cheap photog or not.

  19. #459

    Default Re: Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    It is so Asian to be killing ourselves. Period. Has been for the last 20 years and more. Only those who made it to the top of the pile makes the money... the rest just slogs and toils for the rest of their career. This is a fact and I think nothing we can do will change that. It is business, and the business world has always been ruthless.

    In today's era, there is a choice. Move out of Singapore and sell yourself to the next market where you think you have a better chance of survival. This is the truth, as many Singaporeans has already travelled out of the country to find greener pastures, and some have made a name for themselves and making a handsome amount of money. Whether they come back or not, it is a different story altogether.

    Hope this sheds light into the topic discussed in this thread.

  20. #460
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Hmm, then what other things does the ignorant and newbie tag along is supposed to preempt and guess ahead? I personally feel is better for everything to be made clear before it starts. Anything not said is not counted.
    there are many things that can't learn from schools or courses
    what can they do is do a search, ask around,
    cos nobody has a obligation to teach a newbies everything,
    be humble, show that you are willing to learn,
    showing an attitude, will only make people eager to see how this person bang on to the wall,

    if make a mistake, learn from it, that's the best teacher ones can find.
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