Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 114

Thread: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

  1. #61
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Farrer Park
    Posts
    989

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    I really do not understand what the fuss is all about.

    Just having 7 cards does not make one a big spender.
    Also, at different places, different cards can be used to get discounts.

    In Shanghai, the chief monk at the biggest temple there takes home US$14 million per year.

    Go figure.

  2. #62
    Moderator Clown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    3,779

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    the newer & fancier buildings place of worship really speak for themselves about how (much) money is spent. did someone say about not needing money? when there is an increase in numbers there is a need to cater to expansion- that expansion costs money.

    thanks 4 pointing out & making my point clearer. how does 1 go about defining donations & religious offerings?

    TIA.
    slight OT here, but..

    Religious offering are made by people giving money as offering to their God or deity or to offset their karma or something along that line on their own accord without being asked to. means when money goes from their hands to the religion, it's end of the story on their part. they wont care what is done to the money cuz to them, the money offered has transmuted into a spiritual offset in a sense.

    but Charity drive donations on the other hand is approaching the general population's benevolent nature (the impulse to do good deeds), directly asking them to give from their own pockets to give aid to a 'good cause'. this, by definition, will be accountable as the donors will have the expectation that the money will be used to help the people in need, as marketed by the donation drive. in this case, the donors still have an emotional or psychological attachment to the money donated and the last thing they'll want is to see 'their money' misused. (an interesting note is that this has very close ties with taxes, where people still feel an attachment to the money they gave to the gov. good example will be the "why am i feeling mistreated? i pay taxes too!" situation.)

    this is my understanding of this situation. others may have their interpretations but this is mine and i feel it explains the difference quite clearly.
    sigh.

  3. #63
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    bukit batok
    Posts
    5,468

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clown View Post
    slight OT here, but..

    Religious offering are made by people giving money as offering to their God or deity or to offset their karma or something along that line on their own accord without being asked to. means when money goes from their hands to the religion, it's end of the story on their part. they wont care what is done to the money cuz to them, the money offered has transmuted into a spiritual offset in a sense.

    but Charity drive donations on the other hand is approaching the general population's benevolent nature (the impulse to do good deeds), directly asking them to give from their own pockets to give aid to a 'good cause'. this, by definition, will be accountable as the donors will have the expectation that the money will be used to help the people in need, as marketed by the donation drive. in this case, the donors still have an emotional or psychological attachment to the money donated and the last thing they'll want is to see 'their money' misused. (an interesting note is that this has very close ties with taxes, where people still feel an attachment to the money they gave to the gov. good example will be the "why am i feeling mistreated? i pay taxes too!" situation.)

    this is my understanding of this situation. others may have their interpretations but this is mine and i feel it explains the difference quite clearly.
    i have never thought of this issue from this angle.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    then his question will be, where does he get the 10k in the 1st place?
    Monks also get paid mah. I think for an adult his age, having 10k in savings is nothing surprising even if he is a monk.
    When I do right, no one remembers. When I do wrong, no one ever forgets.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dovedo View Post
    On the Thursday April 16, 2009 edition of the Straits Times newspaper in the Home section, it was reported that the Ren CI Founder, Ming Yi had credit cards and had given supplementary credit cards to at least 3 other people.

    My question is that are monks allowed to have credit cards legally and morally(as according to buddhist beliefs) in Singapore and in other parts of the world? And are they allowed to give away supplementary credit cards? Cause this is the first time I have ever heard of a monk carrying a credit card!
    If so to say, then monks cannot take public transport... coz it's considered a luxury to them?

    Times are changing, so must they, in order to adapt to modern times.

    The main point here is that how they used it. Apparently this issue got out of hand because he didn't monitor the usage. He wasn't even sure how many supp cards were issued out...
    :: Nikon D90 | Tamron 17 - 50mm f2.8 VC | Nikkor 85mm f1.8| Nikkor 50mm f1.8 ::

  6. #66

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clown View Post
    slight OT here, but..

    Religious offering are made by people giving money as offering to their God or deity or to offset their karma or something along that line on their own accord without being asked to. means when money goes from their hands to the religion, it's end of the story on their part. they wont care what is done to the money cuz to them, the money offered has transmuted into a spiritual offset in a sense.

    but Charity drive donations on the other hand is approaching the general population's benevolent nature (the impulse to do good deeds), directly asking them to give from their own pockets to give aid to a 'good cause'. this, by definition, will be accountable as the donors will have the expectation that the money will be used to help the people in need, as marketed by the donation drive. in this case, the donors still have an emotional or psychological attachment to the money donated and the last thing they'll want is to see 'their money' misused. (an interesting note is that this has very close ties with taxes, where people still feel an attachment to the money they gave to the gov. good example will be the "why am i feeling mistreated? i pay taxes too!" situation.)

    this is my understanding of this situation. others may have their interpretations but this is mine and i feel it explains the difference quite clearly.
    that's the reason y i gave up donating to those shows long ago.
    If really wan to do good deed, donate it directly to the family, they will benefit better.

    Bad thing is donating thru the Charity orgs, the families in need are subjected to the Charity org's "approvals'
    :: Nikon D90 | Tamron 17 - 50mm f2.8 VC | Nikkor 85mm f1.8| Nikkor 50mm f1.8 ::

  7. #67
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    bukit batok
    Posts
    5,468

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    guys guys,

    remember the story of a young and an old monk crossing a river? the old monk piggy pack a young lady across the river. after that, the young one felt puzzle. after traveling for a while more, "why did master piggy pack the lady on his back, shouldnt monk not touch a female?" he asked. master replied "i see you are piggy packing the young lady and has yet to let her come down."

    get it?
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  8. #68
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    TPY
    Posts
    2,681

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    guys guys,

    remember the story of a young and an old monk crossing a river? the old monk piggy pack a young lady across the river. after that, the young one felt puzzle. after traveling for a while more, "why did master piggy pack the lady on his back, shouldnt monk not touch a female?" he asked. master replied "i see you are piggy packing the young lady and has yet to let her come down."

    get it?
    U should tell it to Mr Shi!

  9. #69

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    From what I know, there is this thing called "Vow of Poverty" or "Vow of celibacy" be it for monk or priest.

    So, if no vow taken, then its "business as usual", credit cards and all.

    You should have a look at the Vatican, the Pope has access to a jet, own currency, can issue passports, nevermind credit cards.........

    We all have different standards and definitions about how religious people should be.
    Canon 40D|EFS 17-55mm f/2.8 IS|70-200mm L f/4 IS|50&85mm f/1.8|EFS 10-22 f/3.5-4.5|580 EXII

  10. #70
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SGee
    Posts
    1,572

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clown View Post
    slight OT here, but..

    Religious offering are made by people giving money as offering to their God or deity or to offset their karma or something along that line on their own accord without being asked to. means when money goes from their hands to the religion, it's end of the story on their part. they wont care what is done to the money cuz to them, the money offered has transmuted into a spiritual offset in a sense.

    but Charity drive donations on the other hand is approaching the general population's benevolent nature (the impulse to do good deeds), directly asking them to give from their own pockets to give aid to a 'good cause'. this, by definition, will be accountable as the donors will have the expectation that the money will be used to help the people in need, as marketed by the donation drive. in this case, the donors still have an emotional or psychological attachment to the money donated and the last thing they'll want is to see 'their money' misused. (an interesting note is that this has very close ties with taxes, where people still feel an attachment to the money they gave to the gov. good example will be the "why am i feeling mistreated? i pay taxes too!" situation.)

    this is my understanding of this situation. others may have their interpretations but this is mine and i feel it explains the difference quite clearly.
    thanks for the reply. spelling out the differences between donations & religious offerings.

    about religious offerings, the crux of the matter is that its people who are left to decide how the money is spent. unless the offerings is not monetary, den not much issue here...

    people who made monetary religious offerings should be indirectly be responsible (eg, to exercise individual reponsiblility). since to err is human, there is always the risk of temptation. once the threshold is breached temptation sets in, so does the misuse of the offerings.

    if there is no issue how religious offerings are spent, this thread would not have come about, & no law to run afoul. despite the differences between donations (in general) & religious offerings, people who made financial contributions do not want that money abused. & those in charge of the money are no gods.
    have u seen the "light" yet?

  11. #71

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jukon View Post
    Mobile and IT products are not luxuries, they are just some equipments to help the monks work better.
    Cars like BMW, Mercedes, Volvo are out, a humble Toyota Vios is ok because the monks don't have time to walk barefoot from one point to another point.
    Cash is great and never enough. Cash can be used in many good ways eg, building temples and schools.
    Credit card is a convienent tool, we cannot expect the monks to carry tons of money around in the course of duties as they might be mistaken as "Ah Long"
    Condo is out they can stay in temples.

    To be a good monk it is very challenging.
    to be a monk IS a challenge. to challeng oneself to let go of worldly affairs. that's why they become a monk. not so that they can grow fat on offerings (monetary or otherwise, no distinction) from lay person. monks don build buildings. monks don build anything but faith in their believe. if buddha can meditate under a bodhi tree, i donno y monks of today can even meditate in a shack or a hdb room or someplace ppl give them for free. why build multi-million complexes ostensibly for the multitude when it's more like ego stroking exercise for them?
    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    Work? Do monks really work? for $$$? defeat purpose.

    Car is still a luxury while walking may not possible but there are still other means of transport like Buses n MRT but do they need to travel alot? everyday? So is cash they dun bulid temples and school everyday or alot of times. I know still need cash maybe for daily expenses in the temple etc...

    As a monk i dun think they have alot of things or very expensive to buy which they requires to bring out stacks of cash so credit cards is no need la...

    agree. totally agree. why does a monk need to travel here and there hor? if they want to be a travelling monk, they can just walk. if they want to walk to india, so be it. it can be done. that's faith in work. not luxury cars or fancy temples.

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    eh, other religions do hire staff. u can oso ask if they really work?
    i do agree in S'pore alone, a car is a luxury. but why single monks out? are they (among the few major religious organisations) the only ones who have cars?
    don compare with other religion pls...it could bring about...heightened sensitivities.


    on another note,technically, monks don really own the temple. they are merely the spiritual custodians. if want to maintain the temple or something, they would (should!) be a lay person handling finances and such. donno why singapore so different in approaches to places of worship vis-a-vis monks. in malaysia (at least in my town), the temple is run by lay person custodians. they collect donations. they cleans the temple (sometimes young monks in training does the cleaning). they organize stuffs for religious observances. basically, they are the management that runs the whole gamut of things. one thing they don do is meditate whole day long. oni monks did that and becoz of this, we were hard-pressed to see any monk walking about most of the time. oni in times of public prayers do they come out.

    relevance? well, just this: they are monks, and they don travel here and there despite being highly sought after to perform prayers and such, they own nothing, they owe nothing, and mostly they live in seclusion. compare that with this ren ci dude...
    おれのflickrださ

  12. #72

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    I've seen a monk carrying a 5d with a L lens attached, which he'll whip out for photos and hide behind his clothes after that... go wonder.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiruikage View Post
    agree. totally agree. why does a monk need to travel here and there hor? if they want to be a travelling monk, they can just walk. if they want to walk to india, so be it. it can be done. that's faith in work. not luxury cars or fancy temples.
    Waa.. You win.
    When I do right, no one remembers. When I do wrong, no one ever forgets.

  14. #74
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    248

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    We live in the 21st Century so even monks and nuns are globalised by now. Some monks are given hand phones by their devotees and the bills are paid for by their devotees. There is a monk in China who record music albums and donates his profits to charity. Is he dreaming of being a super star or he is merely using his talents to gain more money for charity? IIRC, the ren ci monk comes from a wealthy family so maybe his credit cards were applied when he wasn't a monk yet? Moreover he is the CEO of a hospital so i believe he is being paid right?

    Someone once asked me "are all monks vegetarians?" My reply was "yes" but i was told my answer is wrong! The correct answer is monks beg for alms. Whatever is being offered to them,they cannot reject and they have to thank you for the alms and then finish the food. At most after they finish the meat,they'll just vomit it all out. You know full well that they cannot consume meat yet you deliberately offer meat to them so it is not good karma for you.

    The late Pope wore prada shoes and was being driven around in BMW 7 series and Mercs S class. Go figure.

    I don't deny that the ren ci monk is bad in handling his finances so he has to face the music but i do not think it is wrong for a monk to carry many credit cards.
    Last edited by cowmera; 22nd April 2009 at 04:08 AM.
    I'm a cow with a camera

  15. #75
    Member kingfishers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    riverside of northwest
    Posts
    587

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    hi, What I have to says, In the wrong times and the wrong places. Why couldn't a monk carry a credit card, they are also human beings, need to eat and move around. Especially, in the present fast moving world. Or should only be subjected to forest and mountain for their living and moral cultivation to the highest enlightenment of Nirvana??

  16. #76
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    TPY
    Posts
    2,681

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by lypklypk View Post
    I've seen a monk carrying a 5d with a L lens attached, which he'll whip out for photos and hide behind his clothes after that... go wonder.
    Paparazi in disguise!

  17. #77
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    TPY
    Posts
    2,681

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by cowmera View Post
    We live in the 21st Century so even monks and nuns are globalised by now. Some monks are given hand phones by their devotees and the bills are paid for by their devotees. There is a monk in China who record music albums and donates his profits to charity. Is he dreaming of being a super star or he is merely using his talents to gain more money for charity? IIRC, the ren ci monk comes from a wealthy family so maybe his credit cards were applied when he wasn't a monk yet? Moreover he is the CEO of a hospital so i believe he is being paid right?

    Someone once asked me "are all monks vegetarians?" My reply was "yes" but i was told my answer is wrong! The correct answer is monks beg for alms. Whatever is being offered to them,they cannot reject and they have to thank you for the alms and then finish the food. At most after they finish the meat,they'll just vomit it all out. You know full well that they cannot consume meat yet you deliberately offer meat to them so it is not good karma for you.

    The late Pope wore prada shoes and was being driven around in BMW 7 series and Mercs S class. Go figure.

    I don't deny that the ren ci monk is bad in handling his finances so he has to face the music but i do not think it is wrong for a monk to carry many credit cards.
    A luxury means luxury be it given or paid for if a monk decides to have them means that they are still attached to the Meterial world and they are supposed to denouced the material world and if a monk suppose to head the temple and accepting all this materials while spreading teachings what will people devotees think of him/her for? Teaching one thing while doing another..........

    If one decided to renown the material world he should leave everything behind if he/she still hang on to them then...

    Buddha before he become Buddha was Prince Siddhartha Gautama!

    Those who UNDERSTAND KARMA will only do what is suppose to be done and will not go against the LAW of KARMA!
    Those who go against Karma sad to say even if they preach Karma but they still fail to understand what Law of Karma is really about!

  18. #78

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    A luxury means luxury be it given or paid for if a monk decides to have them means that they are still attached to the Meterial world and they are supposed to denouced the material world and if a monk suppose to head the temple and accepting all this materials while spreading teachings what will people devotees think of him/her for? Teaching one thing while doing another..........

    If one decided to renown the material world he should leave everything behind if he/she still hang on to them then...

    Buddha before he become Buddha was Prince Siddhartha Gautama!

    Those who UNDERSTAND KARMA will only do what is suppose to be done and will not go against the LAW of KARMA!
    Those who go against Karma sad to say even if they preach Karma but they still fail to understand what Law of Karma is really about!
    excellent point!

    of coz some ppl would still say it's prince buddha's right as a prince to drive in big luxury cars. hoomans...sigh...
    おれのflickrださ

  19. #79
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    248

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    A luxury means luxury be it given or paid for if a monk decides to have them means that they are still attached to the Meterial world and they are supposed to denouced the material world and if a monk suppose to head the temple and accepting all this materials while spreading teachings what will people devotees think of him/her for? Teaching one thing while doing another..........

    If one decided to renown the material world he should leave everything behind if he/she still hang on to them then...

    Buddha before he become Buddha was Prince Siddhartha Gautama!

    Those who UNDERSTAND KARMA will only do what is suppose to be done and will not go against the LAW of KARMA!
    Those who go against Karma sad to say even if they preach Karma but they still fail to understand what Law of Karma is really about!


    Hi, i agree with your points about a monk/nun needing to leave behind everything including materialistic pursuits. I do not know where Ming Yi gets the money to shower on his PA. If he used the money meant for charity for his own use,then he is indeed wrong. What i am trying to say is times are different now. You don't expect a monk to walk home after helping people so sometimes, a devotee might ferry him home in their car or give the monk an ez link card. Maybe some will offer a credit card so that it is convenient for the monk to buy some items needed by the temple. However, if a monk demands items for his own enjoyment from his devotees or swipe the card given to him to splurge others,then it is indeed very wrong.

    In Singapore, i have yet to see a monk or nun walk to their destination with their cloth bundle and a man tou. If they live in Tuas and they are needed to chant prayers in Changi, i doubt they will actually walk over. I believe their devotees will offer to transport them to their destination or they'll just take the public transport with the donated ez link card. When they accept a red packet, it is fine if they place it into the temple's coffers but if they pocket it, then it is definitely wrong! Therefore, holding a credit card is fine as long as it is not for their own enjoyment or for their staff to enjoy themselves.

    My neighbour invited a Thai nun to Singapore a couple of years back. He paid for her coach ticket to Singapore and he offered her a bed. However she insisted on sleeping on the floor as a bed is deem as luxury. Whatever food they offered to her, she accepted and finished everything instead of choosing what she wants to eat. They even bought her a pair of sandals from Scholls since the one she was wearing is falling apart. She accepted the slippers but not the bed so is the former considered a luxury item which she must decline too? Do we expect her to walk to Singapore with a pot of vegetarian tom yam in her cloth bundle?

    I am aware that religion is a sensitive topic so i hope that i did not ruffle any feathers with my views.
    Last edited by cowmera; 23rd April 2009 at 02:31 AM.
    I'm a cow with a camera

  20. #80
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    248

    Default Re: Monks allowed Credit Cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiruikage View Post
    excellent point!

    of coz some ppl would still say it's prince buddha's right as a prince to drive in big luxury cars. hoomans...sigh...
    During Prince Buddha's time, they use golden horse carriages or manpower to carry the huge sedan.
    I'm a cow with a camera

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •