Is the Industar-61 L/D len really radioactive? Here's the finding.

[whoelse]

From Alfred's Camera Page:

"In the spring of 2001 when I was still in high school, my physics class had a radiation workshop. A guy from an Amsterdam university came by to help us do all kinds of junior physics tests about radioactive contamination, X-rays, detection, and other related subjects.

A couple of days before the workshop I remembered reading something on the Internet about the FED-5 and its lens being slightly radioactive (seems to be an eternal debate), so like a good komsomol, I decided to take mine along to see if I could conduct some experiments to settle this once and for all. As the Russians say, doveryai no proveryai, trust but verify...

There are basically two reasons why the FED-5 and its lens, the Industar-61L/D, could be radioactive. One is that the Industar contains potentially radioactive lanthane glass. The second is that both were manufactured in the Ukraine, meaning that they could bear traces of the 1986 nuclear disaster in Chernobyl. (Admittedly a long shot, but you never know.)

The rare earth element lanthane, or La as it's known in the table of the elements, has atomic weight 57 and has two isotopes. One is non-radioactive and dominates 99,92 percent of the time. The other is the radioactive La-138 that comprises the leftover 0,08 percent. La-138 is a Beta-minus radiator, meaning that it emits electrons with a waylength (in air) of about four feet. Its level of radioactivity is very low, because its half-life time is in the order of 110 billion years.

At the workshop, I asked if I could do some experiments on my funny little potentially radioactive Ukranian camera. The guy in charge gave me the green light (in fact he was compelled to watch), so I got out my FED and went to work.

First I measured the background radiation, the ever-present radiation that comes either from radioactive materials around us or from cosmic particles. To measure its intensity I used a Geiger tube and an electronic counter. I found that the background radiation was in the order of eighteen to twenty ionisations per ten seconds. (The number of ionisations in the Geiger tube says something about the number of particles emitted on account of radioactivity. The unit of decay is the becquerel, which is defined as emitted particles per second.)

Then I placed the Geiger tube against the Industar-61L/D's glass surface and started the clock. The value I got was about twenty-five to twenty-eight ionisations per ten seconds. After subtracting the background radiation, that means the Industar-61L/D's radiation alone is responsible for around six to eight ionisations per ten seconds.

What does that mean? Most importantly, that the radiation coming from the Industar and the FED body is much less than the background radiation. That means that anybody who isn't affected by the three times stronger background radiation, won't be affected by that of the FED-5 and its lens. Also, because I measured the ionisations directly against the glass surface of the lens, I got a (much) higher reading than I would have gotten if I had measured on the back of the camera.

Concluding: as you'll sometimes read, the Industar-61L/D is indeed radioactive, but its radiation is already hard to make out against the background radiation, and comes nowhere near the levels you absorb when sunbathing or flying. So for all practical uses, the FED-5 with Industar-61L/D is perfectly safe."

[giddygoat]

that's a really nice bit of trivia to know.
thanks for the info.

[Andy Ho]

This is deep man but thanks for sharing. You just refreshed my memory about the terminologies in radioactivity.

Andy Ho

[whoelse]

Originally Posted by Andy Ho This is deep man but thanks for sharing. You just refreshed my memory about the terminologies in radioactivity. Andy Ho

I know nuts about radioactivity, cut&paste one lah. FM/AM radio maybe still okay
Anyone know the reason how does lanthane help in len's design? Why use lanthane? Curious...

[Andy Ho]

Originally Posted by whoelse I know nuts about radioactivity, cut&paste one lah. FM/AM radio maybe still okay Anyone know the reason how does lanthane help in len's design? Why use lanthane? Curious...

I wish I could "cut and paste" for your question but I have no idea where to "cut" it out from.

Andy Ho

[giddygoat]

Stolen from a webpage ( http://www.ktf-split.hr/periodni/en/la.html )
"Lanthanum is found with rare earths in monazite and bastnasite. Monazite sand typical contains 25% lanthanum. It is used in the electrodes of high-intensity, carbon-arc lights. Because it gives glass refractive properties, it is used in expensive camera lenses. The price of 99.9 % pure lanthanum pieces is 232.50 € for 100 g."

this one may be useful too, but "cheem"
http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/kevin/industar-61.htm

[whoelse]

Originally Posted by giddygoat Stolen from a webpage ( http://www.ktf-split.hr/periodni/en/la.html ) "Lanthanum is found with rare earths in monazite and bastnasite. Monazite sand typical contains 25% lanthanum. It is used in the electrodes of high-intensity, carbon-arc lights. Because it gives glass refractive properties, it is used in expensive camera lenses. The price of 99.9 % pure lanthanum pieces is 232.50 € for 100 g." this one may be useful too, but "cheem" http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/kevin/industar-61.htm

"232.50 € for 100 g"? Wow, I got the FED5B with Industar-61 L/D at U$19 new!!
It's so far my very best len comparing with my bags of other Canon USM.

[darkavgr]

Originally Posted by whoelse "232.50 € for 100 g"? Wow, I got the FED5B with Industar-61 L/D at U$19 new!! It's so far my very best len comparing with my bags of other Canon USM.

Yeah I've the Industar 61 L/Z (I think).
Its the M42 version which I mate via adapters either to a Nikon F90x, FE or
Minolta x700.
Agree w you...one of the nicest color and sharp...
cheap..only $40 lens...
some sample pics here : http://www.crumbee.com/flowers.htm

dark

[whoelse]

Originally Posted by darkavgr Yeah I've the Industar 61 L/Z (I think). Its the M42 version which I mate via adapters either to a Nikon F90x, FE or Minolta x700. Agree w you...one of the nicest color and sharp... cheap..only $40 lens... some sample pics here : http://www.crumbee.com/flowers.htm dark

I took my FEB and my SLR to do some testing, shoot same subject with the two camera and when I compare them, the Industar-61 L/D is eyepoping, so sweet I feel like eating the flowers I taken.

[SNAG]

Just to ask, where did you guys get theis camera+lens?

[whoelse]

Originally Posted by SNAG Just to ask, where did you guys get theis camera+lens?

I got it from ebay. I bought things from ebay almost every month...

[darkavgr]

Originally Posted by whoelse I took my FEB and my SLR to do some testing, shoot same subject with the two camera and when I compare them, the Industar-61 L/D is eyepoping, so sweet I feel like eating the flowers I taken.

You shd also try the Helios 44M 58mm f2
Superb colors and sharp as well.
If focus and exposure is right, the pics pop up in your face.
Not sure if there is a LTM39 mount though.
Mine is M42.
US$15 on ebay, dirt cheap
Sometimes I wonder why I bought my Canon L lenses
haha...

[traveller]

Wah...got so much to buy from ebay? Got my konica s2 there think i bleeding liaoz...haha...

Originally Posted by whoelse I got it from ebay. I bought things from ebay almost every month...

[whoelse]

Originally Posted by darkavgr You shd also try the Helios 44M 58mm f2 Superb colors and sharp as well. If focus and exposure is right, the pics pop up in your face. Not sure if there is a LTM39 mount though. Mine is M42. US$15 on ebay, dirt cheap Sometimes I wonder why I bought my Canon L lenses haha...

I only tried the Helios 103 53mm for the KIEV rangefinder. The 44M is quite flat right? like the "pancake" len is it?

Wat cam u use it on? I'm thinking to buy some series of Russian len and use it on my Kmount via a M42 adapter -- dunno can buy the adapter in singapore or not.

Yeah, I also cannot find any of my canon usm that can match my Industar-61 alone. Many internet reviewers (non0-bias) seems to agree with it.

Funny is that there are so many people out there that are so mentally block. Beside what they have, anything difference or another brand is no good to them even for the fact that they have never use one before.

"No... I only use XXX brand, YYY brand is no good". If XXX is better then YYY, there will only be one manufacturer. Also engineers and knowledge move around, all they need to do is to have someone paid them a higher salary. Dunno what to say. (?!)

[traveller]

Then are the any converters for M42 to Canon EOS mount?

[whoelse]

Originally Posted by traveller Then are the any converters for M42 to Canon EOS mount?

I've seen some at ebay. Think a local guy selling quite afew M42 adapter for different mount. fotographix at lucky chinatown may have cos I heard he has lotsa M42 lens. Nv shop there b4 so need to verify... dunno that change alley shop have or not.

I think to note is that M42 are manual lens, so you will not get auto-focus.

[whoelse]

This site compared some lens including Pentax SMC, Takumar and older Industar-50.
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-...?msg_id=006E7x

There is some place that says: "I've always found the Industar to make very pleasant pictures; I haven't tried to analyze why....."

[darkavgr]

Originally Posted by whoelse I only tried the Helios 103 53mm for the KIEV rangefinder. The 44M is quite flat right? like the "pancake" len is it? Wat cam u use it on? I'm thinking to buy some series of Russian len and use it on my Kmount via a M42 adapter -- dunno can buy the adapter in singapore or not. Yeah, I also cannot find any of my canon usm that can match my Industar-61 alone. Many internet reviewers (non0-bias) seems to agree with it. Funny is that there are so many people out there that are so mentally block. Beside what they have, anything difference or another brand is no good to them even for the fact that they have never use one before. "No... I only use XXX brand, YYY brand is no good". If XXX is better then YYY, there will only be one manufacturer. Also engineers and knowledge move around, all they need to do is to have someone paid them a higher salary. Dunno what to say. (?!)

No..the Helios 44M 58mm f2 is not a pancake lens.
It looks like a normal lens, about the size of a standard 50mm lens, i.e small.
I use it on usually on my Nikon FE via Nikon-M42 adapter.
Sometimes I use my Industar on my Nikon F90X
Good thing about using the F90x is that the camera gives focus confirmation.
I'm bit **** eye la..not so good in split screens

You can get the Nikon-M42 adapter (with glass element) from Camera Workshop in Peninsula.
I bought an Minolta-M42 adapter (without glass element) from Camera Workshop about 3 mths ago for $30.

Yeah..I guess for some people photography is a snob hobby so they buy expensive L lenses to look good. For me even though I have L lense I find them to heavy hence not very practical.
Also the smaller feel of a manual body and fiddling w all the controls is FUN !

dark

[darkavgr]

Originally Posted by traveller Then are the any converters for M42 to Canon EOS mount?

Yes there are M42 to EOS adapters.
Note however that some EOS bodies cannot meter when you attach M42 lens.
For eg my Canon EOS 30 doesnt meter w my M42 lens.
Metering is at least 3 stops off.
The EOS 3 meters ok though.

Hence its better to use manual bodies for M42 lenses.
My Nikon FE and Minolta x700 works great w them !

darkavgr

[whoelse]

Originally Posted by darkavgr Yes there are M42 to EOS adapters. Note however that some EOS bodies cannot meter when you attach M42 lens. For eg my Canon EOS 30 doesnt meter w my M42 lens. Metering is at least 3 stops off. The EOS 3 meters ok though. Hence its better to use manual bodies for M42 lenses. My Nikon FE and Minolta x700 works great w them ! darkavgr

Goodness me! how many camera bodies you have? wat do you do? professional shooting for national geography isit? can i volunteer to help carry equipements for you f.o.c?

i'm thinking to buy a M42 to kmount adapter and buy more russian optics. camera workshop have them? why isn't there any russian kmount len? maybe there is I'm not sure.