View Poll Results: Are we being taken advantage off?

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  • Yes we are killing ourselves.

    242 34.82%
  • No, this will benefit the newbies.

    142 20.43%
  • I dunno.

    42 6.04%
  • Its all part of the game.

    269 38.71%
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Thread: Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken adv?

  1. #321
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    now u see why Chris ling charges 8K for wedding?
    lolz!

  2. #322

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    Quote Originally Posted by ortega
    At least the cost should be covered, fresh set of batteries, new CF card, CD, maintainance of camera, flash ... etc etc

    Just in case that the free photogs don't know, a wedding shoot wears out your equipment, your equipment has a lifespan.
    Even paid photogs are not paid enough. Given the cost of quality equipment today.

    Don't you agree?
    for me, it really depends if you take photography as a hobby or as a living

    Those who buy photography equipment to make a living definitely want to cover back their cost, but those who buy for the fun of photography...and shooting wedding is just another fun in their photography life so many don't mind shooting for free...or at low cost.

    Not that I agree with the above...but if I shoot for friends, then I leave them to decide the angpow
    DR KOH KHO KING

  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    Couldn't agree more. Many people fail to realize in this area, all these are hidden costs on your side.


    Over the years, the cost of equipment have increase how many folds, and yet wedding couple still complain $500.00 for a actual day wedding photography very expensive now a day.

    Inexperience photographers may start with low price strategy, but must be quick to understand the photography as a business.

    If once decide to remain photography as hobby, occasionally doing shooting as sideline to fund this expensive hobby, please do yourself and other photographers a favor, don’t let customers take advantage on you. Charge a fee; factor your time, effort, and everything.

    If you think you wish to do it for free for whatever reasons, it is fine also, as long you know your time, talent and your gears is worth something and decide to give away for free happily.
    catchlights
    we seem to be bumbing into each other in this forum often. And the scary thing is that we seems to agreed with each other most of the time.We got to stop meeting like this. Maybe we should meet over kopi. I'll PM you, OK? Don't worry, I'm NOT GAY .

    Coming back to the hot topic.
    All that have beem talk about so far is: is it right/OK for someone to ask for free wedding photography and is it right/OK to shoot for free or as some put it, spoilt market.

    I'm looking at it from another angle. What are the risk of asking for free photography and the risk of shooting without experience.
    What if he/she screw up the shoot? Will he/she have the experience to NOT get in the way of the guest watching the proceedings? As the photographer have coryrights to the pics, what if he/she post it over the net and people make fun/leeched it. How would the wedding couple feel? As the 2nd photographer, what if I screw up? Will my inexperience show and become an embarrassment to myself and worst, embarrass the couple?

    If you need help, post it here. The people here are more than willing to give free advise. Catchlights and myself have done it, so have many other photographer all over this forum. If you need help to shoot, why not get your and the bride's other co-workers to help? It'll be more fun right? There are some good photographer here who even offered to tag along and help to shoot.
    In my personnal opinion, if I want to give a gift to a friend, I'll want it to be personnal. Asking a stranger to help me for free and than give to them as my personnal gift........... don't seem to work for me, again this is my personnal view.
    If I want to give some newbie a chance to shoot weddings. My friend's wedding is too important to risk in order to help someone I don't even know.

    Do I think it is OK to shoot for free? As what Catchlights have said, it's your time, your gear and your talent. So long as you're happy about it, go ahead. Just remember, a wedding is a once in a lifetime event. Don't screw up the couple or their guest's happy day. As a photographer, I've seem it happen too many times, sometime it the the friend/brother/etc shooting their frist wedding and sometime it is a new paid photographer who screw up doing/saying the wrong thing, or most of the time, blocking the view of the guest.

    Think about it.

  4. #324
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
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    Has clubsnap become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken adv?

    NO

    Anyone else you care to point a finger at

    Try the internet in general.
    It used to be an art making an A Bomb, now anybody can have one.
    Time, is an effortless construction :)

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlg
    In fact, photographers should work together in a community. For example, if a client comes to a good photographer but only have $x to spend, and it's not enough for the photographer, he could recommend a another fellow photographer that can accept that rate. It's up to the client to experience the quality difference, and the ease of working with a cheaper, less experience photographer than a more professional one. Eventually, you get what you pay for.
    I think this post is more CONSTRUCTIVE......

    United we stand... but Singaporean is never known for UNITY in any sense... becos all KIA SU.... and you die your business attitude.... which I find it totally disgusiting...

    Frankly, I think the PRO do need to protect their livihood, and many FOC, freelance are killing their rice bowl. I think this is not ethical... but hey... in SG.... who is still talking about ethic???

    All want CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP....

    I say this is a DOG eat DOG situation, and there might not be any real WINNER in the end.

    Unless all the PRO can strike a agreement in unity.

    In US, OZ, trade like plumber, etc are well respected and can make decent money due to the unity and the barrier to entry.

    What I am suggesting does sound protectionist... but in SG, that is how it is done... and it is done in US, etc.... so why not???

    For the PRO to survive... they must unite. Simple.

    Difficulty, the rules and agreement to be followed... kia su singaporean tend to break agreements.

    For those amature (like myself), I think that the livilhood of others should not be THREATENED or DESTROYED due to selfish passion of mine in photography. It is unfair, and unethical.

    Please spare more thoughts for others. Frankly, I do not expect many Singaporean to do this.

    Just some of my thoughts.
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  6. #326
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    frankly, i think the photography circle is not the only industry suffering from this attitude of "everything cheap, free better but must be good" attitude. it's sickening.

    how can local talent expect to grow, mature and be creative when the general public is not willing to pay for quality and appreciate it.

    personally, i'm wouldn't mind a good deal. everyone does. but i'm willing to pay when i feel i'm getting quality, no-nonsense standard.

    though i'm not a pro, everytime someone ask me to quote for some shoot or something i always check with my friends who are pros on what should be charged. i don't want to spoil their market or break their rice bowls. they are afterall my friends.

  7. #327
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    That I agree.But in the end, it's a free market out there, and the only saviour is the character of the freelancer, whether he wants to be known as the cheap snapper or someone who knows he's improving and is willing to let people know he will not take anything less than the market rate.

    In the end, when you stand at the spot and snap away, there is no difference between a freelancer or a professional.When you take up the paid assignment, you gotta be sure to give your all.
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  8. #328

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    if ALL photographers start to charge expensive, and everyone cannot find a SINGLE cheap one, then there is no problem.

    But there is ALWAYS some one who is willing to lower their rate what. It is human problems we can never solve.

  9. #329

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kho King
    for me, it really depends if you take photography as a hobby or as a living

    Those who buy photography equipment to make a living definitely want to cover back their cost, but those who buy for the fun of photography...and shooting wedding is just another fun in their photography life so many don't mind shooting for free...or at low cost.

    Not that I agree with the above...but if I shoot for friends, then I leave them to decide the angpow
    wondeirng if anyone actually does a study to find out how much pie the wedding photography bz is divided

    eg

    professional photographer - N %
    freelance photographer - M %
    helper photographer - X %
    ocasssiona photographer (eg hobby) - Y %

    dunno how much the freelancer eatens?

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Potter
    if ALL photographers start to charge expensive, and everyone cannot find a SINGLE cheap one, then there is no problem.

    But there is ALWAYS some one who is willing to lower their rate what. It is human problems we can never solve.
    You ain't see enough yet, it wouldn’t work at all. Sure have someone is desperately hard up for assignments.

    Have you hear that someone offer free service? Any couple took the bait, later will realize have to pay very expensive for the CD or the film.

  11. #331
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    competition in any given market is always good. it breeds a desire to be the top-dog or to provide a very value-added service.

    guess the issue is if it leads to under-cutting at a ridiculous level then it's no longer healthy.

    what's going to happen to a person's sense of self-worth?

  12. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Potter
    wondeirng if anyone actually does a study to find out how much pie the wedding photography bz is divided

    eg

    professional photographer - N %
    freelance photographer - M %
    helper photographer - X %
    ocasssiona photographer (eg hobby) - Y %

    dunno how much the freelancer eatens?
    Do you know how many wedding couples don't have photographers?

  13. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowwow
    competition in any given market is always good. it breeds a desire to be the top-dog or to provide a very value-added service.

    guess the issue is if it leads to under-cutting at a ridiculous level then it's no longer healthy.

    what's going to happen to a person's sense of self-worth?
    That's right, sometime couple ask me how I charge this amount for so little things, why "so and so" charge the same amount got so many thing? got this and that somemore?

    I told them go to "so and so" lor, his is offering you a better deal, if can't see the different between my works and his/her, why pay me?

    But even that, I won't call "so and so" cheap photographer infront of couple.

    I have seen this since day one I enter this industrial, so don't think you can change anything.

  14. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    That's right, sometime couple ask me how I charge this amount for so little things, why "so and so" charge the same amount got so many thing? got this and that somemore?

    I told them go to "so and so" lor, his is offering you a better deal, if can't see the different between my works and his/her, why pay me?

    But even that, I won't call "so and so" cheap photographer infront of couple.

    I have seen this since day one I enter this industrial, so don't think you can change anything.

    that's commendable.....

    it's a very sad state of affairs in this country. sad but true...

  15. #335
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    In fact, as a profession

    Photography skill is only 30%
    Business practice is 30%
    Human skill is 40%

    So you’ll how come so many photographers come and go

  16. #336
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    Cheap and good photographers are everywhere...mayb u r already 1 of them

    "If you can't beat them, join them"

    It is the consumer rights to choose what they want.

  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman
    Cheap and good photographers are everywhere...mayb u r already 1 of them

    "If you can't beat them, join them"

    It is the consumer rights to choose what they want.
    How cheap is cheap?

    Compare to compass photographers, Yes, I'm cheap.

    I can't beat them, but they also don't want me to join them..

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Potter
    if ALL photographers start to charge expensive, and everyone cannot find a SINGLE cheap one, then there is no problem.

    But there is ALWAYS some one who is willing to lower their rate what. It is human problems we can never solve.
    You mean FREE photographers?

  19. #339
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    I must be the cheapest photographer.
    Price = $0.00
    But only for very close friends and in the distant past when I was still finding it a bit fun to take wedding shots. But not now.
    Sometimes I even provide the film and the prints.
    Consider it a gift for friends.

    Sometimes people get wrong idea.
    A former colleague more than 10 years ago asked me to recommend photographers for his wedding.
    I did recommend to him a few names of top class photographers.
    But he rejected everyone I recommended over a period of 2 months. (they were VERY good pro photographers)
    In the end he pestered me to do the photography for him claiming none at last minute.

    Oh, then I realised why. He wanted FOC.

    He even specified what brand of camera I should use. ( L...E...I..* *....)
    See, people can be like that.
    Anyway you can read into the person's character (or lack of) from these happenings.

    Since he was a colleague I told him I would take for him the day events but he should get his own photog for the wedding dinner. (which I did not photograph for him)
    Anyway some time later he left the workplace for other pastures.

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Potter
    professional photographer - N %
    freelance photographer - M %
    helper photographer - X %
    ocasssiona photographer (eg hobby) - Y %

    dunno how much the freelancer eatens?
    These information can only be compiled if all photographers work together.... and share the information... a bit difficult.

    Also, more wedding goes without photographer, and lesser marriages should be reason for the decline....
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

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