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Thread: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

  1. #81

    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    yes, real world models aren't defensive at all. whenever they get blasted by others, they just take it in their stride. but usually, it happens for a reason. yes, precisely because i know you that i'm shocked to see all this.

    as much as the model chooses the PGer for TFCDs, the PGer also chooses the model.

    i don't think it's very nice to be overly critical of others. of course photos are out here for people to see and comment. it's always easier to comment than doing the actual stuff itself. there's so much elements to look out for in the actual photoshoot, both for model and PGer. i think you should know better too as you model urself.

    of course, constructive comments is good for improvement. but, i think it's not nice to make insensitive remarks and personal attacks behind the LCD screen. CS-ers can comment anything, even a white blank paper. haha! some forumers can be really nasty, what i do is just to turn an eye away from them and go back analyzing the pics on where i went wrong.
    Last edited by happyfrog; 3rd May 2009 at 10:09 AM.

  2. #82
    vince123123
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    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Care to explain why the model has a right to ask for the photographer's portfolio in a paid shoot? Or are your referring to TFCDs, in which case I agree with you that both sides need to showcase their past works.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielli View Post
    I guess the girls do have a right to ask for the photog's portofolio (I didn't use the word model), like what night86mare said, if the photogs are serious, then there would be some shots to show. And if they don't, they can do what deadpoet does, meet up with the girl first and discuss about the shoot.


    I've heard of cases of girls being touched by photographers during TFCD inappropriately, and it's only usual for them to want to safeguard themselves from those who, as night86mare mentioned, needs more female presence in his life.


    Sorry if I offended anyone here. I'm still new to this forum and don't know if there's anything that can't be said openly.

  3. #83
    vince123123
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    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Don't be oversensitive about couple of pics to ruin a reputation. Haven't you seen bad shots of celebs before? If they can survive it, I don't see why a two bit "model" cannot.

    Next time you wish to pay a makeup artist to do your wedding makeup, I hope the MUA asks for your portfolio beforehand, otherwise hor, if you are the type to have acne outbreaks or super oily skin, she will reject you because you may spoil her reputation. Same thing when it is time for you to hire a wedding photographer. I think he should ask youf or your portfolio as well and show him whether you can pose or not; otherwise hor, you show your friends the pictures and they say "who take one?"; and his reputation go down the drain cos you can't pose or cos you don't look particularly photogenic.

    Taking an attitude of thinking you are that good to want to select your jobs at such an early stage in your career, is something you may want to reconsider.

    And, if you want to blast a certain individual, please state his name rather than do it in such an oblique way can? Have a bit more faith in what you say.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl852 View Post
    even for paid shoots, i always ask for the PGs portfolios beforehand. its not solely about "taking free pictures", it is about understanding and knowing the style of whom you're working with. it only takes a couple of pics to ruin a model's reputation. so, shouldn't we have the right to know?

    and who is to define whats a model? if you're all so high and mighty, and think you're a superbly good "photographer" (and please define photographer for me as well. any ah gao ah meow with a camera is it?) just go to those model agencies and pay instead of complaining so much **** here. this is clubsnap, not victoria's secrets runaway for goodness sake. (referring to a particular individual only)
    Last edited by vince123123; 3rd May 2009 at 11:14 AM.

  4. #84

    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Don't be oversensitive about couple of pics to ruin a reputation. Haven't you seen bad shots of celebs before? If they can survive it, I don't see why a two bit "model" cannot.

    Next time you wish to pay a makeup artist to do your wedding makeup, I hope the MUA asks for your portfolio beforehand, otherwise hor, if you are the to have acne outbreaks or super oily skin, she will reject you because you may spoil her reputation.

    And, if you want to blast a certain individual, please state his name rather than do it in such an oblique way can? Have a bit more faith in what you say.
    his replies are totally off as well. and sacarstic, so i don't see why i can't put it in such an oblique way. plus, in a way, people whom are not keeping up with this thread will not know whom im referring to which is good for him to a certain extent.

    i heard pgs talk about some photographers. they post horrible pics of the models on threads and when people say "hey, these pictures are really bad for the model. please take it down" they reply "i pay for the pictures, so why cant i post them up??" imagine you're the one whom pics are up there, so i still think that taking a look at the portfolio of the pg you work beforehand is a good thing. plus, beside avoiding having horrible pics of you taken, you get to understand the PG's style better.

    i won't reply the mua part, because i think thats OT already as complexions can perfected with proper editing. horrible pics taken and posted on the otherhand, is quite an irreversible process.
    Last edited by cheryl852; 3rd May 2009 at 11:15 AM.

  5. #85
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    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Care to explain why the model has a right to ask for the photographer's portfolio in a paid shoot? Or are your referring to TFCDs, in which case I agree with you that both sides need to showcase their past works.
    model wants to pick and choose job. it might not serve her well if she's fresh but if she's popular, then she can ask to see then choose if she wants your pictures or not.

    she can choose especially if it's a 1 to 1 personal kind of shoot. For example, if I want to pay a model to update my own portfolio, then she can ask me to show her my past work first before she decides if she wants to work with me. It's kind of a win-win I suppose because she can then see the style of shooting and whether or not it will suit her or make her look bad but me look good (esp if she's a sought after model).

    in the real world, however, it's usually no choice cause it's a matter of demand vs supply right? Also, if you're under contract, then also no choice. Eg. would be mediacorp artistes/celebrities vs magazine photographers...they can't choose who the photographer for the magazine is.

    But please, there shouldn't be any wars or battles between models and photographers...after all, we need each other to survive don't we? It's a mutualistic symbiotic relationship.

    So Peace!

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  6. #86
    Member vince's Avatar
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    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    As much as there are bad models to discuss, isn't this a thread akin to putting a powder keg next to a bonfire?
    the powder keg has exploded I'm afraid...

    i'm sure there are bad apples for both, photographers AND models.

    Wah I'm soooooo politically correct today...must be because I still lack sleep.
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  7. #87
    vince123123
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    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Sure thing, if she think she's that good, she can pick and choose all she wants. I'm just saying that as a newcomer, it may not be something she wants to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    model wants to pick and choose job. it might not serve her well if she's fresh but if she's popular, then she can ask to see then choose if she wants your pictures or not.

    she can choose especially if it's a 1 to 1 personal kind of shoot. For example, if I want to pay a model to update my own portfolio, then she can ask me to show her my past work first before she decides if she wants to work with me. It's kind of a win-win I suppose because she can then see the style of shooting and whether or not it will suit her or make her look bad but me look good (esp if she's a sought after model).

    in the real world, however, it's usually no choice cause it's a matter of demand vs supply right? Also, if you're under contract, then also no choice. Eg. would be mediacorp artistes/celebrities vs magazine photographers...they can't choose who the photographer for the magazine is.

    But please, there shouldn't be any wars or battles between models and photographers...after all, we need each other to survive don't we? It's a mutualistic symbiotic relationship.

    So Peace!

    Make love not war!

  8. #88
    vince123123
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    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Well that is your choice, I only know because he pm-ed me and told me things about you.

    As for posting of pics, my original stand applies, if more established poeple has surivived it, I don't see why you cannot. Again it is your choice.

    Finally, on the MUA part, read my paragraph again; I don't think you got my meaning. It is to be read in the context of YOUR wedding, where YOU are now paying another person for their services, and they are now, in deciding whether to take your money, assessing YOUR looks to see if it will hurt THEIR reputation.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl852 View Post
    his replies are totally off as well. and sacarstic, so i don't see why i can't put it in such an oblique way. plus, in a way, people whom are not keeping up with this thread will not know whom im referring to which is good for him to a certain extent.

    i heard pgs talk about some photographers. they post horrible pics of the models on threads and when people say "hey, these pictures are really bad for the model. please take it down" they reply "i pay for the pictures, so why cant i post them up??" imagine you're the one whom pics are up there, so i still think that taking a look at the portfolio of the pg you work beforehand is a good thing. plus, beside avoiding having horrible pics of you taken, you get to understand the PG's style better.

    i won't reply the mua part, because i think thats OT already as complexions can perfected with proper editing. horrible pics taken and posted on the otherhand, is quite an irreversible process.

  9. #89
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    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Sure thing, if she think she's that good, she can pick and choose all she wants. I'm just saying that as a newcomer, it may not be something she wants to do.
    Yeap...but well...to each their own la... must live and let live bro.

    people will always think that what they are doing is right, seldom do people knowingly do the wrong thing. Minus mischief and crime...
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  10. #90

    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Well that is your choice, I only know because he pm-ed me and told me things about you.

    As for posting of pics, my original stand applies, if more established poeple has surivived it, I don't see why you cannot. Again it is your choice.

    Finally, on the MUA part, read my paragraph again; I don't think you got my meaning. It is to be read in the context of YOUR wedding, where YOU are now paying another person for their services, and they are now, in deciding whether to take your money, assessing YOUR looks to see if it will hurt THEIR reputation.
    i got what u were trying to say, but its OT as i dont think such incidents have occured yet (at least not in my knowledge or not as common as the 'conflict' between PG and models)
    hence, it does nothing to suggest the root of the problem or to find a solution to solve this situation we're facing, unless you're trying to say that as people whom offer services, they have totally no rights to understand the situation they are working in/their potential clients/ and have no rights to reject or accept a buisness offer.
    Last edited by cheryl852; 3rd May 2009 at 11:49 AM.

  11. #91

    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Care to explain why the model has a right to ask for the photographer's portfolio in a paid shoot? Or are your referring to TFCDs, in which case I agree with you that both sides need to showcase their past works.
    I was referring to the TFCDs. For those organised group shoots, I'm not too sure if models can choose who's shooting them.

    I shall sit on the fence regarding paid shoots as I still don't know enough of both sides of the story to comment.

  12. #92

    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl852 View Post
    i heard pgs talk about some photographers. they post horrible pics of the models on threads and when people say "hey, these pictures are really bad for the model. please take it down" they reply "i pay for the pictures, so why cant i post them up??" imagine you're the one whom pics are up there, so i still think that taking a look at the portfolio of the pg you work beforehand is a good thing.
    Gal, not too long ago, there are a few photographers who will post, like 99 images of a "moller" here and frankly, 99 all cmi. I believe most members here have forgotten the mollers liao ... but surely we still can remember which photographers and believe me, all of them are quite good NOW
    always the Light, .... always.

  13. #93

    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    Gal, not too long ago, there are a few photographers who will post, like 99 images of a "moller" here and frankly, 99 all cmi. I believe most members here have forgotten the mollers liao ... but surely we still can remember which photographers and believe me, all of them are quite good NOW
    LOL. never heard of that. regarding the "posting bad pics", i heard it from one the senior member in cser a few weeks ago.
    but those are cases of PGs wh om accept critics and feedbacks i reckon. nevertheless, there will still be some whom can never improve/improve real slow as they refuse to accept constructive feedbacks.
    but still, to these PGs :P
    Last edited by cheryl852; 3rd May 2009 at 12:11 PM.

  14. #94

    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Quote Originally Posted by happyfrog View Post
    woah, this is getting intense...

    this thread is more like cheryl vs jtfied...

    what can i say? hmm...

    jtfied... i think just let it go. i guess there's little or no chemistry between the 2 of you. don't think she'll ever shoot with you. nor will you shoot her. just let it go and start shooting others. don't be traumatized just because of 1 incident.

    cheryl... i think you're being too defensive & also very offensive. real world models rarely behave the way you do. unless, of course... if you want to be declassified as a model and just be a CS forumer or CS-group photoshoot model, then it's okay. of course, i'm not saying all models have proper attitude. but, i think they are not critical of other people's work... once they piss anyone off... be it the MUA, the stylist or the photographer... most likely you'll be out already. this is how the industry works. just focus on modelling. i.e. poses, facial expression, etc for better pics. why make wars when there's still so much to work on?


    Wow! I thought everyone was going to cool down last night and wake up in the morning with good cheer. Isn’t everyone taking all this too seriously and taking the fun out of photography. Like most things in life we want to think that our profession is the most important and you are not considered professional unless you have all kinds of qualifications behind you to back you up. We in Singapore seem to have lost lots of fun in life. Just take my wife’s profession, a teacher. She’s a Form 6 or Pre U teacher. That does not mean that a kindergarten teacher is not in the same profession of teaching. She herself said that she admire more those that can have the patience to teach little kids than have the benefit like her to teach more mature students. Those kindergarten and primary school teachers know that you have to make learning fun or the kids will just switch off. So please, especially to our two protagonists on this thread, two of you have good points to make, but please be civil to each other, inject a few light hearted views and make photography fun for all. To JT-Fied, I find that if you inject a little light humor into the most bad attitude model on her poses, she will almost always gladly fulfill your request. To cheryl852, please do not be so hard on the novice photographers especially. If newbies, can be models or photographers, are just starting they may not have anything to show anyone, then it will be a chicken and egg situation. I am an Ah Pek and I still consider my self a novice as I stop my hobby because of work and family commitments. Now I am retired and have taken up photography again. Not sure whether I can cope with the aperture control/shutter speed/light metering/ etc. Thank God for Intelligent Auto/D lighting/Photoshop, etc. Oh no! Not forgetting the most useful EIS or OIS for an old bone shaker like me when I am looking at a gorgeous bird, up to you to decide whether feathered or human, through the lens. Make photography fun for all please!

  15. #95

    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    okay thanks alot will stop sounding offensive and defensive then.
    but srsly i've got nth against novice pgs to start with la. just that i got too into rebutting his points i reckon haha.

  16. #96
    Member vince's Avatar
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    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    At the end of the day, I believe that both parties, i.e. photographer and model have to realize that posting services here in Clubsnap, is more of a hobby than a ricebowl (to some it may be ricebowl but I'd rather doubt it).

    So they can choose to be unprofessional and nobody can really say anything about it...cause it's just what is is, a hobby/past-time/spare pocket money. But word of mouth can be both friend or foe...

    If it were truely a ricebowl thing, for models, they can't really state what kinds of shoots they do...be it lingerie, swimsuit etc...but at the same time, photographers which shoot these professional models are professionals themselves and not just hobbyists trying their hand at portraits unless he's one of those gazillionaires out there that can afford to pay...yes I still believe that everything and everyone has a price (my opinion, you can't change that).

    If the model has moral issues posing in swimsuits and lingerie, then fashion and modelling is definitely the wrong line of industry to be in.

    If the photographer only wants to shoot nudes/lingerie/swimsuits...might be a better idea to try to become Sports Illustrated/Playboy magazing photographer

    The bottom line is, professionals can't really pick and choose their assignments unless they're super high in demand like Cindy Crawford/Naomi Campbell types. Even then, the agency tends to decide what's best for them or their assignments so they really end up having not much say.

    This is Singapore...the demand for such things are pretty low cause the market is small...

    A good example would be a recent DJ that got the sack...unfortunately, as good as he is, he can't pick and choose jobs now when the economy is so bad...he just takes whatever comes along. Mouths need to be fed. So sometimes, pride has to be swallowed. Period.
    Last edited by vince; 3rd May 2009 at 01:35 PM.
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  17. #97
    vince123123
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    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    It is not OT as I'm trying to get you to understand how your request to view portfolio for paying jobs sounds like when YOU are the one being asked the question. It is easy to ask others to do something, but when the situation is reversed, I notice you very quickly decided to deflect the topic.

    What I'm saying is, if you want to ask your paymaster for his portfolio, then are you also agreeable to doing the same when it is your turn to be the paymaster?

    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl852 View Post
    i got what u were trying to say, but its OT as i dont think such incidents have occured yet (at least not in my knowledge or not as common as the 'conflict' between PG and models)
    hence, it does nothing to suggest the root of the problem or to find a solution to solve this situation we're facing, unless you're trying to say that as people whom offer services, they have totally no rights to understand the situation they are working in/their potential clients/ and have no rights to reject or accept a buisness offer.

  18. #98
    vince123123
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    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    I think this is a very balanced and objective view, and I second it.

    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    At the end of the day, I believe that both parties, i.e. photographer and model have to realize that posting services here in Clubsnap, is more of a hobby than a ricebowl (to some it may be ricebowl but I'd rather doubt it).

    So they can choose to be unprofessional and nobody can really say anything about it...cause it's just what is is, a hobby/past-time/spare pocket money. But word of mouth can be both friend or foe...

    If it were truely a ricebowl thing, for models, they can't really state what kinds of shoots they do...be it lingerie, swimsuit etc...but at the same time, photographers which shoot these professional models are professionals themselves and not just hobbyists trying their hand at portraits unless he's one of those gazillionaires out there that can afford to pay...yes I still believe that everything and everyone has a price (my opinion, you can't change that).

    If the model has moral issues posing in swimsuits and lingerie, then fashion and modelling is definitely the wrong line of industry to be in.

    If the photographer only wants to shoot nudes/lingerie/swimsuits...might be a better idea to try to become Sports Illustrated/Playboy magazing photographer

    The bottom line is, professionals can't really pick and choose their assignments unless they're super high in demand like Cindy Crawford/Naomi Campbell types. Even then, the agency tends to decide what's best for them or their assignments so they really end up having not much say.

    This is Singapore...the demand for such things are pretty low cause the market is small...

    A good example would be a recent DJ that got the sack...unfortunately, as good as he is, he can't pick and choose jobs now when the economy is so bad...he just takes whatever comes along. Mouths need to be fed. So sometimes, pride has to be swallowed. Period.

  19. #99

    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Care to explain why the model has a right to ask for the photographer's portfolio in a paid shoot? Or are your referring to TFCDs, in which case I agree with you that both sides need to showcase their past works.
    why not?

    i mean, she doesn't have the right to deny the photographer the pleasure of shooting her, that's about it, but there is nothing wrong in any random person x asking the photographer if can see the portfolio....

    if not, you build up portfolio for what? to keep and smile to yourself? i don't really get this point here, maybe you coudl explain in greater detail.

    of course, if the model asks rudely, then that's another story.

  20. #100

    Default Re: bad attitude of TFCD models/model wannabes

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    why not?

    i mean, she doesn't have the right to deny the photographer the pleasure of shooting her, that's about it, but there is nothing wrong in any random person x asking the photographer if can see the portfolio....

    if not, you build up portfolio for what? to keep and smile to yourself? i don't really get this point here, maybe you coudl explain in greater detail.

    of course, if the model asks rudely, then that's another story.
    If a photographer pays to shoot a model, why would the model need to see his prior work?

    A portfolio is so that you can show people who want to pay you to take photos, to show that you have the ability to deliver if they pay you.
    Meow!

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