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Thread: Review: All Camera Brands Being Reviewed!

  1. #21
    benissez
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    Quote Originally Posted by xdivider
    Well, u are the guy who said Fuji had the lion share of the manufacturing faults although the most recent hoohaas all over had been over the 10D and 300D's focussing issues. Note i said 'recent'. Dun u agree that the one who states a opnion should substantiate it with SUPPORTING FACTS? He hasn't lost the argument yet (if there is any) and frankly speaking i dun think he will lose it as i never seen a unbiased study on all the manufacturing faults of different makers. If u wanna use complaint reports, the comparison of the volume of complaints in the Nikon/Sony /Canon etc forums in dpreview is more than enough to condemn ur sweeping statements.

    First thing: You see alot of 10D & 300D complains on dpreview because Canon had a huge market share. If you don't understand what is 'Market Scale', I can't help you. Convert inccident reports into % according to market share then you'll get a better picture of things.

    #2: Autofocusing problem of Canon more serious of Electronic shock of 14,000v by a faulty rectifier in the Fuji flash system is more serious?

    #3: Using only dpreview to support your case is wek, furthermore, you used raw data without any consideration of market scale.

  2. #22
    benissez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerstorer
    I think you have the logic backwards.

    For any claim that you make, the onus is upon you to prove it to be true, not the other way round.

    Objectivity is seriously lacking.

    On a work like this (not paid), the onus is on those who disagree to prove there disagreement. If not, they have the right to remain silent or being viewed as sub i.

  3. #23
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    Once a while, it is good to liven up the forum. But then again, I think this is not the way it should go.

    Btw, Benissez, I seriously doubt that anyone would wanna post your so called facts. No offence, but you should see it coming long ago before you post it....

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by benissez
    First thing: You see alot of 10D & 300D complains on dpreview because Canon had a huge market share. If you don't understand what is 'Market Scale', I can't help you. Convert inccident reports into % according to market share then you'll get a better picture of things.

    #2: Autofocusing problem of Canon more serious of Electronic shock of 14,000v by a faulty rectifier in the Fuji flash system is more serious?

    #3: Using only dpreview to support your case is wek, furthermore, you used raw data without any consideration of market scale.
    Thank you, i knew u were going to use market share as a reason. Then please state the source of ur supposedly 'inassailable' proof. If u compare volume of complaints vs sales of a specific model, i.e. 10D, its another story. There are lies, more lies and statistics. Dun juz bring up statistics that support ur claims and ignore others that disprove it. U resemble someone in hwz's CAL forum who has been turning the place into a inferno.

  5. #25
    benissez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goondu
    Once a while, it is good to liven up the forum. But then again, I think this is not the way it should go.

    Btw, Benissez, I seriously doubt that anyone would wanna post your so called facts. No offence, but you should see it coming long ago before you post it....

    Of course I know it's coming... though I thought those who disagree would have more intelligent arguements.

    I knew because people only like to hear favourable replies on the cameras they bought so that it sort of makes them feel good and they appear to be wiser.

    Because my review includes non edited negative comments on some brands, obviously, those who owned the brand may feel their image threatened. Therefore you see all these junk and void replies appearing.

    But what good does it make if I say only the good part of all brands? Would making you hear all good about all brands make you wiser in buying a camera that suit your need and style?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by benissez
    On a work like this (not paid), the onus is on those who disagree to prove there disagreement. If not, they have the right to remain silent or being viewed as sub i.
    No, on any work, paid or unpaid, the onus is on the person asserting to support his claims. You can't go around and just say stuff and then say that because you aren't being paid, you don't have to justify it. No one is saying you're wrong. Whoever asked you for the source was just :asking you for your source. He was not accusing you of lying or being wrong.

    If I told you the moon was made of blue cheese, is the onus on me to prove it to you, or on you to prove me wrong? If you asked me for my evidence, you would be quite justified (and wise) to do so.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by benissez
    Ego? If you read from the beginning of the thread you'll know that insofar, I'm being objective. Open your eyes and see if you know who is objective.

    Quote? If I have to quote every sentence that I write in here, you'll will need to pay me. If not, and you wish to disagree, proof me wrong instead. This will make all the hoo ha more reasonable and objective- benefitting all.

    I'm telling people off because they reply for all the wrong reasons and just try to win somthing out of this. But know that if you wanna win amicably, show me you're right. I don't have to slog on every detail to self-justify.

    Remember, I started this thread. You disagree, disagree, like someone who is intelligent.

    Wat a joke...
    Who tried to be intelligent here? We're not trying to win here...Those who wanna win amicably, raise ur hand...

    Not only u have ego pbm, u r insecure as well...

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by henavs
    Wat a joke...
    Who tried to be intelligent here? We're not trying to win here...Those who wanna win amicably, raise ur hand...

    Not only u have ego pbm, u r insecure as well...
    Like he said, im not paid to prove him wrong either. Going back to paying jobs.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by benissez
    On a work like this (not paid), the onus is on those who disagree to prove there disagreement. If not, they have the right to remain silent or being viewed as sub i.
    Whether you are paid or not is immaterial. The fact is you have posted this on a public forum knowing it will be subject to scrutiny. Everyone has a right to comment and "not remain silent".

    Whether you want to defend your claims or not is up to you.

    Right now at this stage, without any further elaboration from you I'd honestly say that this is a dangerous piece of misinformation for newbies.

  10. #30

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    hmmmmm ..


  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kei
    hmmmmm ..

    Trying to work around the 10 char limit is it? Gotta make the "hmm" longer.

    :Later, <- This helps overcome it!

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by benissez
    REVIEW: ALL CAMERA BRANDS BEING REVIEWED!

    For the benefits of Newbie (s), I知 writing this general reviews for different brands of digital cameras in the event you should need to buy one. Note that as far as possible, I知 keeping my reviews unbiased and that all reviews comes from my personal experiences, professional bench tests by other reviewers and long slogging of nights playing with different cameras.

    I知 not doing film camera reviews yet as the subject is too diversified and much more complex than digital camera- a great irony by itself.

    So here it goes:


    CANON: Good quality cameras. Consistent in its image reproduction. With the DIGI technology breakthrough, images are now crisp and superbly low noise at even darkest shooting situations. But then again, the images produced by Canon cameras are not true to real images. Their cameras generate slightly more vibrant than real colours. Many will consider vibrant as a plus factor, but to me, image faithfulness is more important. Any expert camera user will let you know that you can always adjust the colour saturation levels on camera or off camera to reproduce the 鼎ANON effect. The lower ranges of Canon digital cameras are not very much up to standard- affordable doesn稚 have to compromise quality always, and I知 referring to image quality not specifications and functions. Other than that, Canon has a slightly lower resale value especially when you going to sell it during the boom of another of its latest model. Think of the price of 60D when 10D was launched.

    ==== End ====


    To readers:

    1. Please send me a thank you if you find this review useful- it brightens up my day.
    2. For brand loyalist who may lose their objectivity in the review, please don稚 waste time arguing.
    3. If you wanna post this review somewhere, seek my permission first; or you値l be giving me an opportunity to pounce on you legally of course.
    Just wanna query the points quoted above.

    Film camera more diversified than digital?! Hmm... that's something new to me. Can you please explain how that is so when there are more models of digital cameras to choose from then their film counter-parts? Just take the Canon Ixus for example, the film based model (which arrive much ealier) is only at it's third incarnation, while you have five digital (current models) one to choose from.



    Since I am a Canon user, I shall comment on what I know better.

    First of all, the DiGiC technology is NOT a new breakthrough, it has been around since the G1 (as far back as I know) was around. It just didn't have a name back then. Then the chip went through stages of refinement, and Canon decided to give it a name for Marketing sake.

    I'll have to agree with kst that we are surprise that someone thinks that Canon gives more vibrant color, and what is the 'Canon' effect anyway? Image quality is normally the first to suffer when you buy lower end models, cuz optics are the most expensive to make, while features are just a matter of swapping/detuning the chips. That's why pro-optics cost so much more.

    As for you point on the resale value, just wondering which digital camera brand has got really gooood resale value? And are you comparing it to any particular brand?



    If all of us have to send a thank you note to some that provided something useful, we would be spending half our time here writing that. It's a forum here my friend, and we are here to share

    Loyalist might loose their objectives, but often they are the people with better insights to the brand's dos and can't dos than the Jackses

    Laslty, All I wanna say about the disclaimers is, RELAX Lah!!!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by benissez
    Why not people like you stop wasting my time and proof me wrong instead?

    Arguements like yours I'd heard again and again.... asking people to quote, cut and paste information linking you to all sources. Then after you lost your accussation, you go into hiding... why not turn the table around and you go and find and link the sources that proof me wrong.


    *I think you must be a Fuji owner, though you may say otherwise... your reaction and reply sounds very emotional*
    So in other words, all your "information" is not real and you have no sources at all? Okay. If you want to prove a point to people after supplying your "almighty and objectively correct" opinion, you should provide backup proof to inform us, not make US do the finding.

  14. #34

    Default Give the man a break

    From a newbie perspective, the guy started off with a right spirit to be helpful in offering what he knows. Why not everybody else instead of attacking him offer constructive comments. That would help newbies have a better picture.

    Instead of feeling offended that the brand you own is reviewed with poorer standard, share with us your experience and better still, if you have experience in several brands, do a comparison and state otherwise. Why the bickering??? Does not help anyone. At least he tried to help, what about you guys?

    Forum is not a place to be personal. I really appreciated his effort, can I also have the same from everyone else? Too many brands, too many specs, too little money to try all, that's the newbies' problem.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by solafide
    From a newbie perspective, the guy started off with a right spirit to be helpful in offering what he knows. Why not everybody else instead of attacking him offer constructive comments. That would help newbies have a better picture.

    Instead of feeling offended that the brand you own is reviewed with poorer standard, share with us your experience and better still, if you have experience in several brands, do a comparison and state otherwise. Why the bickering??? Does not help anyone. At least he tried to help, what about you guys?

    Forum is not a place to be personal. I really appreciated his effort, can I also have the same from everyone else? Too many brands, too many specs, too little money to try all, that's the newbies' problem.
    Are you a gimmick account? None of us (I think) is offended by his opinions. We are however offended by his "all-knowing" attitude, and calling up so-called "information" on market shares which is obviously not easily gained information, and also refusing to provide any source.

    Being a researcher, I know it's important to provide backup when someone questions the use of your research. I have to provide cruicial information to answer his queries, and not ask him to prove why my research is not of use.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by solafide
    From a newbie perspective, the guy started off with a right spirit to be helpful in offering what he knows. Why not everybody else instead of attacking him offer constructive comments. That would help newbies have a better picture.
    He started well but could have reacted better by being appreciative of comments/feedback instead of showing a "know-all" attitude. Some of us are simply trying to correct some of the inaccurate facts posted.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by solafide
    From a newbie perspective, the guy started off with a right spirit to be helpful in offering what he knows. Why not everybody else instead of attacking him offer constructive comments. That would help newbies have a better picture.

    Instead of feeling offended that the brand you own is reviewed with poorer standard, share with us your experience and better still, if you have experience in several brands, do a comparison and state otherwise. Why the bickering??? Does not help anyone. At least he tried to help, what about you guys?

    Forum is not a place to be personal. I really appreciated his effort, can I also have the same from everyone else? Too many brands, too many specs, too little money to try all, that's the newbies' problem.
    this coming from a newbie (myself included) says it all...
    all here to learn from the oldies...and share from personal experiences.
    if you think that you hv info/knowledge to share..pls go ahead.
    kudos for sharing...(effort driven)
    for bashing (emotion driven)

    cheers!!

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by benissez
    Why not people like you stop wasting my time and proof me wrong instead?

    Arguements like yours I'd heard again and again.... asking people to quote, cut and paste information linking you to all sources. Then after you lost your accussation, you go into hiding... why not turn the table around and you go and find and link the sources that proof me wrong.

    *I think you must be a Fuji owner, though you may say otherwise... your reaction and reply sounds very emotional*
    No I am not running. I am still here

    You made a point, with nothing to prove it. You expect others to search the entire internet to prove that you are wrong? Or do you point out 1 source to show that you r right? Remember, all statistic made certain assumption. I just want to see what is that assumption and see if it is valid.

    You can search through the 300 or so post here, you'll see that I am not a fuji owner, and never owned one. A fuji user won't be asking the difference between S602Z & the pro version just yesterday. With the SM and XD card I simply discounted fuji. Are they lousy camera brand? No I don't think so. They just don't suit me, I need big memory cards and hence limited to CF. Did considered the 602Z at one point but picked the 7hi over it.

    Who is the one that is getting emotional here?

    What you are trying to accomplish is no mean feat. Comparing cameras brands require you to at least break it down into individual series or lines, or at least limit your scope to a certain type/area/speciality/price point etc. Without doing that the comparision is quite meaningless, or subjected to missile barrage

    You mention that that Canon don't have good resale value. Try A70 and IXUS 400. These 2 camera has some of the best resale value I know of. Apparently Canon didn't make them. Canon also trying to go into diving market.

    Nikon is good for those who frequently upgrade? Is that anything to upgrade to?
    They are so slow in releasing new models....... The old models are great but the newer models like 2100/3100 don't seems to be doing too well in the market against canon's A60/A70.

    Olympus is good for general use and no speciality? Which brand is the diver's choice of camera? If 10x zoom is not a speciality, what is it? Olympus has good high color saturation?

    Minolta do have DSLR, way earlier in fact. Whether you'll want to use them is another story altogether. And Dimage 7 series are not considered DSLR by most people.

    Fuji. Take a serious look at the photos from the S602Z users. They aren't bad at all. BTW, Fuji digicam tend to have good movie modes.

    Casio. What are they known for? Very small cameras that are wildly popular with those looking for those. Web application, where did you get that one from?

    Sony, you forgot that they tend have good movie capability too. But lacks a decent flash shoe until very recently. Sony has uw housing for a good number of their models.

    If you want to do a general review, these general things are what you can point out. Pointing out subjective issues are really inviting flame war.
    Last edited by frisky; 3rd November 2003 at 11:34 AM.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by solafide
    From a newbie perspective, the guy started off with a right spirit to be helpful in offering what he knows. Why not everybody else instead of attacking him offer constructive comments. That would help newbies have a better picture.

    Instead of feeling offended that the brand you own is reviewed with poorer standard, share with us your experience and better still, if you have experience in several brands, do a comparison and state otherwise. Why the bickering??? Does not help anyone. At least he tried to help, what about you guys?

    Forum is not a place to be personal. I really appreciated his effort, can I also have the same from everyone else? Too many brands, too many specs, too little money to try all, that's the newbies' problem.
    Appreciate ... but he shouldn't have started this at all (be it that he has money to try all or not ... since he already know such things ("WAR") would happened !

    BTW, benissez, why remove your "Scrap Book"?? ... let us see your pics.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by solafide
    From a newbie perspective, the guy started off with a right spirit to be helpful in offering what he knows. Why not everybody else instead of attacking him offer constructive comments. That would help newbies have a better picture.

    Instead of feeling offended that the brand you own is reviewed with poorer standard, share with us your experience and better still, if you have experience in several brands, do a comparison and state otherwise. Why the bickering??? Does not help anyone. At least he tried to help, what about you guys?

    Forum is not a place to be personal. I really appreciated his effort, can I also have the same from everyone else? Too many brands, too many specs, too little money to try all, that's the newbies' problem.
    hmm first post and already defending the original poster............

    David Teo
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