Visible noise at ISO800 for K20D?

ascii · 18th April 2009

Hi..

I noticed there are visible noise and grains at the photo i took with K20D at starting from ISO800. Even i view the photo with my camera LCD, the noise is still visible. I wonder this happen because of the high megapixels or CMOS sensor? Normally i set my camera to Natural, NR High ISO at "weakest" and NR slow shutter speed to "AUTO" with the latest firmware 1.03 and picture quality to jpeg 4 stars and 10MP.

I have been using my K100D Super and there is no problem with the noise/grains even i push the ISO up to 800. I supposed that K20D can handle noise very well up to 1600 based to the review i read online, but it seems visible noise/grains appear at ISO 800.Is this only happen to me or it is the same to you guys?? Please enlighten me. Thank you very much.

boyboy · 18th April 2009

"handle noise well" does not mean that there is no visible noise.

at anything above base ISO, there will be degradation of IQ if u pixel peep. but generally acceptable up til a certain ISO value. anyway, subjective lah..

my d300 produces usable images IMHO (i define as can print 4R, to my standard, which is different from yours) up to 3200 iso. but if i wanna submit to stock photography, anything above 800 is confirm gone case.

hope this sets your mind at ease. but perhaps you could post 100% crops to let other pentaxtians see if your noise is above normal

flowerpot · 18th April 2009

yap visible noise... but the details are still intact... its a compromise between noise reduction and keeping the details... anyway at 14MP, i can be sure once you resize it to the same level as 6MP, the image will be as clean as u can imagine...

ascii · 18th April 2009

Originally Posted by boyboy

"handle noise well" does not mean that there is no visible noise.

at anything above base ISO, there will be degradation of IQ if u pixel peep. but generally acceptable up til a certain ISO value. anyway, subjective lah..

my d300 produces usable images IMHO (i define as can print 4R, to my standard, which is different from yours) up to 3200 iso. but if i wanna submit to stock photography, anything above 800 is confirm gone case.

hope this sets your mind at ease. but perhaps you could post 100% crops to let other pentaxtians see if your noise is above normal

Thanks boy boy for your reply...
I'm not sure bout this caused K100D Super did'nt reveal much noise/grains although i push to ISO800.. but with K20D, at ISO800 noise/grains visible.. i try to upload a photo for your reference later on.Thanks

ascii · 18th April 2009

Originally Posted by flowerpot

yap visible noise... but the details are still intact... its a compromise between noise reduction and keeping the details... anyway at 14MP, i can be sure once you resize it to the same level as 6MP, the image will be as clean as u can imagine...

Oh.. it means this is most probably because of the size of the pixels that caused the noise?! I shoot a picture at 10MP and after pp and resize it to 800 x 600 and the picture is clean. Hmm... that means we cannot get clean pictures at 10MP?!

Gengh · 18th April 2009

Hmm... haven't done a side by side comparison, but just from my impressions there isn't very much of a difference between the ISO800 noise levels from my K100D and K20D. What I do know is that I cringe when I look at the ISO1600 noise from my K100D, but still find that from the K20D acceptable.

But considering that with the K20D you now have the option of choosing the amount of NR you want at high ISO, have you tried some stronger settings to see if you're happy with the results?

night86mare · 21st April 2009

post photos would be better, so we can get a better idea and a better basis for comparison.

noise is most apparent in shadow areas, even at iso1600, the k20d can produce very clean images, if you choose your subject and lighting very carefully.

anyways, i have used both, i am quite certain that when you resize equivalent, k20d is cleaner.

ascii · 21st April 2009

Thanks guys for your comment.... i found out the main reason why i see visible noise .. this is because of the software i used to view the photo will automatically compressed and sharpen the photo and it make the noise apparently visible . Now i changed to IRfan viewer...and it seems the pictures are quite smooth and less noise.

dnaxe · 22nd April 2009

Interesting, what were you using to view the images previously?

I found myself that the noise at 800 from the K20D is more noticeable (at 100%). However, If you look at both images (K100D/K20D) at the same screen size (i.e. equally zoomed in), the K20D is superior, even to ISO1600.

Also, if you're processing for printing, apparently noiseware does a great job with K20D images: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3363&p=8 (no personal experience - I haven't found the noise to be objectionable enough to have to use noise reducing software.)

18th April 2009	#1
ascii New Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 17	Visible noise at ISO800 for K20D? Hi.. I noticed there are visible noise and grains at the photo i took with K20D at starting from ISO800. Even i view the photo with my camera LCD, the noise is still visible. I wonder this happen because of the high megapixels or CMOS sensor? Normally i set my camera to Natural, NR High ISO at "weakest" and NR slow shutter speed to "AUTO" with the latest firmware 1.03 and picture quality to jpeg 4 stars and 10MP. I have been using my K100D Super and there is no problem with the noise/grains even i push the ISO up to 800. I supposed that K20D can handle noise very well up to 1600 based to the review i read online, but it seems visible noise/grains appear at ISO 800.Is this only happen to me or it is the same to you guys?? Please enlighten me. Thank you very much.

18th April 2009	#2
boyboy Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 549	Re: Visible noise at ISO800 for K20D? "handle noise well" does not mean that there is no visible noise. at anything above base ISO, there will be degradation of IQ if u pixel peep. but generally acceptable up til a certain ISO value. anyway, subjective lah.. my d300 produces usable images IMHO (i define as can print 4R, to my standard, which is different from yours) up to 3200 iso. but if i wanna submit to stock photography, anything above 800 is confirm gone case. hope this sets your mind at ease. but perhaps you could post 100% crops to let other pentaxtians see if your noise is above normal __________________ http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...9&l=8ea073cc13

18th April 2009	#3
flowerpot Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Both East n West Posts: 2,239	Re: Visible noise at ISO800 for K20D? yap visible noise... but the details are still intact... its a compromise between noise reduction and keeping the details... anyway at 14MP, i can be sure once you resize it to the same level as 6MP, the image will be as clean as u can imagine... __________________ ~Towards Sublime Gallery~

18th April 2009	#6
Gengh Contributor Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,158	Re: Visible noise at ISO800 for K20D? Hmm... haven't done a side by side comparison, but just from my impressions there isn't very much of a difference between the ISO800 noise levels from my K100D and K20D. What I do know is that I cringe when I look at the ISO1600 noise from my K100D, but still find that from the K20D acceptable. But considering that with the K20D you now have the option of choosing the amount of NR you want at high ISO, have you tried some stronger settings to see if you're happy with the results?

21st April 2009	#7
night86mare Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: in your mind Posts: 19,297	Re: Visible noise at ISO800 for K20D? post photos would be better, so we can get a better idea and a better basis for comparison. noise is most apparent in shadow areas, even at iso1600, the k20d can produce very clean images, if you choose your subject and lighting very carefully. anyways, i have used both, i am quite certain that when you resize equivalent, k20d is cleaner. __________________ Gallery \| Dreamscapes 09 Pentaxian 伪君子之所以更可憎

22nd April 2009	#9
dnaxe Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,210	Re: Visible noise at ISO800 for K20D? Interesting, what were you using to view the images previously? I found myself that the noise at 800 from the K20D is more noticeable (at 100%). However, If you look at both images (K100D/K20D) at the same screen size (i.e. equally zoomed in), the K20D is superior, even to ISO1600. Also, if you're processing for printing, apparently noiseware does a great job with K20D images: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3363&p=8 (no personal experience - I haven't found the noise to be objectionable enough to have to use noise reducing software.)