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Thread: Are you ready to change the way you live?

  1. #61

    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Today too hot liao ... everyone needs to cool off.

    Skinny dipping anyone?
    Last edited by Dream Merchant; 25th April 2009 at 06:19 PM.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    Climate change and environmental issues is supposed to be a science. You get all the information you can, analyse it, then make the best possible decision. If you advocate a course of action, be it spreading awareness or whatnot, at least know some of the consequences and objectives.
    I agree with you ArchRival. Climate change, co2, and environmental issues are supposed to be a science. However we (meaning the normal layman) can only have an awareness of some of those consequences. If you have ever insured a house, you will note the insurance documents do not cover "acts of God".

    The correlation between climate change and global warming is a theory that now a significant number of scientists agree with. It is even said that those who advocated global warming now agree. These scientists are from a broad range of disciplines who spend decades studying circumstantial evidence as well as measured (ref IPY)

    As CRYN says

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    Umm. Actually the topic is no longer subjective.

    We MUST be prepared for climate change.

    IIRC Sg govt is already studying the use of dykes. And as individuals we must reduce unnessary excesses.

    Ultimately, even if not for the envrionment. It will be for economics. Just look at Katrina's cost to the economy.
    Why was President Bush so slow in responding to the Katerina alert? What were his scientific aids actually telling him? Possibly "hey president, there is a factor 5 huricane but we know these have tended to reduce in scale before they hit us so we don't need to panic people"...........The next factor 5 hurricane was to hit Florida. The govt did a state wide evacuation and the hurricane did reduce in force!!! (SODS law) However the govt learnt it was far more prudent to be safe then to be sorry.

    And from what I've read, worldwide, govts are looking at reducing CO2 emissions some more seriously than others.

    IMHO it shouldn't just be CO2 but we should be looking at reducing our personal pollution and our possible combined impact on a world that could shape it like Wally's world
    Last edited by Lady Ice; 25th April 2009 at 10:43 PM.
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  3. #63

    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Global warming and climate change is a science. But its hard to accept that human decisions to change their way of life can be easily made without factoring non-science based emotions. I would hardly call it romanticism.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Ice View Post
    Why was President Bush so slow in responding to the Katerina alert? What were his scientific aids actually telling him? Possibly "hey president, there is a factor 5 huricane but we know these have tended to reduce in scale before they hit us so we don't need to panic people"...........The next factor 5 hurricane was to hit Florida. The govt did a state wide evacuation and the hurricane did reduce in force!!! (SODS law) However the govt learnt it was far more prudent to be safe then to be sorry.

    And from what I've read, worldwide, govts are looking at reducing CO2 emissions some more seriously than others.

    IMHO it shouldn't just be CO2 but we should be looking at reducing our personal pollution and our possible combined impact on a world that could shape it like Wally's world
    sigh. Dudes, if you want to see what damage romantics are doing, here's an example.

    Often environmentalists will link CO2 to disasters like Katrina.

    And if you're a romantic, who think the solution is in reducing CO2 will lead to reducing the number/severity of storms, therefore saving lives/property, you're wrong. Consider one of the largest environmental movements in history, the Kyoto Protocol. Experts agree Kyoto is more of a symbolic gesture. In other words, pretty useless.

    Consider Katrina in New Orleans. 700 people dead from mostly a Cat 2/1 storm. Now consider a country like Taiwan. Taiwan often get typhoons with ratings of Cat 2/3. How many people died? Usually less than 100. Often just a few tens. What's the difference between Taiwan and New Orleans? It is the level of preparedness. Taiwan has storms every year and learnt how to deal with them. Simple things like ensuring proper drainage, proper flood control, nailing of roofs, evacuatations, etc

    These measures are way cheaper than Kyoto, and unlike Kyoto actually saves lives and property.

    So stop crapping about reducing environmental CO2/pollution emissions when more practical and useful things can be done. We already have a generation who think people died in Katrina because of global warming. It is not. People died because they were not prepared.

    And to prevent further loss of lives in similar ways the solution is not to reduce CO2/pollution, but to educate others, study and implement these preventive/precautionary measures in risky areas. Stop doing useless things like Earth Hour and instead get the priorities right. Or at the very least stop poisoning the minds of the next generation into thinking reducing CO2/pollution is the sole solution to every environmental problem.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tupi Guy View Post
    There is no denying that global warming is happening just as many other catastrophes and sufferings around the world (i.e. the plight of the Bangladeshis).
    If you just rewind to 30 years back, it was "There is no denying that global freezing is happening..." Back then, they were dead sure that the next ice age was imminent. You will be surprised that how things has changed 180 degrees just in a matter of decades.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahbian View Post
    Well, if your stand is that the popular view is the right view, then thats your choice.

    I'm not sure what you mean by the opposite idea of this film is, cause I don't know what your interpretation of the idea of this film is in the first place.

    What are you saying?
    Last edited by Jix; 28th April 2009 at 11:45 AM.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Ice View Post
    Why was President Bush so slow in responding to the Katerina alert? What were his scientific aids actually telling him? Possibly "hey president, there is a factor 5 huricane but we know these have tended to reduce in scale before they hit us so we don't need to panic people"...........The next factor 5 hurricane was to hit Florida. The govt did a state wide evacuation and the hurricane did reduce in force!!! (SODS law) However the govt learnt it was far more prudent to be safe then to be sorry.

    And from what I've read, worldwide, govts are looking at reducing CO2 emissions some more seriously than others.

    IMHO it shouldn't just be CO2 but we should be looking at reducing our personal pollution and our possible combined impact on a world that could shape it like Wally's world

    I think you forgot to mention that some parts of New Orleans are as low as 4 meters below sea level. So clearly, this is due to the topography of the place.

    How you relate Global Warming and Katrina is puzzling to me.

    You can google 'Mississippi' + 'Flood' and you will know that this has happened before.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jix View Post
    Really?

    Ive read recently that cows and sheep create more C02 than all the cars in the world just from farting. So what, are you going to kill all the cows?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jix View Post
    Or is methane? But it's even worse because methane is 20 times more harmful to the environment that CO2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jix View Post
    What do you mean exactly by 'providing another set if views'?

    That film is not 'another view' IMO. The fact that it's endorsed by Al Gore, Leonardo Di Caprio, Cameron Diaz and other Hollywood actors makes it the popular idea. The opposite idea of these films is the other point of view.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jix View Post
    I think you forgot to mention that some parts of New Orleans are as low as 4 meters below sea level. So clearly, this is due to the topography of the place.

    How you relate Global Warming and Katrina is puzzling to me.

    You can google 'Mississippi' + 'Flood' and you will know that this has happened before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jix View Post
    What are you saying?
    What I am not sure is your mixed messages your posts.

    Are you

    1) Against popular stars endorsing the movie
    2) Against the idea that global warming is happening
    3) Agree that global warming is happening but against the idea that we can do anything about global warming
    Last edited by ahbian; 28th April 2009 at 06:40 PM.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    sigh. Dudes, if you want to see what damage romantics are doing, here's an example.

    Often environmentalists will link CO2 to disasters like Katrina.

    And if you're a romantic, who think the solution is in reducing CO2 will lead to reducing the number/severity of storms, therefore saving lives/property, you're wrong. Consider one of the largest environmental movements in history, the Kyoto Protocol. Experts agree Kyoto is more of a symbolic gesture. In other words, pretty useless.

    Consider Katrina in New Orleans. 700 people dead from mostly a Cat 2/1 storm. Now consider a country like Taiwan. Taiwan often get typhoons with ratings of Cat 2/3. How many people died? Usually less than 100. Often just a few tens. What's the difference between Taiwan and New Orleans? It is the level of preparedness. Taiwan has storms every year and learnt how to deal with them. Simple things like ensuring proper drainage, proper flood control, nailing of roofs, evacuatations, etc

    These measures are way cheaper than Kyoto, and unlike Kyoto actually saves lives and property.

    So stop crapping about reducing environmental CO2/pollution emissions when more practical and useful things can be done. We already have a generation who think people died in Katrina because of global warming. It is not. People died because they were not prepared.

    And to prevent further loss of lives in similar ways the solution is not to reduce CO2/pollution, but to educate others, study and implement these preventive/precautionary measures in risky areas. Stop doing useless things like Earth Hour and instead get the priorities right. Or at the very least stop poisoning the minds of the next generation into thinking reducing CO2/pollution is the sole solution to every environmental problem.
    U hit the nail on the head (as highlighted)....

    nothing to do with CO2 or global warming...etc.

    We need to change... not because we can or cannot affect the weather but looking forward... with the sea level rising and weather swings more wild... we will lose other resources such as water and agri-land... and with oil supply consumed and depleting more rapidly... we will be faced with a world that cannot sustain the total population...

    All the talk about CO2 emission is blindsiding us on our dependence on synthetic products that will bring modern economy to a grinding halt....

    look at it this way... energy, we can always use renewable sources... what if airplane/ships/cars/factories runs out of lubrication oil/plastics...etc... use butter?
    Last edited by CYRN; 28th April 2009 at 12:56 PM.
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  10. #70

    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jix View Post
    I think you forgot to mention that some parts of New Orleans are as low as 4 meters below sea level. So clearly, this is due to the topography of the place.

    How you relate Global Warming and Katrina is puzzling to me.

    You can google 'Mississippi' + 'Flood' and you will know that this has happened before.
    This is also an example of resistance to change....

    Do people think that the condition will be better or worse?

    Of course we assume for the worse... in this case, why is the population still rooted and not starting to move in-land to higher grounds since topography normally don't change much and climate is not making things easier and possibly much more costly.
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  11. #71
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    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    This is also an example of resistance to change....

    Do people think that the condition will be better or worse?

    Of course we assume for the worse... in this case, why is the population still rooted and not starting to move in-land to higher grounds since topography normally don't change much and climate is not making things easier and possibly much more costly.
    was there a resistance to move to higher grounds?

    btw, there are parts of S'pore that are prone to minor floods annually, like Thomson Rd near the nursary & parts of Chinatown...

    sometimes not say 1 2 move just move wan. talking about low ground, its not like train & other underground tunnels will be flooded 1st mah.
    have u seen the "light" yet?

  12. #72

    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    was there a resistance to move to higher grounds?

    btw, there are parts of S'pore that are prone to minor floods annually, like Thomson Rd near the nursary & parts of Chinatown...

    sometimes not say 1 2 move just move wan. talking about low ground, its not like train & other underground tunnels will be flooded 1st mah.
    Singapore... it's not as if we got place to move... unless you consider Mt-Faber or BT Hill.

    Nope.. As mentioned, Sg is (IIRC) looking at a dyke system. But are studying other options as well.

    As for those mentioned countries... ya... cuz no one wants to put the head on the chopping board...not popular. State govt can always plan expansion in high grounds but it might not not be popular cuz major commerce still relies on sea.

    Even in small country like Sg, our land already segmented into various "districts" with the respective values relative to it's distance from city center... more so in bigger countries like those mentioned.

    *edit* To add on, why stay at estuary when a couple of hundred KM away have height elevation of 90m+ at the border of Louisiana and Mississippi? (rough gauge from GE)... isn't this resistance to change because of convinence?
    Last edited by CYRN; 28th April 2009 at 02:37 PM.
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  13. #73

    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    This is also an example of resistance to change....

    Do people think that the condition will be better or worse?

    Of course we assume for the worse... in this case, why is the population still rooted and not starting to move in-land to higher grounds since topography normally don't change much and climate is not making things easier and possibly much more costly.

    You hammered the nail home.

    The idea is the readiness to change. Be it in big ways or small ways. There will always be resistance to change (since the beginning of time), stepping out of comfort zone is never easy, just like what you said about staying on at the estuary despite the high grounds being just a couple of hundred km away.

    So it is back to the topic. Are we ready to change the way we live? I too, am guilty of resisting change due to convenience (like using plastic bags when I could have brought my own bag).
    So, I am wondering, what then is the tipping point?

    Reducing CO2 emission is not a solution at all if the root cause remains unresolved. Global warming is a consequence not an effect.
    Arch Rival said "stop poisoning the minds of the next generation into thinking reducing CO2/pollution is the sole solution to every environmental problem"
    Absolutely right, these will exist and continue to exist as they are consequences. If human actions don't change is small practical ways or most importantly, their mindsets, effects will continue. Whether or not their minds be poisoned by others or chemical gases, its still poison nevertheless. Whether or not it is spiral progression or downward spiral it depends on us.

    I think there are too many Red Herrings introduced in the midst of the discussion.

    Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Think big, start small.
    Dreams at Photoaid! Contact me, pls!

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    Singapore... it's not as if we got place to move... unless you consider Mt-Faber or BT Hill.

    Nope.. As mentioned, Sg is (IIRC) looking at a dyke system. But are studying other options as well.

    As for those mentioned countries... ya... cuz no one wants to put the head on the chopping board...not popular. State govt can always plan expansion in high grounds but it might not not be popular cuz major commerce still relies on sea.

    Even in small country like Sg, our land already segmented into various "districts" with the respective values relative to it's distance from city center... more so in bigger countries like those mentioned.

    *edit* To add on, why stay at estuary when a couple of hundred KM away have height elevation of 90m+ at the border of Louisiana and Mississippi? (rough gauge from GE)... isn't this resistance to change because of convinence?
    wah, u shift gear so fast, just to side step my question to u (i hope not)? not yet finish New Orleans, u talk S'pore liao?...

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    was there a resistance to move to higher grounds?
    in regards to New Orleans being flooded when hurricane Katrina struck...
    Last edited by sORe-EyEz; 28th April 2009 at 07:22 PM.
    have u seen the "light" yet?

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    wad e point asking people if they're ready to change or not, offer solutions...

    if this thread is about making a change, at page #4,...
    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    ...why not put up personal examples of wad 1 has done in the name of it (change)?
    if 1 truely believes in the cause, there should be (i assume) some thought that went into putting it into action.

    dun be like NATO...

    have u seen the "light" yet?

  16. #76

    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    I tink u missed my point. Im refering to long term state wide infrastructure planning.

    But to answer your point. When hurricane approaching you either move at the earliest opportunity or you "resist" change and take the risk in staying put.

    This is personal responsibility for personal safety. No need to wait for govt to tell you evacuate then you move. Right? Especially when decision for such massive evacuation isn't made without hesitation. So ya, I view it as personal resistance to change in daily routine even when it's evident that a hurricane is approaching.
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  17. #77

    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    wad e point asking people if they're ready to change or not, offer solutions...

    if this thread is about making a change, at page #4,...


    if 1 truely believes in the cause, there should be (i assume) some thought that went into putting it into action.

    dun be like NATO...

    First step in change for those affected by katrina.

    Relocate inland to higher ground.

    If dun wan to relocate. Invest in hurricane and flood friendly infrastructure. So instead of running, people can go hiding like those tornado prone areas in us.

    If still dun wan. I suggest everyone learn swimming and standby scuba gears.
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  18. #78

    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tupi Guy View Post
    You hammered the nail home.

    The idea is the readiness to change. Be it in big ways or small ways. There will always be resistance to change (since the beginning of time), stepping out of comfort zone is never easy, just like what you said about staying on at the estuary despite the high grounds being just a couple of hundred km away.

    So it is back to the topic. Are we ready to change the way we live? I too, am guilty of resisting change due to convenience (like using plastic bags when I could have brought my own bag).
    So, I am wondering, what then is the tipping point?

    Reducing CO2 emission is not a solution at all if the root cause remains unresolved. Global warming is a consequence not an effect.
    Arch Rival said "stop poisoning the minds of the next generation into thinking reducing CO2/pollution is the sole solution to every environmental problem"
    Absolutely right, these will exist and continue to exist as they are consequences. If human actions don't change is small practical ways or most importantly, their mindsets, effects will continue. Whether or not their minds be poisoned by others or chemical gases, its still poison nevertheless. Whether or not it is spiral progression or downward spiral it depends on us.

    I think there are too many Red Herrings introduced in the midst of the discussion.

    Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Think big, start small.
    Why you hopeless romantic you.........

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    I tink u missed my point. Im refering to long term state wide infrastructure planning.

    But to answer your point. When hurricane approaching you either move at the earliest opportunity or you "resist" change and take the risk in staying put.

    This is personal responsibility for personal safety. No need to wait for govt to tell you evacuate then you move. Right? Especially when decision for such massive evacuation isn't made without hesitation. So ya, I view it as personal resistance to change in daily routine even when it's evident that a hurricane is approaching.
    state wide infrastructure planning? please look at the thread title again. unless u are that influential...

    that is a simple way to see things, in the event of an evac on a personal level, 1 leaves many things behind, as landslides in Malaysia & fires in Australia has shown, there are reported looting. true or not i do not know, possible or not, why not?

    also, humans being humans do develope a strong attachment to their belongings, eg, a photo of their love 1s. a family heirloom (piano maybe?).

    yes we should exercise individual responsbility, unless u have intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the people of New Orleans, dun try to sound like u know them & their reasons for not doing something to prevent lose of lives.

    not waiting for govt to tell...? can u point out in a general safety practice (any kind) locals have adopted that is widely practised that is not govt initiated?

    on "... wait for govt to tell..." my part let me give u an example, of people risking catching the new strain of flu travelling to affected parts of the world in the name of work. ignoring personal safety & that other their family members they went, even if they get infected & spread that virus to their family members... reason, "gotta go, gotta go... *shrugs*"
    Last edited by sORe-EyEz; 29th April 2009 at 12:53 AM.
    have u seen the "light" yet?

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Are you ready to change the way you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    First step in change for those affected by katrina.

    Relocate inland to higher ground.

    If dun wan to relocate. Invest in hurricane and flood friendly infrastructure. So instead of running, people can go hiding like those tornado prone areas in us.

    If still dun wan. I suggest everyone learn swimming and standby scuba gears.
    sORe-EyEz, pretending to be a citizen of New Orleans replies... "yes, mayor. i will move to Mount (wad have u in New Orleans)! oso, can i buy a submarine with a heavily subsidised state discount?"

    dun need to do the Titanic "u jump, i jump (cheesey crap)"
    have u seen the "light" yet?

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