Recommend a RF cam!

[hukang]

I am a DSLR user, want to do some discreet street photography, so looking for an inexpensive RF camera+lens. These are the things I would need from my (film) RF system:

1. Decent, inexpensive lenses (I would need a 28mm f1.4 or 30mm and a 50mm)
2. Easy film loading
3. Smaller in size than say a Canon 1000d+kit lens (if bigger, I will just go and buy myself a Canon 1000d, or a E-420. Looking to the RF system mainly for dscreet/ candid street shooting, will be using DSLR for everything else)

At this point, I dont know whether AF is important or not. I would like a AF rangefinder, but I understand the choices will be limited in that case.

Please share your valuable experience

[Edwin Francis]

How about a Voigtlander Bessa R4A (or R4M)?

http://www.chiifcameras.com/site2/in...d=35&Itemid=37

I guess it depends on what you mean by inexpensive. I got a used R4A with a 21/4 and a 40/1.4 for abt $1300 over a year ago. Think a new set would have been ard $1.8K. I checked the specs, and although the body is slightly wider than a 1000D, it is shorter (no prism), not as deep (no mirror box), and lighter. The lenses are tiny.
It's an M-mount camera, so you can use Leica lenses too, though the Voigtlander lenses are pretty good.
The R4A is aperture-priority AE or manual, R4M is pure manual. No AF, but I scalefocus with the 21mm when I'm being discreet. And I don't see a 28/1.4 in the range, though there's a 35/1.4.
Film loading is just like conventional 35mm SLRs (fit to take-up spool, close back, wind and shoot), no bottom-loading Leica peculiarities. Works with 2 LR44 batteries -- cheap, long-lasting and easy to find.
Build quality is good, finder is bright. I now carry this kit around more than my Canon 30D -- it is a lot lighter and smaller!

[hukang]

Originally Posted by Edwin Francis How about a Voigtlander Bessa R4A (or R4M)? http://www.chiifcameras.com/site2/in...d=35&Itemid=37 I guess it depends on what you mean by inexpensive. I got a used R4A with a 21/4 and a 40/1.4 for abt $1300 over a year ago. Think a new set would have been ard $1.8K. I checked the specs, and although the body is slightly wider than a 1000D, it is shorter (no prism), not as deep (no mirror box), and lighter. The lenses are tiny. It's an M-mount camera, so you can use Leica lenses too, though the Voigtlander lenses are pretty good. The R4A is aperture-priority AE or manual, R4M is pure manual. No AF, but I scalefocus with the 21mm when I'm being discreet. And I don't see a 28/1.4 in the range, though there's a 35/1.4. Film loading is just like conventional 35mm SLRs (fit to take-up spool, close back, wind and shoot), no bottom-loading Leica peculiarities. Works with 2 LR44 batteries -- cheap, long-lasting and easy to find. Build quality is good, finder is bright. I now carry this kit around more than my Canon 30D -- it is a lot lighter and smaller!

Thanks for the ideas!

What about the Bessa R2, R3 etc which are listed in the Chiif website? They seem cheaper.

[xylestesins]

R4a is the rangefinder for wide-angle shooting,
while the R3a and R2a are cameras which cater to different focal lengths / viewfinders.

They are all of the same build and quality, only difference is the viewfinder.

Depends which focal lengths you like shooting on!
Personally, i own an R2a and i love it. I like the 50mm and 35mm focal lengths.
Also own a pentax dslr, pentacon 6 and soon a hasselblad, but the rangefinder is the one that follows with me day and night when i am not expecting to use mediumformat or digital specifically. If you enjoy wandering the streets and exploring around from day to night without worry of handhold issues (up to 1/2 second), you will have no regrets. In fact, expect to be losing interest in your dslr if what i mention is the case

[hukang]

Originally Posted by Edwin Francis How about a Voigtlander Bessa R4A (or R4M)? http://www.chiifcameras.com/site2/in...d=35&Itemid=37 I guess it depends on what you mean by inexpensive. I got a used R4A with a 21/4 and a 40/1.4 for abt $1300 over a year ago. Think a new set would have been ard $1.8K. I checked the specs, and although the body is slightly wider than a 1000D, it is shorter (no prism), not as deep (no mirror box), and lighter. The lenses are tiny. It's an M-mount camera, so you can use Leica lenses too, though the Voigtlander lenses are pretty good. The R4A is aperture-priority AE or manual, R4M is pure manual. No AF, but I scalefocus with the 21mm when I'm being discreet. And I don't see a 28/1.4 in the range, though there's a 35/1.4. Film loading is just like conventional 35mm SLRs (fit to take-up spool, close back, wind and shoot), no bottom-loading Leica peculiarities. Works with 2 LR44 batteries -- cheap, long-lasting and easy to find. Build quality is good, finder is bright. I now carry this kit around more than my Canon 30D -- it is a lot lighter and smaller!

Originally Posted by xylestesins R4a is the rangefinder for wide-angle shooting, while the R3a and R2a are cameras which cater to different focal lengths / viewfinders. They are all of the same build and quality, only difference is the viewfinder. Depends which focal lengths you like shooting on! Personally, i own an R2a and i love it. I like the 50mm and 35mm focal lengths. Also own a pentax dslr, pentacon 6 and soon a hasselblad, but the rangefinder is the one that follows with me day and night when i am not expecting to use mediumformat or digital specifically. If you enjoy wandering the streets and exploring around from day to night without worry of handhold issues (up to 1/2 second), you will have no regrets. In fact, expect to be losing interest in your dslr if what i mention is the case

Thanks.

My problem is I want a camera and lens when I am going about my day to day activites. If I am going specifically to take photos, I have a DSLR, lenses, flash etc. But many times, its just not possible to carry a camera bag. So I am thinking I can fit a RF cam and lens into my trouser pockets? If I have to carry a bag for these too, then I wont be interested. I found compacts dont give me enough control over depth of field aswell ascreative control etc, although I suspect there may be new compacts that I dont know about which will be more advances and may be good enough for street shooting.

[xylestesins]

A minolta CL or CLE may fit your bill if you wish to put it into your pocket
Though i still think it's quite a hard thing to do, considering a film canister itself is thick as a wallet and the cam body + lens would come into the picture too.

Carry a tiny messenger bag?
That's what i do. Fits one R2a snugly, with space for mp3, and a roll or two of film.
Handphone and wallet goes into pants pockets.

[hukang]

Originally Posted by xylestesins A minolta CL or CLE may fit your bill if you wish to put it into your pocket Though i still think it's quite a hard thing to do, considering a film canister itself is thick as a wallet and the cam body + lens would come into the picture too. Carry a tiny messenger bag? That's what i do. Fits one R2a snugly, with space for mp3, and a roll or two of film. Handphone and wallet goes into pants pockets.

Maybe I should look again at the new compacts and the Oly E-420+pancake lens again, probably cost me the same as a film RF setup.

[Rangefinder_fan]

If you really are looking for a camera that'll take up next to zero space, you may want to consider a scale focus instead. Options include the rollei 35 family, or the minox. Both are super compact, and have good glass. In the case of the rollei 35 S and SE, lens is exceptional. For RFs, I can't think of a super compact one, side from the CL or CLE already mentioned. Perhaps a fixed lens like an olympus 35 rd?

[Yoricko]

If you really want some tiny compact rangefinder, just go for a Panasonic LX3 or Leica D-Lux 4 if you have the spare cash (they're compact cameras).
Silent shutter, no need to buy film, super tiny.

[hukang]

Originally Posted by xylestesins A minolta CL or CLE may fit your bill if you wish to put it into your pocket Though i still think it's quite a hard thing to do, considering a film canister itself is thick as a wallet and the cam body + lens would come into the picture too. Carry a tiny messenger bag? That's what i do. Fits one R2a snugly, with space for mp3, and a roll or two of film. Handphone and wallet goes into pants pockets.

This Minolta CL/E series seems to be very interesting. Are these cameras hard to find? around how much would they go for?

[Edwin Francis]

Originally Posted by Rangefinder_fan If you really are looking for a camera that'll take up next to zero space, you may want to consider a scale focus instead. Options include the rollei 35 family, or the minox. Both are super compact, and have good glass. In the case of the rollei 35 S and SE, lens is exceptional. For RFs, I can't think of a super compact one, side from the CL or CLE already mentioned. Perhaps a fixed lens like an olympus 35 rd?

There's the Olympus XA of course -- it is a proper rangefinder with Aperture priority AE, though exposure compensation is fiddly (using the ASA dial). Some might not like it, but the design (Olympus' Maitani) was ingenious and the optics good. But it's a fixed lens design. It is really pocketable though.
But to be frank, I don't think an Oly E420 w/pancake lens, or a Minolta CLE with lens is going to be comfortable in your pocket (even with collapsible Leica lenses). Even if have very roomy pockets (I'm thinking MC Hammer), 500-600grams of camera in your trouser pocket is going to feel awkward, and may make some women think you're really happy to see them
If you don't want to sling them ard yr neck, or use a cam bag, an alternative I use for small cams is a waist pouch -- not very cool-looking, but convenient.
For real pocketability, you will probably want to go with Yoricko's suggestions.

[benny]

I think rangefinder with interchangable lenses may not be what you are looking for. To fit a camera and 3 lenses in your trousers pocket, you might have to be wearing cargo pants.

Perhaps you can also consider the defuncted Contax T2/T3 or the Rollei 35. Both are cult cameras with tested performance. The Contax has AF.

Cheers,

[Rangefinder_fan]

They turn up now and then. Price seems to be between $400-600 for the body, depending on the condition. Think there was one being sold in the buy/sell section.
Note that as these are used, and pretty old, you'll need to anticipate that the meter will conk out eventually, and then you'll be left with a meter-less camera. Which isnt that big of a deal if you shoot bw or negs.
I got my CLE in HK. Not the cheapest, but at a condition and price that I was happy with.
Nice size. Not the smallest, but good enough for me.

cheers

rf

Originally Posted by hukang This Minolta CL/E series seems to be very interesting. Are these cameras hard to find? around how much would they go for?

[cy_j]

Inexpensive only means one thing in RF= FSU rangefinders . (Get a Kiev or a Zorki 3M or a FED2).

[merelyok]

Yashica GSN 35. Cheap, silent, plus wonderful optics.

[Cactus jACK]

Bessa R3a w/ 40mm nokton f/1.4

[DoveVadar]

Hey, if you really low on budget, zorki 4 is great. fantastic jupiter 8 lens. A camera you use and fix yourself when things happen. I wouldnt do it with a leica though... very fun.

These were shot using a zorki 4:

[lrrp77]

there are currently 2 CLEs on sale in buy/sell section