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Thread: parliament passes new bill

  1. #21
    vince123123
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    The current Public Order Bill has nothing to do with signs, or with enforcement by private buildings or the like.

    Quote Originally Posted by creampuff View Post
    So let's pose this dilemma of shooting at a public location...
    You like shooting building exteriors and want to shoot the exterior of Ren Ci Hospital or the National Neuroscience Institute at Irrawaddy Road which also happens to be opposite the New Phoenix Park where there are explicit signs of not permitting any photography or video. So how can or not?

  2. #22
    Senior Member creampuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    does the signs specify which areas it is referring to?

    if yes then just don't shoot it and if/when the police ask you to stop and show then your photos, then show them lor
    I'm not sure it is as clear cut as that. Knowing it is a restricted area, you may not even be permitted to stop, take out your camera and shoot the buildings opposite. Under the new bill it removes any ambiguity, you'll be asked to "move-on" or risk being detained or arrested. I think it is a real issue in our built-up environment.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    Quote Originally Posted by creampuff View Post
    I'm not sure it is as clear cut as that. Knowing it is a restricted area, you may not even be permitted to stop, take out your camera and shoot the buildings opposite. Under the new bill it removes any ambiguity, you'll be asked to "move-on" or risk being detained or arrested. I think it is a real issue in our built-up environment.
    so if the police ask you to move on and you insist that you have the right
    they also have the right to take you in for investigation.

    so you decide if that image is worth it or not

  4. #24
    Senior Member creampuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    Who volunteer to be test guinea pig and carry a camera openly while walking along Irrawaddy Road roadside outside New Phoenix Park?

  5. #25
    vince123123
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    Has that area been designated or issued with a move on order yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by creampuff View Post
    Who volunteer to be test guinea pig and carry a camera openly while walking along Irrawaddy Road roadside outside New Phoenix Park?
    I think its very premature and I think a better reading up on the new laws is required before more comments fly from the hips :P

    I mean, talk about signs and all? Those have nothing to do with the Public Order Bill.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Has that area been designated or issued with a move on order yet?



    I think its very premature and I think a better reading up on the new laws is required before more comments fly from the hips :P

    I mean, talk about signs and all? Those have nothing to do with the Public Order Bill.
    so this technically will not affect outdo photography then?
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  7. #27
    vince123123
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    Based on what is reported (and I caution that I have not read the Bill itself) I doubt it will affect photographers.

    Of course the "on paper" aim is presumably that security forces' safety will be compromised if someone films them.

    In my view, the unspoken aim is to catch activists trying to film the police while the police are filming them. In the past, when activists do something, the police will stand one side and film them. Taking a leaf from the same book, the activists have filmed the police filming them, as well as the scene, and all sorts of Internet videos have then emerged about the way the police conducted themselves.

    With the new law, only the police can film, and hence, only the police will have a record of the event and they can then control what gets out, and what does not.

    Finally, I have not read the Bill, but I think the clause is directed towards film, ie moving pictures.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    so this technically will not affect outdo photography then?

  8. #28
    Senior Member creampuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Has that area been designated or issued with a move on order yet?

    I think its very premature and I think a better reading up on the new laws is required before more comments fly from the hips :P

    I mean, talk about signs and all? Those have nothing to do with the Public Order Bill.
    If you don't already know, the police already have wide ranging powers to stop and detain anyone for questioning. The new bill closes any loopholes and increases the range and scope of the powers of the police in the area of public order, which can be very broadly applied.
    While one or two persons might not constitute a group but hypothetically speaking a scenario of a group of photographers walking past a restricted area certainly would draw attention. Want to argue with the police? Preventing a public servant from carrying out his duty is a charge that one could face.

  9. #29
    vince123123
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    I'm not sure if that is relevant to your original point about no photography signs, but since you wish to delve into a new topic and since you say you know something that I don't, would you care to elaborate and quote some of these "powers" and laws which you refer to?

    Quote Originally Posted by creampuff View Post
    If you don't already know, the police already have wide ranging powers to stop and detain anyone for questioning. The new bill closes any loopholes and increases the range and scope of the powers of the police in the area of public order, which can be very broadly applied.
    While one or two persons might not constitute a group but hypothetically speaking a scenario of a group of photographers walking past a restricted area certainly would draw attention. Want to argue with the police? Preventing a public servant from carrying out his duty is a charge that one could face.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I'm not sure if that is relevant to your original point about no photography signs, but since you wish to delve into a new topic and since you say you know something that I don't, would you care to elaborate and quote some of these "powers" and laws which you refer to?
    try to keep the discussion clean and factual too ; this is for everyone. i don't want the thread getting locked b4 we can at least highlight the impact of this on the community.
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  11. #31
    vince123123
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    It may help if someone goes and find a copy of the latest version of the bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    try to keep the discussion clean and factual too ; this is for everyone. i don't want the thread getting locked b4 we can at least highlight the impact of this on the community.

  12. #32
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    there has been recent cases where people shot video & photos of officers on duty doing illegal parking, in this in bill, is that an chargable offence? or it is only when it is post in public forum or when officers demand that the footage be deleted but the shooter refuses?

    what is the implications?
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  13. #33
    vince123123
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    According to the Minister, no, that does not fall under. According to the Bill as currently worded, yes it is possible it can fall under; hence Sylvia Lim's article which I linked above.

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    there has been recent cases where people shot video & photos of officers on duty doing illegal parking, in this in bill, is that an chargable offence? or it is only when it is post in public forum or when officers demand that the footage be deleted but the shooter refuses?

    what is the implications?

  14. #34
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    According to the Minister, no, that does not fall under. According to the Bill as currently worded, yes it is possible it can fall under; hence Sylvia Lim's article which I linked above.
    alamak, i dont understand what u r saying, 1st u say minister say no, than u say yes according to the bill.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  15. #35
    vince123123
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    The Bill is a written document and what is enshrined in law. What the minister says in Parliament is only clarification on how the bill should be interpreted, but may or may not be considered by the courts.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    For example, the bill says:

    "Leaving of tissue paper around is littering"

    In Parliament, an MP pops up and says "Dear Minister, we have this popular culture here where people use tissue packets to rserve seats leh, then how, all these now cannot?"

    Minister then replies "Aiya, you already say what, here in Singapore, we won't prosecute people for chopping seats with tissue paper. We only catch those who sneeze then throw the tissue paper around".

    MP then says "then shouldn't we amend the bill to correctly catch those we want to catch?"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    However, whatever the Minister says does not really change what is written into Law. It is written into the Hansard, which is a whole lot less accessible than the law. Most of you here don't even know what the Hansard is, and many don't even know about the Statutes.agc website.

    To me, its a nice convenient way of hiding something

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    alamak, i dont understand what u r saying, 1st u say minister say no, than u say yes according to the bill.

  16. #36
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    so that mean, ultimately, if we shoot officiers breaking the law themselves and post in in the forum for discussion, they reserve the right to charge us?
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  17. #37
    vince123123
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    I have no idea, wait until the Act is finalised because apparently the Minister says some definitions will need to be re-jigged.

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    so that mean, ultimately, if we shoot officiers breaking the law themselves and post in in the forum for discussion, they reserve the right to charge us?

  18. #38

    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    there has been recent cases where people shot video & photos of officers on duty doing illegal parking, in this in bill, is that an chargable offence? or it is only when it is post in public forum or when officers demand that the footage be deleted but the shooter refuses?

    what is the implications?
    depending on the situation....officer at the scene can request for pictures and videos to be deleted...

    but..thats just according to me....
    Nikon D300s, 50mm, 18-105mm, Sigma 30mm F1.4, Sigma 50-150mm F2.8, Samyang 8mm F3.5

  19. #39
    Senior Member darrrrrrrrrr's Avatar
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Wibblo View Post
    depending on the situation....officer at the scene can request for pictures and videos to be deleted...

    but..thats just according to me....
    snap a picture of the police officer who demanded you to delete yr photos, then comply with the request and delete all photos on the card. go home just use recovery software to get back all the photos.

  20. #40
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: parliament passes new bill

    Quote Originally Posted by darrrrrrrrrr View Post
    snap a picture of the police officer who demanded you to delete yr photos, then comply with the request and delete all photos on the card. go home just use recovery software to get back all the photos.
    the main issue is not that, but the possibility to not having the rights to stomp.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

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