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Thread: Flash too powderful

  1. #41
    Member agws1970's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by WhipLash View Post
    Hey guys, thanks for the great advice.

    Let me describe my setup. I was shooting in an enclosed space with high ceilings and coloured walls (so no bounce flash), shooting at f/2,8 (yupz, you got it right I wanted the bokeh). I don't have a light stand, so I was handholding the flash off to one side at the lowest output power. This makes it difficult to move the flash back (esp with the enclosed space). ISO was 100.

    So in summary, this are my options:

    Move flash further back - difficult if in enclosed space, but applicable in most situations
    Bounce flash / reflector - possible to use reflector
    Use diffuser or softbox - don't have either. Can improvise using cloth or paper though.
    Use smaller aperture - will affect bokeh, but can add blur in PP
    Feather the light

    Thanks again for your suggestions. Got to play around with my setup more I guess.
    You have an omnibounce right? why don't you use it in the upright position? Will definitely soften the light and lose about 2 stops of power. Exactly what you need I think.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Using a diffuser would be the simplest solution. Also, point the flash at the ceiling.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    think both camera and flash can be set, right? canon can't meh? use full manual setting lah

  4. #44

    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    you are giving wrong answer, exposure on flash light has not to do with the shutter speed, and if set at faster than max sync speed, the shutter will not open fully to record the flash across the whole sensor.
    Yeah you're right about that. Sorry TS my mind was preoccupied when I posted here.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    haha, ya, I guess this is the easiest option. flash at ceiling with OM and bounce card. Going to try this weekend!
    Canon 450D | Canon 17-55mm f2.8 IS USM | Canon 55-250mm f4-5.6 IS | 430EXII | Gitzo GT0541, 486RC2

  6. #46

    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by bartleby View Post
    Yeah you're right about that. Sorry TS my mind was preoccupied when I posted here.
    Haha, don't worry about it. No harm done... and it helped clarify some stuff
    Canon 450D | Canon 17-55mm f2.8 IS USM | Canon 55-250mm f4-5.6 IS | 430EXII | Gitzo GT0541, 486RC2

  7. #47
    Member Paiman74's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    So after all the discussion..what the outcome?? show us the pictures.

    Strobist style has no fix solutions, it is just limited by your creativity..

  8. #48
    Senior Member geraldkhoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by WhipLash View Post
    Hey guys, thanks for the great advice.

    Let me describe my setup. I was shooting in an enclosed space with high ceilings and coloured walls (so no bounce flash), shooting at f/2,8 (yupz, you got it right I wanted the bokeh). I don't have a light stand, so I was handholding the flash off to one side at the lowest output power. This makes it difficult to move the flash back (esp with the enclosed space). ISO was 100.

    So in summary, this are my options:

    Move flash further back - difficult if in enclosed space, but applicable in most situations
    Bounce flash / reflector - possible to use reflector
    Use diffuser or softbox - don't have either. Can improvise using cloth or paper though.
    Use smaller aperture - will affect bokeh, but can add blur in PP
    Feather the light

    Thanks again for your suggestions. Got to play around with my setup more I guess.
    Let me try and give you a simple work flow... but this is not a rule but a guideline. You can adjust any of the settings, but just something to start you off with...

    1. Set ISO to the required level (normally I start at lowest).

    2. Use the camera to meter the scene when you adjust the aperture and shutter speed by looking at the +/- section.

    3. Set aperture to the required amount (aperture controls the amount of light, esp. from the flash).
    - 3.1 If you want to use wide aperture (e.g. f/2.8), you can decrease flash power, decrease ISO, or use ND filter.

    4. Set to a shutter speed that does not pass the max sync speed (normally 1/200s). The shutter speed controls ambient light.
    - 4.1 If you need more ambient light, decrease shutter speed.
    --- 4.1.1 If shutter speed is so slow that cannot be handheld, use a tripod.
    - 4.2 If you need less ambient light, increase shutter speed.
    --- 4.2.1 If the shutter speed is at the max (e.g. 1/200s), you can use ND filter and/or decrease ISO.

    5. Set the flash sync speed to an amount and try it out.
    - 5.1 If you need more light from the flash, increase it or move the light closer (inverse sq law).
    --- 5.1.1 If you are at max power and need more light, you can add another flash, and/or increase ISO and/or decreased aperture f-number (bigger aperture).
    - 5.2 If you need less light from the flash, decrease it or move it further from the subject (inverse sq law).
    --- 5.2.1 If you cannot decrease it anymore, you can use ND filter, and/or decrease ISO, and/or increase aperture f-number (smaller aperture).

    6. If you want softer light, the size of the light source should be bigger in comparison to the subject and also the distance from the subject.

    Hope this helps
    Last edited by geraldkhoo; 9th May 2009 at 12:53 PM.
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  9. #49

    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by chalib View Post
    Why distance to the subject will not affect the flash power??? weird
    Distance will affect the flash power, but size of light source in relation to the subject will affect softness of light.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by chalib View Post
    Why distance to the subject will not affect the flash power??? weird
    He doesn't know the inverse square law formula.

    Get a reliable flash meter say...Gossen, Minolta or Sekonic. take out the guess work.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by cutecdo View Post
    Distance will affect the flash power, but size of light source in relation to the subject will affect softness of light.
    Thanks for the paraphrasing, was thinking hard on how to explain why the life will become "softer" through distance.

    Take a scenario of shooting hot-shoe flash portraiture on full-frame 50 mm vs 150 mm;

    On 50 mm you will definately need a huge diffuser like light-sphere to acheive a nice soft lighting.

    However on 150 mm, i would use a direct flash-head omni-bounce and acheive the better or equivalent.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by surrephoto View Post
    Thanks for the paraphrasing, was thinking hard on how to explain why the life will become "softer" through distance.

    Take a scenario of shooting hot-shoe flash portraiture on full-frame 50 mm vs 150 mm;

    On 50 mm you will definately need a huge diffuser like light-sphere to acheive a nice soft lighting.

    However on 150 mm, i would use a direct flash-head omni-bounce and acheive the better or equivalent.
    Hey there, I think you are still getting it wrong! Regardless of focal length you use, the "Softness" of light still depends on the size of your light source relative to subject.

  13. #53
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    softness of lights is related the to size of light source, not the power of light

    for instant, bigger softbox will have softer light compare to a smaller softbox at the same distance with the subject, but if you cut the distance between a smaller softbox and subject into half, you are increasing the size of the light source, so you will have much softer effect, TS kind of understand this, however, using a omnibounce, place in closer toward the subject will not have much effect, if the subject is fairly large, besides, the soft light effect of omnibounce is coming from bouncing the light in a enclose room.


    TS want to get the softer light, this is his primary goal, hence my #1 suggestion to him is increas the apperture without alterning the lighting set up.

    if he really want to get a softer light, can follow my #2 suggestion.
    Check out the link in my previous post.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  14. #54

    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    Check out the link in my previous post.
    Thanks catchlights

  15. #55
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    what ever happen to the good old, foc, macdonal tissue paper + a rubber band?
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  16. #56
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    what ever happen to the good old, foc, macdonal tissue paper + a rubber band?
    They scared they fire too fast and burn the tissue
    Michael Lim
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  17. #57
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    They scared they fire too fast and burn the tissue
    dont anyhow say hor, mac tissue paper very for diffusing flash one ok.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    dont anyhow say hor, mac tissue paper very for diffusing flash one ok.
    Most of Macs recipies have been changed. Too many short-cuts, cheap raw ingredients. Not the same as the good ol days liao.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    what ever happen to the good old, foc, macdonal tissue paper + a rubber band?
    whatever happened to the good ol' calculation by the GN?
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  20. #60

    Default Re: Flash too powderful

    Quote Originally Posted by surrephoto View Post
    I think on his flash it is the lowest flash power. (480EXI/II)
    hmm.. is there such a canon flash as 480ex? i know of 580ex/ex II and 420ex/430ex only.

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