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Thread: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

  1. #21
    Member terryansimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    they should change the yellow box to something else.

    in Australia, yellow boxes are replaced with the big HUGE WORDS "KEEP CLEAR

    there's no way you can miss it, and there's no excuse. unless you're illiterate. but I would think Singapore has a higher rate of literacy than Australia.
    chicken fight!

  2. #22
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    Ah, I've located the law on the Yellow Box - the reason why no one can find it is because it is in subsidiary legislation, which is not easily available to the public.

    Anyway here it is:

    Causing obstruction to vehicles proceeding along road junction

    26. Any person who drives or rides, or turns a vehicle or part thereof into a yellow box indicated by yellow lines connecting the 4 corners of —

    (a) a road junction and hatching the junction diagonally, notwithstanding that the light signals controlling the movement of vehicular traffic permit him to do so; or
    (b) an area of road at a road junction on any part of the road as defined under rule 7 (8) of the Road Traffic (Traffic Signs) Rules (R 33), notwithstanding that he has the right of way,
    and by doing so causes obstruction to any other vehicle proceeding to or along that road junction or any part of the road shall be guilty of an offence.


    After reading the above, it seems like my earlier view is wrong, and in fact the TP may be correct!

    It also means that so long as you don't cause obstruction, you are okay to stay in the yellow box!

    What is however, puzzling, is that the term "causing obstruction" can be widely and broadly read; what does it mean?

    In such a case, it appears that neither the side road guy nor the main road guy can be in the yellow box, because if any of them is, he would be causing obstruction to the other!

    This Rule is drafted so vaguely and widely that I think it has no real meaning :P

    Perplexing to say the least At least to me, it is vague enough that I can interpret it to both defend and attack at the same time. Kekeke.
    Last edited by vince123123; 4th June 2009 at 10:03 AM.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by terryansimon View Post
    they should change the yellow box to something else.

    in Australia, yellow boxes are replaced with the big HUGE WORDS "KEEP CLEAR

    there's no way you can miss it, and there's no excuse. unless you're illiterate. but I would think Singapore has a higher rate of literacy than Australia.
    Thing is, social ettiquette and literacy can be inversely proportional in many cases.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Ah, I've located the law on the Yellow Box - the reason why no one can find it is because it is in subsidiary legislation, which is not easily available to the public.

    Anyway here it is:

    Causing obstruction to vehicles proceeding along road junction

    26. Any person who drives or rides, or turns a vehicle or part thereof into a yellow box indicated by yellow lines connecting the 4 corners of

    (a) a road junction and hatching the junction diagonally, notwithstanding that the light signals controlling the movement of vehicular traffic permit him to do so; or
    (b) an area of road at a road junction on any part of the road as defined under rule 7 (8) of the Road Traffic (Traffic Signs) Rules (R 33), notwithstanding that he has the right of way,
    and by doing so causes obstruction to any other vehicle proceeding to or along that road junction or any part of the road shall be guilty of an offence.


    After reading the above, it seems like my earlier view is wrong, and in fact the TP may be correct!

    It also means that so long as you don't cause obstruction, you are okay to stay in the yellow box!

    What is however, puzzling, is that the term "causing obstruction" can be widely and broadly read; what does it mean?

    In such a case, it appears that neither the side road guy nor the main road guy can be in the yellow box, because if any of them is, he would be causing obstruction to the other!

    This Rule is drafted so vaguely and widely that I think it has no real meaning :P

    Perplexing to say the least

    Ok. I'm reading this, and it basically applies to the vehicles entering the main carriageway, hence the title reads "Causing obstruction to vehicles proceeding along road junction". This doesn't seem to apply to vehicles already travelling on the main carriageway.

    "notwithstanding that the light signals controlling the movement of vehicular traffic permit him to do so"

    Meaning that if the lights are red and traffic is stationary, the vehicle joining the main carriageway is permitted to drive or ride, or turn a vehicle or part thereof into a yellow box.

    Have i missed anything?

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    How many people really follow all the rules?

    How many people adhere to the 50km/h speed limit on all S'pore roads not marked with a speed limit?
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  6. #26

    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    generally most motorists are impatient and ruthless on singapore roads... i hardly see such compulsive behaviour overseas. Even Bangkok, India or even maybe China (maybe except HK? Anyone to verify? haha) , the traffic of different classes co-exists effortlessly.
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  7. #27
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    I don't see any reference to main carriageway or side carriageway in Rule 26. Also, I believe that this rule was worded so as to cover yellow boxes both at traffic junctions with traffic lights (ie X junctions with traffic lights regulating both up and down and left and right) as well as junctions where side roads join into main roads (in which case there are no traffic lights)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reflection View Post
    Ok. I'm reading this, and it basically applies to the vehicles entering the main carriageway, hence the title reads "Causing obstruction to vehicles proceeding along road junction". This doesn't seem to apply to vehicles already travelling on the main carriageway.

    "notwithstanding that the light signals controlling the movement of vehicular traffic permit him to do so"

    Meaning that if the lights are red and traffic is stationary, the vehicle joining the main carriageway is permitted to drive or ride, or turn a vehicle or part thereof into a yellow box.

    Have i missed anything?

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by synapseman View Post
    How many people really follow all the rules?

    How many people adhere to the 50km/h speed limit on all S'pore roads not marked with a speed limit?
    True, but when the act of flouting the rules gets other people involved, then it gets more complicated.

  9. #29
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    when I took my highway code 30 years ago, the yellow box from many yellow lines had already change to just two cross lines, but the rule is still the same.

    in simple words
    the main purpose the yellow box is not to obstruct traffic.

    if you in the main road and going straight, can not stop inside the yellow box.

    if you in the main road and making a right or left turn, you can wait inside the yellow box.

    if you are from a small road entering a main road, you can stop inside the yellow box.
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  10. #30
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    Yah that's what I think and still think from a logical and purposive approach.

    However, it seems that this view may not be borne out by the written law.

    That said, I'll still continue to drive as per this view as far as yellow box is concerned If a TP comes and challenges me, I'll then say I didn't obstruct hahah

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    when I took my highway code 30 years ago, the yellow box from many yellow lines had already change to just two cross lines, but the rule is still the same.

    in simple words
    the main purpose the yellow box is not to obstruct traffic.

    if you in the main road and going straight, can not stop inside the yellow box.

    if you in the main road and making a right or left turn, you can wait inside the yellow box.

    if you are from a small road entering a main road, you can stop inside the yellow box.

  11. #31
    Member terryansimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by synapseman View Post
    How many people really follow all the rules?

    How many people adhere to the 50km/h speed limit on all S'pore roads not marked with a speed limit?
    I do.

    I keep it to 50 on unmarked, urban roads.

    I never speed.

    I signal when I change lanes.

    I give way as and when I can.

    explains why I've never gotten copped with a speeding fine ever since I started driving.
    chicken fight!

  12. #32
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    thanks Vince123123 for highlighting the part of the legal document which covers this topic. I tried to read it several times, and it's still not a definitive 'yes' to allowing a car from the side road to turn onto the main road but stop inside the box.

    Quite a number of the posts in this thread state that "if you are from a small road entering a main road, you can stop inside the yellow box." or words to that effect. But where is the proof?
    The yellow box shown in my photo only covers 2 of the 3 lanes, so without evidence, I could reasonably argue a point that the box is intended for cars to exit Balmoral Plaza and cross over to the right-most lane and make a subsequent right-turn not 10 metres ahead. Without the yellow box, such a move would be all but impossible.
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  13. #33
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    .
    .
    .


    Causing obstruction to vehicles proceeding along road junction

    26. Any person who drives or rides, or turns a vehicle or part thereof into a yellow box indicated by yellow lines connecting the 4 corners of —

    (a) a road junction and hatching the junction diagonally, notwithstanding that the light signals controlling the movement of vehicular traffic permit him to do so; or

    (b) an area of road at a road junction on any part of the road as defined under rule 7 (8) of the Road Traffic (Traffic Signs) Rules (R 33), notwithstanding that he has the right of way,

    and by doing so causes obstruction to any other vehicle proceeding to or along that road junction or any part of the road shall be guilty of an offence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reflection View Post
    Ok. I'm reading this, and it basically applies to the vehicles entering the main carriageway, hence the title reads "Causing obstruction to vehicles proceeding along road junction". This doesn't seem to apply to vehicles already travelling on the main carriageway.

    "notwithstanding that the light signals controlling the movement of vehicular traffic permit him to do so"

    Meaning that if the lights are red and traffic is stationary, the vehicle joining the main carriageway is permitted to drive or ride, or turn a vehicle or part thereof into a yellow box.

    Have i missed anything?
    It seems to quite clearly state that if you drive straight into or turn into a yellow box and cause obstruction to other vehicles proceeding along that road, regardless of whether the traffic light permits you to do so, you are guilty of a traffic offence.

    This means that even if there was a traffic light at the Balmoral Plaza exit which was showing green, it would still be an offence to proceed and enter the yellow box.

    I hope we can leave the moral issue aside for the time being. Whether Singapore motorists are gracious enough to give way is another matter which I shall not discuss here.
    Last edited by ZerocoolAstra; 4th June 2009 at 01:33 PM.
    Exploring! :)

  14. #34

    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    There are some information about yellow box in the "Mighty Minds - The New Highway Code Book 1" .

    On the back cover, the is an acknowledgment which reads "We are grateful to the Traffic Management Dept, Land Transport Authority for providing the most up-to-date information, advice, guidance and help in the production of this Highway Code Book".

  15. #35
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    yup thanks. But that only states the case about the yellow box at an intersection, and only allowing a car to stop in the yellow box when waiting to turn right across oncoming traffic. Nothing about the issue I have raised here in this thread.
    Exploring! :)

  16. #36

    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    hi

    i've heard many times when friends/family from overseas come to Singapore and one of their comments is Singaporean driving etiquette and lane discipline is horrible. as the case is do anything you wan just dun get caught. that the mentality of Singaporeans i guess. if get caught. then argue your way out to reduce punishment or even better get away scot free.

    i would agree with vince that the law is written vaguely. in this case for example.zerocoolastra would say that the cars that 'plonk' themselves in the yellow box is in the wrong. whereas to others, they are not coz they did not cause any obstructions. so i guess as long TP nvr summon them for stopping there means noone is in the wrong.

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  17. #37
    Member terryansimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    honestly I would have thought the yellow box was to allow cars to merge into traffic on the main road, if not they wouldn't have a chance to do so if traffic on the main road was flowing normally without any stoppages.

    that was what I was taught by my mum (who got her driving education done in the UK almost 50 to 60 years ago), by my driving instructor (a while back now).

    so I would have thought it just allows for driver to merge back onto the main road.

    didn't know the legislation was written such that it was so vague and ambiguous.
    chicken fight!

  18. #38
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    And what does this "information" say?

    Do bear in mind also that the LTA cannot make law or interpret law, so whilst what they say can be used as guidance, they should not be relied on absolutely.

    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    There are some information about yellow box in the "Mighty Minds - The New Highway Code Book 1" .

    On the back cover, the is an acknowledgment which reads "We are grateful to the Traffic Management Dept, Land Transport Authority for providing the most up-to-date information, advice, guidance and help in the production of this Highway Code Book".

  19. #39
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    Yup, your first paragraph is what I read to be the logical and purposive approach of what the yellow box is for and what mischief is being prevented or addressed.

    Sadly, our law makers chose to word the law in such a vague fashion, which is leading to the current debate right now.

    I'll follow up with a search to see if there are any local cases which has made a ruling on this Rule 26 and update in a short while

    Quote Originally Posted by terryansimon View Post
    honestly I would have thought the yellow box was to allow cars to merge into traffic on the main road, if not they wouldn't have a chance to do so if traffic on the main road was flowing normally without any stoppages.

    that was what I was taught by my mum (who got her driving education done in the UK almost 50 to 60 years ago), by my driving instructor (a while back now).

    so I would have thought it just allows for driver to merge back onto the main road.

    didn't know the legislation was written such that it was so vague and ambiguous.

  20. #40
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Vehicle in Yellow Box - Legal?

    Just an update; I did not manage to locate any reported case on Rule 26, and hence, its open for anybody's guess.

    I did find a case which says that the person in the minor road have to give way to the person on the major road even at a yellow box; but was a situation where the major road person was not stuck in front (like the TS's case) and I think everyone knows that already.

    All in all, I think its still anyone's game

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