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Thread: The present economic mess can be overcome

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb The present economic mess can be overcome

    One way you can do that....

    is to support President Obama in overcoming the present
    economic mess.

    Make yourself happy that you are contributing by doing one
    or more of the following. Anyone can add more ideas to the list.

    1. Go out to buy something that you have been holding back for sometimes.; a needed accessory for your camera system, a new dress, a new car, bike and so on.

    2. Give a dollar to people who are begging on the streets or to anyone who are singing on a wheelchair, playing on his harmonica, guitar or organ.

    3. Get a gift to your spouse, girlfriend, colleagues, or even your staff to show that you care.

    4. Go visit old folks homes and surprise them with your generosity.


  2. #2
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    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    Support for him? Well, I'm not an American for sure and neither I'm holding a green card.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    Who's gonna support me???

    Why don't CEOs/Chairmans/Directors/Ministers take a pay cut instead...

    After-all, their MULTI-MILLION dollar paycheques and bonuses can feed even more people if distributed right.

    Asking the lay person to keep the economy going by spending when the big shots are hoarding the loot is incredibly stupid.

    As it is, the current economic crisis is due to overspending by people who can't afford it and have to take loans...which they can't repay.
    Last edited by vince; 3rd May 2009 at 01:45 PM.
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    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    the Ministers still have their fat pay check as well...

  5. #5

    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    regarding point number 1:
    I don't understand why we are being told to go and consume more.
    The fact that asians spend less and save more is not a bad thing, perhaps it's a reflection of the fact that we don't buy more than we need.
    Is that a bad thing?

    How about a new economic paradigm based on the concept of a world that spends less and saves more? A more sustainable world probably, and less wasteful.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    Speaking of Obama...



    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    regarding point number 1:
    I don't understand why we are being told to go and consume more.
    The fact that asians spend less and save more is not a bad thing, perhaps it's a reflection of the fact that we don't buy more than we need.
    Is that a bad thing?

    How about a new economic paradigm based on the concept of a world that spends less and saves more? A more sustainable world probably, and less wasteful.
    According to Keynesian Economics, we have to spend more, as Consumption goes up, Aggregate Expenditure goes up, and so on so forth
    Last edited by GavinTing; 3rd May 2009 at 04:40 PM.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    i can understand the whole theory

    its a fact that money makes the world go round...

    imagine this... you and me spend a little less... that makes the taxi uncle or the restaurant owners or retail shops earn less...

    when the taxi uncle, they too spend less or eat out less... when they eat out less,hawkers earn less....when hawkers earn less, they have less to give to their children etc... then their kids will have less to spend on movies,clothes,fast food etc

    when the restaurant owners or retail shops makes less, they cut down on staff and advertising budget.... when that happens,more people become unemployed... and they spend less

    similarly other trades like advertising companies and products suppliers earns less because they have less jobs and less orders... when that happens, photographers' or graphic designers' or deliveryman's jobs gets affected...

    freelance photographers who are affected by the current crisis now have less jobs....wedding couples putting their wedding on hold or spending less on their wedding shoots means that photographers earns less and that means printers earns less too... that will inturn will affect the paper and printing-related suppliers...

    the list goes on and on... and the cycle goes on and on...

    when everyone earns less, they spend less.... when everyone's money is in the bank..where's the money gonna come from?

  8. #8

    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    Anyone ever thought of why should anyone on earth support Obama's policies when he doesn't listen to his team of economist?

    http://www.newsmax.com/politics/obam...20/194389.html

    He is taking a very big risk here.....

    Btw, obama is NOT trained in economics, he's a lawyer by profession in case anyone still doesn't know.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    how about we do something for ourselves... not helping Obama... not helping the rich CEO or the high ranking officials here... we do it for ourselves

    by spending..we are in fact not only helping the economy but also helping ourselves... if everyone con't not to spend, then our companies will slum even further...and more people will be out of job...

    it's a vicious cycle....

  10. #10

    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    Quote Originally Posted by photoart View Post
    i can understand the whole theory

    its a fact that money makes the world go round...

    imagine this... you and me spend a little less... that makes the taxi uncle or the restaurant owners or retail shops earn less...

    when the taxi uncle, they too spend less or eat out less... when they eat out less,hawkers earn less....when hawkers earn less, they have less to give to their children etc... then their kids will have less to spend on movies,clothes,fast food etc

    when the restaurant owners or retail shops makes less, they cut down on staff and advertising budget.... when that happens,more people become unemployed... and they spend less

    similarly other trades like advertising companies and products suppliers earns less because they have less jobs and less orders... when that happens, photographers' or graphic designers' or deliveryman's jobs gets affected...

    freelance photographers who are affected by the current crisis now have less jobs....wedding couples putting their wedding on hold or spending less on their wedding shoots means that photographers earns less and that means printers earns less too... that will inturn will affect the paper and printing-related suppliers...

    the list goes on and on... and the cycle goes on and on...

    when everyone earns less, they spend less.... when everyone's money is in the bank..where's the money gonna come from?
    then we'll make less money and spend less money.
    certain non-essential jobs and industries will disappear. no big deal.
    I believe the governments will still be involved in spending money to progress their own countries, be it in defence costs or investments in certain industries like energy and science and medicine as this will give them a leg up over other countries. Witness the space race between russia and USA which was abit of an ego-trip, each country trying to outdo each other.

    instead of focusing resources on consumer goods, money can be better invested on larger goals.
    that is what I believe.

  11. #11

    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    Quote Originally Posted by evo-lution View Post
    Anyone ever thought of why should anyone on earth support Obama's policies when he doesn't listen to his team of economist?

    http://www.newsmax.com/politics/obam...20/194389.html

    He is taking a very big risk here.....

    Btw, obama is NOT trained in economics, he's a lawyer by profession in case anyone still doesn't know.
    being an economist didn't help anyone prevent the financial crisis which was brewing for the longest time.

  12. #12

    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    Quote Originally Posted by photoart View Post
    how about we do something for ourselves... not helping Obama... not helping the rich CEO or the high ranking officials here... we do it for ourselves

    by spending..we are in fact not only helping the economy but also helping ourselves... if everyone con't not to spend, then our companies will slum even further...and more people will be out of job...

    it's a vicious cycle....
    how many companies in singapore are "our companies"?
    just think about the dollar that you spend at a shop, how much of it goes back to a foreign corporation?
    I think that one of the most effective ways of channeling money back into the LOCAL economy is to go out and EAT more, because in many food businesses the cost of materials brought in from overseas is relatively small, the rest of the costs are labour (nowadays mostly foreigners), overheads (mostly local landlords) and utilities and marketing (local)

    isn't it much better if we start excelling in some field and exporting our product/expertise in that field such that foreigners pay money for our products/expertise, that way we're getting foreign $$$ into the country rather than us spending money and having most of it sent overseas.

  13. #13

    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    Quote Originally Posted by forward View Post
    2. Give a dollar to people who are begging on the streets or to anyone who are singing on a wheelchair, playing on his harmonica, guitar or organ.
    let me share something that I learnt in life...

    -you see a beggar on the street...it can be a young kid, it can be an old man, it can be a person with a amputated leg/arm or even blind.. many types of beggers here and esp in poor countires.

    -the 1st thing we do is to dig into our pockets for a dollar or two and give it to them. We think we are doing a good deed. I used to do that all the time…but I stopped.

    In fact there’s more to what we all might think. Sometimes we think we are helping them, but sometimes we may be doing more harm than good. Sometimes we are feeding a bigger society problem.

    Some of these begging activities are organised by syndicates. Some kids are made to beg on the streets by the gangs because it’s lucrative. At the end of they day, almost all of the takings are taken away by the gang, the kids are just given very basic food. They are beaten up if they do not obey orders. If not the syndicates, its their parents that make them go begging.

    Beatings are considered minor, the serious gangs even cut off body parts or blind the beggars to make them look more pitiful.

    For the old beggars, some found it better paying by sitting along the streets than to slog all day working for a salary. They make use of people’s kindness as a weakness.

    There was a programme on a china TV station that shows the actual facts on these beggars. The TV crew ambushed nearby to film some beggars at work.

    These beggars will first plant a box of food in the rubbish bin, then they will walk away and returned moments later and pretend to dig into the bin and fish out a box of food and start eating it. Some even feed their kids with the food.

    Tourists passing-by will definitely be upset by the sight and will give them money.
    There are also many other tricks that these beggars use to make us part with our hard earned money.

    Now that I have stopped giving to every beggar that reaches out to me, I may be depriving a real poor person of some help.
    But I have also learnt something else in life….. “give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day. Teach the man how to fish and you will feed him for a lifetime”

    If we keep giving to these beggars, yes we might have solved them the meal problem for that day. But how much can we give. If they keep doing this for life, that’s the only thing they know. Their kids and the following generation will beg for their livelihood too.

    If they don’t get any money from begging, they will think of other ways. They will look for odd jobs and learn skills from the jobs.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    how many companies in singapore are "our companies"?
    just think about the dollar that you spend at a shop, how much of it goes back to a foreign corporation?

    isn't it much better if we start excelling in some field and exporting our product/expertise in that field such that foreigners pay money for our products/expertise, that way we're getting foreign $$$ into the country rather than us spending money and having most of it sent overseas.
    I think we are being quite narrow-minded....if we look at the bigger picture.. we will see that these foreign companies here are employing our people and renting our shop/office space, they are using our resources and having to pay for them. its still a cycle here.

    even if for evey dollar we spend, and "90cents goes overseas", we still have 10cents going on here. If these foreign companies do well they might expand into more branches and bigger offices. they employ more people and the cycle goes on. people in their country also benefits and they might just come to singapore for a holiday and spend here.

  15. #15

    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    then we'll make less money and spend less money.
    certain non-essential jobs and industries will disappear. no big deal.
    I believe the governments will still be involved in spending money to progress their own countries, be it in defence costs or investments in certain industries like energy and science and medicine as this will give them a leg up over other countries. Witness the space race between russia and USA which was abit of an ego-trip, each country trying to outdo each other.

    instead of focusing resources on consumer goods, money can be better invested on larger goals.
    that is what I believe.
    i have to disagree there's such thing as non-essential jobs and industries... we can all say that some consumer goods non-essential... but who's to say what is non-essential. I have arguments with my wife all the time.. over what? She think that me spending a few thousands on a DSLR/lens and thousands on a MACbook is non-essential(she says a $800 DSLR and a $899 laptop will do).... while i think that she spending thousand on a LV bag or 1carat diamond ring(which i call a piece of stone on a ring of metal) is non-essential.

    we can all say that the pornography film industry can be non-essential... but its a fact that filming a porn movie creates jobs.. materials have to be bought for the filming set... food have to be bought for the crew....... DVD disc have to be bought for burning the movies...plastic covers have to be purchased to wrap the final product.

    in the end, the director/producers/cast/handyman/crew/food supplier/dvd disc supplier/plastic supplier/the DVD seller..etc all makes money... in turn they will go out and spend more on food/colthes/diamonds/sports cars etc

    in turn food/colthes/diamonds/sports cars sellers all make money and they will go out and spend more on other consumer products......

    in turn other consumer products/service providers makes money and it will in one way or another affect the industry that you and me are in....
    Last edited by photoart; 3rd May 2009 at 08:16 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    i highly admire Mattlock's photographic style but I will have to strongly disagree with you on this matter.

    I don't know what industry you are in, but my wife and I are in our own business in the fashion retail industry. we were badly hit the past few months because people are holding back spending.

    as a result and to cut cost, we have to let our permanant part timesales staff go(now she has no pay)...

    since less people are buying we are also using less plastic bags(hence my supplier also suffer a loss in business)

    since we are selling less dresses,we are using less fabric and the seamstress have less jobs(hence the fabric supplier and the seamstress earns less).

    we are not eating out because we find that's not essestial, and have since pack home cook food to work(hence the food stalls in our area earns at least $10 less daily).

    i have also totally cut down on buying new phototgraphic equipment,and i do not print out my photos on A3 Photo paper(hence spend less on ink and paper cartridge money)

    it's not that I don't want to spend, but with those employed people still drawing the same pay and spending less, we are affected and hence have to cut down too.

    I was in wedding photography for a brief moment, if people think that taking wedding photos is non-essential, then not only the photographer is affected ...all related industry like wedding gowns,printing and props will be affected

    now is the gobal village era.. we can't say singaporean just spend on singapore companies,make our own SGD and F-care the world... there are many people reliant on foreign companies for a living...many people buy foreign shares and buy/trade foreign goods....

    I say again, its' a cycle..what goes around comes around....if everyone keeps money in the bank,then there's not money to be made..soon everyone will be out of a job.
    Last edited by photoart; 3rd May 2009 at 08:52 PM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: The present economic mess can be overcome

    I want to thank everyone who has participated in this thread. Am glad that so many
    of you are in a way concerned about the current economic situation. However it's a
    choice that we can make whether we are able to contribute anything towards to an
    earlier recovery of the current recession.

    However here are some of my thoughts.

    1. Singapore needs to welcome more recession heroes who want to go out to help
    others with their experiences.

    2. In bad times like this many people could still learn from the previous financial crisis
    in 1997/1998 such as strengthening policies, regulations including increasing transparency.

    3. We live life from crisis to crisis by shifting our perspective like stop feeling victimized
    by what is happening. Having a wider perspective and being able to challenge the
    moment will lead us to learn more about ourselves as well as others.

    4. We need not follow the norm of accepting the emotional boundaries that have
    trapped us. We should stretch our consciousness to create a discovery of new faith
    and trust in our country creating a sense of not having a feeling of wealth denial.

    ---------------------------------
    "Prosperity is your birthright
    Be inspired about prosperity for yourself
    Thoughts are energy which attract to us
    a matching physical reality.
    Affirmations are a focused form of thoughts". - Prosperity Plan


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