View Poll Results: Can Germany stop the Allies invasion ?

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  • Yes, the might of the German Army, Panzers, Luftwaffe and German Leadership can stop the invasion

    8 29.63%
  • No, the Allies is determine to face the might of the German Army, regardless obstacles face ahead

    18 66.67%
  • Not Sure

    1 3.70%
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Thread: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

  1. #21

    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Saving private ryan wasn't the first movie to "glorify" the d-day invasion. There were others before it, like "The Longest Day", a real John Wayne movie.

    In that movie, it was depicted that the german officers didn't dare to move their panzer divisions to intercept the allied forces without permission from hitler, who had taken a sleeping pill and could not be disturbed.

    If he had been awake and the panzers had moved, who's to say the allies could have landed successfully?

    What is clear from the records and the no of medals awarded is the bravery of the american paratroopers, who often had to fight overwhelming odds to secure key objectives needed for the main assault force.

    Men like these are what made the difference.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tiger View Post
    Struggling to getting inshore, under heavy fire.



    Pinned down.
    Robert Capa's iconic Normandy invasion images. I believe these were taken at Omaha LZ?

    The Normandy invasion was one of the key pivotal moments of the 2nd World War and given the massive manpower and logistics involved it had to succeed. Salute to all the men and women who made Operation Overlord a success 65 years ago, and R.I.P. to those who died supporting the invasion. However, don't forget too the unsung heroes of the time, the French Resistance based in and around Normandy (the Vichy), and various spies and intelligence agents inserted weeks before the actual invasion proper....they helped to sabotage enemy installations and vital links/crossings in preparation....without their gallantry the invasion would not be a complete success.

    There is this book titled "Ten days before D-day" which I chanced upon at one of the local Kinokuniya bookstores. A fascinating read on what happened behind the scenes just 10 days before 6 June 1944. Actually the details of "Operation Overlord" almost got unwittingly leaked some weeks earlier by a serviceman based in one of the England bases who was privy to the secret....after that he was tracked down and disciplined, and all camps had to tighten security to prevent leaks....despite the super tight security several near leaks still occurred before the day of the invasion itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xtol19 View Post
    Saving private ryan wasn't the first movie to "glorify" the d-day invasion. There were others before it, like "The Longest Day", a real John Wayne movie.

    In that movie, it was depicted that the german officers didn't dare to move their panzer divisions to intercept the allied forces without permission from hitler, who had taken a sleeping pill and could not be disturbed.
    One of my favourite classic war movies, based on one of the best books on the invasion of the same title by Cornelius Ryan. I watched it since young and now growing up and watching it again, its still an impressive depiction of the invasion despite other more "realistic" modern movies/series like "Saving Pte Ryan" and "Band of Brothers".

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    the 101st, the 82nd airborne and the 2nd Ranger Battalion did lots of behind the scenes work before the actual invasion.

    the initial Ranger landing force of 225+ on Pointe du Hoc, was reduced to about 90 men who could still fight after 2 days of german counterattacks.

    by end of the WWII, the 101st division suffered 1,766 Killed In Action; 6,388 Wounded In Action; and 324 Died of Wounds during World War II.

  4. #24
    Senior Member josho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    actually base on the map, is that the only beach they can invade?

    The Longest Day made my history alive about the Pre War preparation by Allies due bad weather forecast and the Germans are so proud that Allies will not attack. Only 1 officer is very scare about it.

    At Omaha Beach invasion, US 1st Infantry Division were almost wiped out until some make it to the point. Respect. The rest of the beach defense is weak thus it took Allied a short while to invade, unlike Omaha Beach.

  5. #25
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    I think if Germany had invaded UK, the Allies might not had won the war.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Enjoy reading this thread. Must read more on the subject.

    I has seen a couple of war films. At the end of the day... I would like to say again.

    "The victory of a Army General is the result of ten of thousands of skulls(Lives)"

    No war.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon_84 View Post
    the 101st, the 82nd airborne and the 2nd Ranger Battalion did lots of behind the scenes work before the actual invasion.

    the initial Ranger landing force of 225+ on Pointe du Hoc, was reduced to about 90 men who could still fight after 2 days of german counterattacks.

    by end of the WWII, the 101st division suffered 1,766 Killed In Action; 6,388 Wounded In Action; and 324 Died of Wounds during World War II.
    And also the many airborne troops "miss their landing zone" behind the enemy line. and it by good fortunte confuse the germany high command thinking that the allies troops already advance way inland.

    and 2nd Ranger Battalion are one of the first unit to land on Normandy beach. that where they have their motto "Rangers Lead The Way".

  8. #28

    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone View Post
    I think if Germany had invaded UK, the Allies might not had won the war.
    It is history. We learn from history and history always repeats itself!

    Sob...sob!

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    I like how people speculate.

    if so and so had done this, they might have won the war

    if so and so had done that, they might not have won the war

    etc.


    remember people, we are looking at events retrospectively. hindsight is always 20/20, hence it allows for us to make such sweeping statements.
    chicken fight!

  10. #30

    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone View Post
    I think if Germany had invaded UK, the Allies might not had won the war.
    actually, if they go ahead with Ops Sealion with air support, the history may change.

  11. #31
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    If the German Army had gotton their tanks to the beach in time..... maybe.
    The German High Command and Hilter were concerned that the landing in Normandy might be a diversion attack,
    and the main invasion might come from elsewhere, like Calais.
    From Calais, it would be easy to thrust towards Paris, and more nearer to Berlin.

    They worried that if they deploy all the available panzer divisons to stop the landing at Normandy,
    there will be no armour divison available to stop the main invasion, should it happen that Normandy landing is a fake one.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  12. #32
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Having said, I decided to post : No, which the German will stop be able to stop the invasion force.

    Here a few points :

    1) I felt that even if the Germans decide to commit Full Force to stop the invasion,
    the deployment of Panzer divisions to Normany region may take days from Paris and elsewhere in France.

    2) During the movement to Normandy, the panzers would have been heavily bombard by Allied airpower in the day as Allies would anticipate the German move, and will came to a halt during day time.

    3) The panzers will only move in the night with tactical lights, which will delay precious hours every day.

    4) Main road towards Normandy would have been destroyed by Allies Air Force,
    forcing the panzers to move in cross-country area.

    5) By the time the panzers arrive in Normandy, say D+7, the Allies force would have
    establish the beachhead and push forward inland.
    The Allies may suffer even more heavy losses then during the battle with concentrate panzers attack, but will still hold firm to the ground, with strong Allies Air power support.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  13. #33
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Quote Originally Posted by Garion View Post
    Robert Capa's iconic Normandy invasion images. I believe these were taken at Omaha LZ?
    That's correct, Bro.

    Robert Capa took 106 pictures in Omaha beaches, unfortunately, only 8 pics survived.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Did the Allies enjoy air supremacy in France and mainland Europe? That'd be strange considering nearly all of mainland western europe was under German control.

    If they didn't have air supremacy, why would the panzers be afraid to move in the day?

    And even if the allies attacked panzers from the air, how devastating could fighters or even bombers be against highly mobile targets? 23mm cannons or machine guns can't really penetrate heavy armour and dumb bombs are not accurate against mobile targets. There were no anti-tank missiles or rockets in those days.
    Last edited by Xtol19; 8th June 2009 at 08:33 PM.

  15. #35
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xtol19 View Post
    Did the Allies enjoy air supremacy in France and mainland Europe? That'd be strange considering nearly all of mainland western europe was under German control.

    Hi Xtol19

    The Allies did not have total air supremacy in France and mainland Europe but they would have much superior airpower control over Normandy region.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xtol19 View Post
    If they didn't have air supremacy, why would the panzers be afraid to move in the day?

    When panzer divisions deploy from one area to another, it is not only the tanks that move,
    but also the rest of the support units, like armour carriers, armour troopers, trucks with supplies, trucks with fuels, technicans, ammunition and etc.
    All this support units are very vulnerable to 12.7mm, 20mm fires from Allies fighter bombers.
    Without the support units, the panzers would be as good as nothing.




    Last edited by King Tiger; 8th June 2009 at 08:58 PM.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  16. #36
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xtol19 View Post
    There were no anti-tank missiles or rockets in those days.
    Hi Xtol19

    The Allies do have rockets mount in 1944.
    Example would be the RAF fighter-bomber aircraft Hawker Typhoon mount with RP-3 rockets, and were generally used against tanks, trains, transports and buildings.


    RAF crews mounting RP-3 rockets to Hawker Typhoon aircrafts.



    RP-3 rockets against German transports.



    Painting illustration of Hawker Typhoon aircrafts attacking Germans trains with RP-3 rockets.



    Painting illustration of Hawker Typhoon aircrafts : Mission accomplish
    Last edited by King Tiger; 8th June 2009 at 09:33 PM.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  17. #37
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xtol19 View Post
    And even if the allies attacked panzers from the air, how devastating could fighters or even bombers be against highly mobile targets?
    23mm cannons or machine guns can't really penetrate heavy armour and dumb bombs are not accurate against mobile targets.

    Hi Xtol19
    I would like to share an historical incident on how devastating fighters/bombers would be even if they miss highly mobile targets with dumb bombs.

    In 18 July 1944, German tank Battalions, SS-Heavy Tank Battalions 103, was deployed in a small town of Emieville.

    Prior to engagement with the Allies, the Allies airforce carpet bombing the town of the Emieville with 500 & 1000 pounds of high explosive bombs.
    Tiger tanks survived the attack and engage the Allies armour.
    When the Germans engaged the Allies, they found that their Tiger tanks had suffered more than just external damage.
    All their tanks' guns were completely out of alignment with the sights, due to the air bomardment.
    The Germans tank commanders were shocked and devastated as they would need to fire 3 rounds in order to justify the correct line of fire during engagement.


    Should Allies found panzers in the areas, they would usually call for air support before engagement.
    They would target the tank, if possible, if not, the nearby building, to create after shock or disable the tank movement.



    The best classical example to airpower versus armour would be Falaise Gap.
    It would be the "Corridor of Death" for the German Panzers.



    General Dwight Eisenhower inspecting a knock out Tiger tank by Allies air bombardment.
    Last edited by King Tiger; 8th June 2009 at 09:48 PM.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  18. #38
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Another image of massive buildup
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  19. #39
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    The Price of Freedom



    The Casualties



    The Price of Peace



    Helping the wounded.



    Aftermath
    Last edited by King Tiger; 8th June 2009 at 10:19 PM.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Military Discussion : D-Day (Operation Overlord 06 June 1944)

    Wow, thanks for keeping this updated. It was my O levels essay loooong time ago.

    U guys have to remember that by mid 1944, much of Axis industries were bombed out. Morale was low as they lost African & Eastern fronts. Troops were mostly forced conscripts & there was also increasing displeasure among officers & Hitler.

    I happened to know a German client who was a descendent of a general in WWII. The military officers were highly regarded aristocrats till this day & not all had a hand in Nazism but they were soldiers.

    Does anyone remember when was Hitler assassinated? He lost one side of hearing after that.

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