For models who think that being a model is like being a DIVA/PRINCESS... please read below.
the thing is, you're talking about clubsnap here, not some elite fashion photography forum.
so we have no choice but to expand the net for both definitions.
anyways, even if i am a girl and not some diva-esque model from clubsnap photoshoots..... certainly i would think twice or thrice before letting any random guy shoot me out of the blue, no? and the same applies. in some sense, i think there is never anything wrong with anyone asking to view portfolio, because if you are a photographer serious about such things.... then you would have some shots to show.. and one can tell a lot from just the shots alone, even whether the guy is serious about photography or not, or just some hardup guy who needs more female presence in his life.
Last edited by night86mare; 2nd May 2009 at 04:06 PM.
so there are models and there are MODELS.
just as there are photogs and there are PHOTOGS.
the problem is;
most models think they are MODELS.
most photogs don't think they are PHOTOGS, but are aggrieved when models prefer to be shot by PHOTOGS.
once models piss off too many photogs, they may not even have any PHOTOGS to shoot them.
of course, once the model becomes a MODEL, then she will become nicer to photogs, but then she won't be able to be shot by photogs anyway because her agency will not allow it.
so, the moral of the story is;
it sucks to be a photog.
I've heard of cases of girls being touched by photographers during TFCD inappropriately, and it's only usual for them to want to safeguard themselves from those who, as night86mare mentioned, needs more female presence in his life.
Sorry if I offended anyone here. I'm still new to this forum and don't know if there's anything that can't be said openly.
even for paid shoots, i always ask for the PGs portfolios beforehand. its not solely about "taking free pictures", it is about understanding and knowing the style of whom you're working with. it only takes a couple of pics to ruin a model's reputation. so, shouldn't we have the right to know?
and who is to define whats a model? if you're all so high and mighty, and think you're a superbly good "photographer" (and please define photographer for me as well. any ah gao ah meow with a camera is it?) just go to those model agencies and pay instead of complaining so much **** here. this is clubsnap, not victoria's secrets runaway for goodness sake. (referring to a particular individual only)
Last edited by cheryl852; 2nd May 2009 at 09:00 PM.
Yawnz.... time to try something new...
its time for you to think of intellectual replies instead of dodging my logical explanations
thats a very loserish way of putting it fyi.
Ignorance is bliss i have moved on to better things
of coz. try shooting rocks but who knows, you might complain about them too!
breathe in.....breathe out....
Ah it takes two to tango,one without the other is also useless.
like I said, the term .... 'model' is often misused .... they are often hardly one in the making .. move on..its the school holidays ... its a seasonal thing
Anyways, my two cents worth on this topic.
I feel there are several reasons why SOME local models behaved in the way they do,as accounted by the people who contributed to this thread:~
1) money invested: Be the camera we are using is a 1000D or a 1D Mk III (I'm using Canon so...), it's surely a thousand(s) dollars investment photogs or GWCs(Guy With Cameras) are investing in the hobby/trade/etc with the lenses and whatnot accessories.
But look at the 'investment(s)' a model needs to put in? Time to plan their schedule, what they willing to do or don't do, how not to let their bf/'husbands'/'lao gongs' know they are getting shot by guys with long lenses, how to get good portfolio done without paying a cent by amateur photogs so they can impress workshops/group shoots/private shoots organisers and photogs who can pay them good money for their two to three hours per session of work.
2) they don't need the money: like the link happy frog gave earlier in the thread, overseas models, btw who can pose MUCH better, MORE open, MORE professional, are "working like dogs and earning peanuts." But our dear local girls who are in fact FLs in modelling are just mostly doing for fun and for the nice photos.
I have foreign models(one example is a British glamourous nude mode) who's coming to Singapore on modelling tours charging for 3 hours of engagement at the rate of 1 hour of engagement of a Singaporean girl, and come on, we all know if we can afford, we rather engage a foreign model than a local one cause we will have more exotic and much better pictures.
One of my principal (other than my signature below) in photography is "the most just delete the pictures loh". For our local models, it's more like "the most just don't pose loh"
3) I pose for you means I'm great: They think willingness to pose infront of the camera with big and long lens means they are the benefactor of the photog and they are the most gorgeous girl on earth, Sure! many local models are pretty and sexy, but not all can pose, yes, most can't pose to save their lives.
Willingness doesn't mean quality ladies.
4) We spoiling the market for ourselves: I just looked at the Services Wanted sub-forum in CS and the first 5 threads have four person looking for models for paid/group/TFCD models. Only one looking for a videographer.
Who else to blame except us.
In our desire to look for models we spoilt the market for fellow photogs and spoilt the models.
Sigh, may God forgive us.
Last edited by photographer20; 2nd May 2009 at 11:18 PM. Reason: thought of more things to say
It's Not What You Can Do, It's What You Can Show.
woah, this is getting intense...
this thread is more like cheryl vs jtfied...
what can i say? hmm...
jtfied... i think just let it go. i guess there's little or no chemistry between the 2 of you. don't think she'll ever shoot with you. nor will you shoot her. just let it go and start shooting others. don't be traumatized just because of 1 incident.
cheryl... i think you're being too defensive & also very offensive. real world models rarely behave the way you do. unless, of course... if you want to be declassified as a model and just be a CS forumer or CS-group photoshoot model, then it's okay. of course, i'm not saying all models have proper attitude. but, i think they are not critical of other people's work... once they piss anyone off... be it the MUA, the stylist or the photographer... most likely you'll be out already. this is how the industry works. just focus on modelling. i.e. poses, facial expression, etc for better pics. why make wars when there's still so much to work on?
PGer gets better looking through the lens.
Model gets better looking into the mirror.
Nobody gets anything fighting wars on forums.
Peace to CS.
Last edited by happyfrog; 3rd May 2009 at 09:05 AM.
i'm being defensive as he was being offensive, you know there's actually a friend of mine whom pmed him recommending him some friendly model but he simply replied the person saying that the model's not his "cup of tea". he's so choosy and here he is complaining about a model whom refused to help him!
reply to: real world models rarely behave the way you do
you met me before, i'm not the kind of person whom enjoys passing harsh criticisms and i thought you shld know better, i prefer to comment on how horrible i looked and how horrible i posed. rmb the tfcd we had? was my attitude that bad? this kind of "attitude" is only targeted to certain individuals and not to the majority. most models either don't have the guts to speak out, don't bother to speak out, or are afraid of offending people. the way you put it makes model sound like some money making machines whom simply have no brains and should only care about their physical attributes and their posing techniques. do understand that at the end of the day, we're ALL still humans whom embrace the fact that we have the freedom to speak. and like you said, i'm not even a proper model and probably won't be doing this for long. then why can't i voice my views?
anyway i think most 'models' here are keen to learn and have rather acceptable attitudes, it is only the minority. out of all the models you met, how many are actually unappreciative of your work and carol's makeup? i'm sure most of them do appreciate.
anyway i sincerely still believe that photos are not simply for PGs to appreciate, but they are viewed by the masses. hence, if a model feels like giving her own comments, i don't see why not (esp if you consider her not a model, then isn't she simply another person whom appreciates photography?) and just because she gives critics, it doesn't mean that she's not trying to constantly improve herself. i'm sure many "models" here are keen to learn, and willing to learn, and photographers should have the same attitude as well. thank god for the PGs i met, most of them asked me for constructive feedbacks, and gave me constructive feedbacks (including you). they are humble and feel that there's always room for improvement. isn't this the attitude we should all possess to ensure that we are constantly improving?
its not about making war, but rather making sense.
P/s: hope this doesn't sound offending. because i personally you & carol are both nice people. i just feel that i have to make my views heard
Last edited by cheryl852; 3rd May 2009 at 10:05 AM.