Purchase Decision Between Nikon D100 & Canon EOS-10D

ehcsim · 19th November 2003

Hi,
I am new in the club. Currently I am using Nikon Coolpix 5000 for my photography hobby. Of course the camera does have limitation compared with SLR camera performance.
I am now looking at Nikon D100 and Canon EOS-10D digital SLR. The performance of these 2 cameras are quite similar in most aspects.
My application is mainly on

- moving objects like people walking in the street,
- sharp individual portrait,
- Low light photography and some macro shots.

I know some of the facts from the web site discussion, as below. But please kindly advise me the following

- Is there any critical or strong points that I must take note?
- Is this a good time to buy? Nikon D75, D70 or D200 is coming?

D100 Points
- Under exposure, normally corrected by +0.3 to +0.7 compensation
- High-impact plastic / rubber ( Metal sub-structure )
- Visible noise from ISO 800 onwards
- Unclear continuous servo AF, automatically tracking moving subjects?
+ Better grip & spot metering
+ Instant power up, < 0.1 sec

Canon EOS-10D Points
- Over exposure and blow highlights
- Metal body but does not feel as good as the D100 body
- Some AF issue, especially low light?
+ Minimum noise at ISO1600, Digi processor acts?

Regards ehcsim

Cheesecake · 19th November 2003

FujiFilm FinePix S2Pro?

ur best bet!

actually, what do u expect from posting on a Nikon forum?

9 out of 10 will tell u either D100 or S2Pro...
the last one is considering changing systems to oly's 4/3. haha

it is all personal preference.

ehcsim · 19th November 2003

Hi Cheesecake,
Well, I need to find out 2 things.

1) To figure any strong strong points for Nikon D100 compare to Canon EOS-10D. Many shopkeepers ask me to buy Canon EOS-10D than Nikon D100.

2) I heard there is possibility of new Nikon D70, D75 or D200 is coming. So to gather how true is this news and also roughly when it will happen too.

Regards ehcsim

HelmetBox · 19th November 2003

Why nvr consider Canon 300D?

have you read the reviews for the cameras Here ? May help you decide.

Cheesecake · 19th November 2003

hopefully some kind souls with D100 will be able to direct you...

i'm only limited to S2Pro.... sorry, can't help you much.

Canon's lenses are seemingly more expensive than Nikon's and who knows, Canon might change their lens mount anytime soon.... u'll never know! haha

HelmetBox · 19th November 2003

Originally Posted by Cheesecake

hopefully some kind souls with D100 will be able to direct you...

i'm only limited to S2Pro.... sorry, can't help you much.

Canon's lenses are seemingly more expensive than Nikon's and who knows, Canon might change their lens mount anytime soon.... u'll never know! haha

Urrr... one CSer said in one of the posts that he mailed canon and got a reply that they will not be changing lens mount. You can try to do a search, I forgot where the thread is.......

Cheesecake · 19th November 2003

Originally Posted by HelmetBox

Urrr... one CSer said in one of the posts that he mailed canon and got a reply that they will not be changing lens mount. You can try to do a search, I forgot where the thread is.......

hello helmetbox,

that is indeed very informative.

my take on Canon is not to be taken seriosuly at all. it was done so in mock gesture.

HelmetBox · 19th November 2003

Originally Posted by Cheesecake

hello helmetbox,

that is indeed very informative.

my take on Canon is not to be taken seriosuly at all. it was done so in mock gesture.

mock gesture?

Beta dun let those die hard canon users see this

else u really cheesecake. heheheeeeee.......

Cheesecake · 19th November 2003

well, it can't be helped could it?
haha

it is indeed reassuring for Canon users.

Royce · 19th November 2003

For me it was a no-brainer. I already had Nikon film system and had invested too much in my lenses to consider changing camps. So went with D100. Now that I know the camera pretty well, I love it.

But as you don't really have any compelling reason with either Nikon or Canon, why limit yourself to either?

One system that I'm quite interested in is the Olympus E-1. I've not read any reviews for it, but the advertising material on it sounds pretty impressive. Not sure how much $ it is. It's marketed as a pro system so may be expensive.

Nikon haven't made any announcements as to the successor to the D100. If I remember correctly though, they said they wouldn't release new cameras more frequently than every 2 years.

PM me if you have specific D100 questions.

HelmetBox · 19th November 2003

Originally Posted by Cheesecake

well, it can't be helped could it?
haha

it is indeed reassuring for Canon users.

its reassuring to both the big players.

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...ht=canon+4%2F3

Don't know how true anyway. But its always nice to have hope to hold on to.

Cheesecake · 19th November 2003

Originally Posted by HelmetBox

its reassuring to both the big players.

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...ht=canon+4%2F3

Don't know how true anyway. But its always nice to have hope to hold on to.

erm, i'm sorry but u got me there.
correct me if i'm wrong.

it only talked of Canon and Nikon, the 2 bigwigs in Digital photography, not keen to research and invest in the 4/3 system.
that i understand as the 4/3 is new and the risks are great.

anyway, this is O.T. let's get back to the main topic that is being discussed.

HelmetBox · 19th November 2003

Originally Posted by Cheesecake

erm, i'm sorry but u got me there.
correct me if i'm wrong.

it only talked of Canon and Nikon, the 2 bigwigs in Digital photography, not keen to research and invest in the 4/3 system.
that i understand as the 4/3 is new and the risks are great.

anyway, this is O.T. let's get back to the main topic that is being discussed.

Actually not very OT, since it somehow assures the thread starter on the future if he chooses either D100 or 10D.

Don't limit yourself if you don't have a system to start with. Royce is right.

IMHO, every camera has its pros and cons, its how the person behind lives with it and goes around it. Technology is never ending. There will always be a better model.

All the best with your search!

Larry · 19th November 2003

Originally Posted by ehcsim

2) I heard there is possibility of new Nikon D70, D75 or D200 is coming. So to gather how true is this news and also roughly when it will happen too.

there will definitely be new models released, but not until next year at least. the only things that's coming out by this year is the D2H, the SB800 speedlight and the new DX lenses. anyway, even if Nikon announces new models tomorrow, i don't think stocks will be avail until next year.

sadness · 19th November 2003

Originally Posted by HelmetBox

its reassuring to both the big players.

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...ht=canon+4%2F3

Don't know how true anyway. But its always nice to have hope to hold on to.

hello brother!

have u read that email from brother blurblock? that email frm the canon's manager is only reassuring customers like us that Canon won't dive into 4/3 system! which is sadly, expected.

but nowhere in that email states that Canon are not going to change their lens mount.. (which is pretty often but kinda slowed down lately, which is good for Canon users.)

don't tell me Canon got something up its sleeves?? heh heh
who knows?

HelmetBox · 19th November 2003

Originally Posted by sadness

hello brother!

have u read that email from brother blurblock? that email frm the canon's manager is only reassuring customers like us that Canon won't dive into 4/3 system! which is sadly, expected.

but nowhere in that email states that Canon are not going to change their lens mount.. (which is pretty often but kinda slowed down lately, which is good for Canon users.)

don't tell me Canon got something up its sleeves?? heh heh
who knows?

Hi brother!

heheheeeeee

I was referring to the 4/3 lens mount. But from what is written, it also appears like they won't do such a thing as change lens mount as they want compatibility with their current line of accessories. If they change maybe it would be for compatibility with even more lenses? Which in this case will not be a problem since the current lenses will work?

Anyway as I say, also donnoe the mail real or not. hehe

Okay, now we're drifting OT

Watcher · 19th November 2003

Originally Posted by ehcsim

Hi Cheesecake,
Well, I need to find out 2 things.

1) To figure any strong strong points for Nikon D100 compare to Canon EOS-10D. Many shopkeepers ask me to buy Canon EOS-10D than Nikon D100.

2) I heard there is possibility of new Nikon D70, D75 or D200 is coming. So to gather how true is this news and also roughly when it will happen too.

Regards ehcsim

1) because they earn higher commission or they know only how to sell it.

2) Like what other said. Nothing until at least Feb before any announcements. A photo in my camera is worth more than two not taken.

As for the "underexpose" thing, it is NOT underexpose. A D100 meters almost identically to a light meter. The camera is just being conservative and not blow out highlights. Given that the current range of cameras (D100, 10D, 300D) have about 7 f-stops of dynamic range, it is critical as details can be recovered when it is darker; blown highlights cannot ever be recovered.

As for the noise issue, check out DP Review. Your assumptions are totally wrong. Phil's noise analysis showed that D100 and 10D have approximatly the same amount of noise until ISO 1600 where 10D wins out by small amount, but after that, D100 is the winner, all the way. Don't forget that D100 has ISO 6400 equivalent that is not present on any of Canon's offering.

Actually, the best thing is for you to try it out. If you want, you should read both Nikon and Canon forum on DP review. This question as been ask soooo many times, just do a search...

ehcsim · 20th November 2003

Hi guys,
I am glad that I have many feedback.

- I know the possiblities of D70, D75 or D200 coming soon is in the thin air, but not harm checking. Nokin D100 was release on 21 Feb'02, close to 2 years now...

Nikon
- Great Larry feedback on " under exposure " and some insight on vendor & announcement.

Canon
- For 300D, this does not mean it is a bad camera!! Cost is the de-factor here.
- Don't like the pentamirror, darker view finder
- Plastic body, I might just scrap it easily overtime.
- Less raw buffer, 9 shot raw buffer vs. 4 shot raw buffer
- Mirror lock up vs. no mirror lock up
- No flash exposure compensation, non-selectable autofocus modes.
- No seperate selectable metering, no custom functions.
- No quick control dial, no assist button.

Fujifilm S2 Pro
- I will take a look on it and compare with Nikon D100 performance.
- Only thing bugg me a lot is the 2 different set of batteries now.

Olympus E-1
- It is only 4/3 system in the market and with fewer lens available now.
- Too new to consider for risk investmentlah...

Well come back to lens,...
- Generally, Canon lens are more expensive cause there is a motor in their lens. Nikon camera has motor in its body. Therefore possible cheaper cost unless it is AF-S type.
- I am still review the need to purchase F2.8 lens. It is fast len and better DOF. But many time more expensive for a given focal length.
- But since Digital SLR has a multiplier factor and therefore it is not using the full rear len element diameter for standard len, not DX type.
- Len is normally expensive due to the assurance of the best possible photo quality across its len area. So if digital SLR is not going to use the full rear len element diameter, normal lens should give a similar sharpness compared to expensive lens.
- But in term of DOF and speed, F2.8 is still better.
Regards ehcsim

hackie · 20th November 2003

at least nikon has 2 cheaper 80-200/2.8 versions, the 1 touch n 2 touch.. :P

as for Fuji S2, the 2 different sets of batteries really doesn't bother me at all! without the CR123, at most the battery indicator is inaccurate and u can't use ur onboard flash.. but who cares, when i can still shoot 300+ pics wif 1 set of 2100mAH AAs n the hotshoe is there for ur ext flash for controlled lighting..
when travelling, AAs n CR123 are easily available n cheaper, rather than proprietry lithium batts..

johnyu · 20th November 2003

Effective DOF on DSLR is deeper. Thus, it's harder to get nice out of focus background for portraits with f2.8. (See my post at http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...t=50797&page=2 )

Let me be a devil advocate on a Nikon forum (I'm a Nikon SLR user):

If one doesn't have an existing system to start with, I believe s/he should consider Canon seriously. Canon has been havng an edge in technologies among the other big manufacturers, including Nikon. (Considering that Canon is the 2nd top company in the world filing the most US patents and does all sort of things outside photography that Nikon doesn't, it is understandable. e.g. Technologies invented for photocopiers can be "reused" in cameras.) So far, every other manufacturer, probably excluding Sony, are playing only catch up with Canon in digital.

My only concern with Canon is it hasn't committed to a fixed FOV factor (Nikon's 1.5x). It makes it hard for a person "graduating" from a low-end body, say 300D, and move to a high-end body (e.g. 1Ds). The set of carefully selected lenses will have a different FOV on a different body...

19th November 2003	#1
ehcsim Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 62	Purchase Decision Between Nikon D100 & Canon EOS-10D Hi, I am new in the club. Currently I am using Nikon Coolpix 5000 for my photography hobby. Of course the camera does have limitation compared with SLR camera performance. I am now looking at Nikon D100 and Canon EOS-10D digital SLR. The performance of these 2 cameras are quite similar in most aspects. My application is mainly on - moving objects like people walking in the street, - sharp individual portrait, - Low light photography and some macro shots. I know some of the facts from the web site discussion, as below. But please kindly advise me the following - Is there any critical or strong points that I must take note? - Is this a good time to buy? Nikon D75, D70 or D200 is coming? D100 Points - Under exposure, normally corrected by +0.3 to +0.7 compensation - High-impact plastic / rubber ( Metal sub-structure ) - Visible noise from ISO 800 onwards - Unclear continuous servo AF, automatically tracking moving subjects? + Better grip & spot metering + Instant power up, < 0.1 sec Canon EOS-10D Points - Over exposure and blow highlights - Metal body but does not feel as good as the D100 body - Some AF issue, especially low light? + Minimum noise at ISO1600, Digi processor acts? Regards ehcsim Last edited by ehcsim; 19th November 2003 at 02:30 PM.

19th November 2003	#2
Cheesecake Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: I live in a haunted house!!!!! Posts: 12,835	FujiFilm FinePix S2Pro? ur best bet! actually, what do u expect from posting on a Nikon forum? 9 out of 10 will tell u either D100 or S2Pro... the last one is considering changing systems to oly's 4/3. haha it is all personal preference. __________________ You'll Never Walk Alone! 初恋的感觉杀很大!

19th November 2003	#5
Cheesecake Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: I live in a haunted house!!!!! Posts: 12,835	hopefully some kind souls with D100 will be able to direct you... i'm only limited to S2Pro.... sorry, can't help you much. Canon's lenses are seemingly more expensive than Nikon's and who knows, Canon might change their lens mount anytime soon.... u'll never know! haha __________________ You'll Never Walk Alone! 初恋的感觉杀很大!

19th November 2003	#9
Cheesecake Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: I live in a haunted house!!!!! Posts: 12,835	well, it can't be helped could it? haha it is indeed reassuring for Canon users. __________________ You'll Never Walk Alone! 初恋的感觉杀很大!

19th November 2003	#4
HelmetBox Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,312	Why nvr consider Canon 300D? have you read the reviews for the cameras Here ? May help you decide.

19th November 2003	#10
Royce Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 537	For me it was a no-brainer. I already had Nikon film system and had invested too much in my lenses to consider changing camps. So went with D100. Now that I know the camera pretty well, I love it. But as you don't really have any compelling reason with either Nikon or Canon, why limit yourself to either? One system that I'm quite interested in is the Olympus E-1. I've not read any reviews for it, but the advertising material on it sounds pretty impressive. Not sure how much $ it is. It's marketed as a pro system so may be expensive. Nikon haven't made any announcements as to the successor to the D100. If I remember correctly though, they said they wouldn't release new cameras more frequently than every 2 years. PM me if you have specific D100 questions.

20th November 2003	#18
ehcsim Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 62	Hi guys, I am glad that I have many feedback. - I know the possiblities of D70, D75 or D200 coming soon is in the thin air, but not harm checking. Nokin D100 was release on 21 Feb'02, close to 2 years now... Nikon - Great Larry feedback on " under exposure " and some insight on vendor & announcement. Canon - For 300D, this does not mean it is a bad camera!! Cost is the de-factor here. - Don't like the pentamirror, darker view finder - Plastic body, I might just scrap it easily overtime. - Less raw buffer, 9 shot raw buffer vs. 4 shot raw buffer - Mirror lock up vs. no mirror lock up - No flash exposure compensation, non-selectable autofocus modes. - No seperate selectable metering, no custom functions. - No quick control dial, no assist button. Fujifilm S2 Pro - I will take a look on it and compare with Nikon D100 performance. - Only thing bugg me a lot is the 2 different set of batteries now. Olympus E-1 - It is only 4/3 system in the market and with fewer lens available now. - Too new to consider for risk investmentlah... Well come back to lens,... - Generally, Canon lens are more expensive cause there is a motor in their lens. Nikon camera has motor in its body. Therefore possible cheaper cost unless it is AF-S type. - I am still review the need to purchase F2.8 lens. It is fast len and better DOF. But many time more expensive for a given focal length. - But since Digital SLR has a multiplier factor and therefore it is not using the full rear len element diameter for standard len, not DX type. - Len is normally expensive due to the assurance of the best possible photo quality across its len area. So if digital SLR is not going to use the full rear len element diameter, normal lens should give a similar sharpness compared to expensive lens. - But in term of DOF and speed, F2.8 is still better. Regards ehcsim

20th November 2003	#19
hackie Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 851	at least nikon has 2 cheaper 80-200/2.8 versions, the 1 touch n 2 touch.. :P as for Fuji S2, the 2 different sets of batteries really doesn't bother me at all! without the CR123, at most the battery indicator is inaccurate and u can't use ur onboard flash.. but who cares, when i can still shoot 300+ pics wif 1 set of 2100mAH AAs n the hotshoe is there for ur ext flash for controlled lighting.. when travelling, AAs n CR123 are easily available n cheaper, rather than proprietry lithium batts..

20th November 2003	#20
johnyu Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 316	Effective DOF on DSLR is deeper. Thus, it's harder to get nice out of focus background for portraits with f2.8. (See my post at http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...t=50797&page=2 ) Let me be a devil advocate on a Nikon forum (I'm a Nikon SLR user): If one doesn't have an existing system to start with, I believe s/he should consider Canon seriously. Canon has been havng an edge in technologies among the other big manufacturers, including Nikon. (Considering that Canon is the 2nd top company in the world filing the most US patents and does all sort of things outside photography that Nikon doesn't, it is understandable. e.g. Technologies invented for photocopiers can be "reused" in cameras.) So far, every other manufacturer, probably excluding Sony, are playing only catch up with Canon in digital. My only concern with Canon is it hasn't committed to a fixed FOV factor (Nikon's 1.5x). It makes it hard for a person "graduating" from a low-end body, say 300D, and move to a high-end body (e.g. 1Ds). The set of carefully selected lenses will have a different FOV on a different body...