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Thread: Subaru WRX....

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    Default Subaru WRX....

    Hey Guys,

    Didn't know what to put this under, so I said what the hell :P. This is my first photoshoot for my portfolio. My first real photo shoot, really. I'm looking at doing a lot of automotive shoots for people who want some nice pics of their cars, and it would help me a lot if you guys could give me your comments, maybe some hints on filters too. For this shoot, I mainly used my 28mm wide angle lens, half the time with a gradual tobacco filter. Let me know what you think and what I could do to improve. Thanks.

    Bronson's Subaru WRX

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    some of your shots are a little dark. If the idea is to shoot the car then perhaps it should be more visible? They look a little too dark.

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    yeah i agree, some of them are dark, but thats what happens when you take pics at twilight with no other lighting source hehe. I'd love some soft lights on the front to give a better effect, but i had to deal with what i was given, and tried to make the best of the situation at hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangles112
    yeah i agree, some of them are dark, but thats what happens when you take pics at twilight with no other lighting source hehe. I'd love some soft lights on the front to give a better effect, but i had to deal with what i was given, and tried to make the best of the situation at hand.
    Try using a flash to fill the area. Think that might help. Might want to usea diffuser to soften the flash.....

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    dont like using flash, its a totally different light than what I was shooting in. The gold light of the sunset, against a bright white flash....plus i hate the shap shadows that a flash gives, and i dont have a diffuser :P. I just spend over 1000 dollars on lenses...so I'm broke. I like natural light, natural looks, and I thought the setting sun would complement the smooth lines of the car, and the orange and reds would contrast with the blue of the car quite well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangles112
    dont like using flash, its a totally different light than what I was shooting in. The gold light of the sunset, against a bright white flash....plus i hate the shap shadows that a flash gives, and i dont have a diffuser :P. I just spend over 1000 dollars on lenses...so I'm broke. I like natural light, natural looks, and I thought the setting sun would complement the smooth lines of the car, and the orange and reds would contrast with the blue of the car quite well.
    Use a diffuser, it will help soften the harshness of the flash. I know what you mean but sometimes guess we have no choice...

    You shoot digital rite? Do a bit of post processing after that?

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    Yeah, I used my 10D, and no processing after that. Those are the pictures as they were taken. No auto exposure, nothing. If I can't take a good shot without photoshop, then I don't see the need hehe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangles112
    Hey Guys,

    Didn't know what to put this under, so I said what the hell :P. This is my first photoshoot for my portfolio. My first real photo shoot, really. I'm looking at doing a lot of automotive shoots for people who want some nice pics of their cars, and it would help me a lot if you guys could give me your comments, maybe some hints on filters too. For this shoot, I mainly used my 28mm wide angle lens, half the time with a gradual tobacco filter. Let me know what you think and what I could do to improve. Thanks.

    Bronson's Subaru WRX
    Frankly those shots are no where near saleable and none of my clients for example would pay more than a couple of bucks each for shots of this calibre.

    To properly light the car at sunset requires the use of one of the following:

    2-4 Large lamps in the vein of either "blondes" or Redheads, along with barndoors and or diffusers. A 6-10kw genset and dimmers will also be needed.

    OR

    A large (800WS per head minimum) 3-4 head studio flash system with 1/64 to full power control settings, or better yet continious power control. Also required are in field power supply, as well as brollies, soft boxes, snoots and so on.

    OR

    3-6 35mm size flash units mounted on tripods or light stands that will go to ground level, plus connection leads.

    General:

    Images are exessively dark in front with little detail visible in the shadow regions. The standard professional fix for this is to use balanced flash or constant lighting fill to balance the light ratio front to back. This requires the use of manual lighting control, a flash meter and light meter and a fair amount of experience in controlling light sources, in particular spill. It is however not beyond the realm of capability for a serious amateur to do with simple kit.

    Shots as taken:

    Artistic impression: 5/10 (they aren't anything special)
    Technical: 2/10 .. LOTS of room for improvement.
    Overall score: 3.5/10.

    Conclusion:
    The basic ideas are there, but there's a LOT of room for improvement. Keep on working at refining the artistic side and also improving the lighting and you'll get there eventually.
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

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    Ian's comments are all on the mark, plus, learn to edit. Seeing 6 similar so-so to bad photos in a row doesn't do much for anyone.

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    Interesting "number" plate

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    Ian, thanks the critisism, but I didn't really expect to be chastised on something I tried really hard for. I've spent 8 grand of my own money on equipment, and money aint easy to come by when you work 12 hours a day for not a lot of pay. I have looked into lighting setups and the like, and can get 3x800w red heads for 75 dollars per day from a place in brisbane. Yes, I know I'm not a professional, and I've only owned a camera for about 3 months, but at least I'm giving it a go. In the past 6 months, I've dedicated my time and energy into researching everything I can about photography, and have a degree in screen production...and I'm sorry I'm not up to par with anything you have done. I'm simply trying to do something that I love, and your first comments border on insult. My friend seems happy with his shots...and maybe I should try more of a daytime shoot with a reflector shield or something of that nature? I'm also trying to gain competencies at colleges for photography, but that will also set me back another $16,000. So please, don't try and chastise an newbie for trying something he's never done before. But thank you for your other comments, they were very useful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangles112
    Ian, thanks the critisism, but I didn't really expect to be chastised on something I tried really hard for. I've spent 8 grand of my own money on equipment, and money aint easy to come by when you work <snipped>
    Chastised? Jeezus if you think my comments are a chastisement then you are sadly wrong. You wanted comments (see your original post) and you got them in plain straight English minus all the frills and ego smoothing.
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

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    Im just wanted to say that it is better for a harsh comment with constructive contents than to have a pleasing comment like "nice, good" that have not much hint to what is to improve.

    In this case, ian have given you very detailed recommendation in a very frank, uncovered and honest way which is the best form to get direct information. I believe that Ian understand the part that you are trying your best in shooting the car, that is why he is willing to spend the time to type the many suggestions so that you can improve further.

    In my opinion, they are not at all harsh. If you have a chance to experience some real critics surrounding you during critic session, it will be very much worse....
    Last edited by green_leaf; 2nd November 2003 at 03:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangles112
    Ian, thanks the critisism, but I didn't really expect to be chastised on something I tried really hard for. I've spent 8 grand of my own money on equipment, and money aint easy to come by when you work 12 hours a day for not a lot of pay. I have looked into lighting setups and the like, and can get 3x800w red heads for 75 dollars per day from a place in brisbane. Yes, I know I'm not a professional, and I've only owned a camera for about 3 months, but at least I'm giving it a go. In the past 6 months, I've dedicated my time and energy into researching everything I can about photography, and have a degree in screen production...and I'm sorry I'm not up to par with anything you have done. I'm simply trying to do something that I love, and your first comments border on insult. My friend seems happy with his shots...and maybe I should try more of a daytime shoot with a reflector shield or something of that nature? I'm also trying to gain competencies at colleges for photography, but that will also set me back another $16,000. So please, don't try and chastise an newbie for trying something he's never done before. But thank you for your other comments, they were very useful.
    Gosh, Tangles, you were being extremely harsh on Ian yourself. If you read your first post, you did ask for opinions on how to improve. He's given you so what did you actually want? And you seem to shoot down others who suggest using flash.

    If you wish not to spend much on other equipment and yet want to hear praises like "Well done" or "Keep it up" then I think it's a conflict. Bcos frankly, most of the shots are indeed not what one would even bother to take a 2nd look as anything near eye-catching, let alone professional.

    Of course, if that's all the photography standard that makes your friend happy, who cares how you can improve? Even a blurred shot can satisfy some people. Then again, you shouldn't have posted your pictures and asked for comments if that is the case isn't it? Maybe you should have asked, how can you improve with just a 10D, wide angle lens and no flash. I think the answer is "very little, if anything's worth doing at all".

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    Hi tangles112, perhaps you might want to see some examples of quality work without spending 8K on equipment:
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=39497

    The point is, your shots were really just plain, angles were all pretty safe and conventional, those that were slanted merely looked slanted and did not have a sense of dynamic impact. I could see that much of the advise was well-intended and not meant as a slur, perhaps you might want to ease up a little and ignore whatever personal hardship or effort you endured to generate the shot. Afterall, its the result that matters to a prospective client, not the arduous journey u took to get there.
    Last edited by Zerstorer; 2nd November 2003 at 03:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangles112
    dont like using flash, its a totally different light than what I was shooting in. The gold light of the sunset, against a bright white flash....plus i hate the shap shadows that a flash gives, and i dont have a diffuser :P. I just spend over 1000 dollars on lenses...so I'm broke. I like natural light, natural looks, and I thought the setting sun would complement the smooth lines of the car, and the orange and reds would contrast with the blue of the car quite well.
    In my opinion, a flash is what you need to improve your shots. You've got a good concept for the setting, however you've forgotten something. In a twilight setting, the blue of the car wun show up as blue because it's under a red/orangy light. It's more like purple. Plus your tobacco filter, it's now brownish.
    If you use a flash properly, you wun see much of the shadows and the white light will brighten up your car a bit.

    You seem to have a purist attitude towards photography. No flash, no photoshop and the likes. Honestly speaking, if you are thinking of commercially viable pictures, you got to learn how to use these tools. 90% of all such pictures are manipulated in some way or another. The remaining 10% are captured with lotsa skill, luck and patience. If you are a beginner like what you say you are, I think you are going to be a lot better off using tools to achieve saleable pictures.

    And also, it's pointless telling us that you have spent 8k on your equipment. The point is, are your pictures worth 8k? Honestly, I'm sure there are people here who can take similar shots with setup costing much less than that. You haven't even come close to the true limits of your setup yet.
    Last edited by Prismatic; 2nd November 2003 at 03:54 PM.

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    My apollogies. I was just a little broken that my time and effort were not as impressive as the customer thought they were. Yes I was harsh, But I don't believe that someone should imply my shots were tacky and cheap. I'm a beginner, and it's not really something that would give me inspiration to try harder. I do want to make a career of photography, and I'm sorry if I flew off the handle. This was my first try, and I was bound to make mistakes. Thanks for all those who game me advice...when I can afford to rent some lights (hopefully next week), I will take some photo's of my fathers car and see how dramatically it affects my pictures. But for now, it's mainly framing and simple stuff. The conplex come very soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangles112
    My apollogies. I was just a little broken that my time and effort were not as impressive as the customer thought they were. Yes I was harsh, But I don't believe that someone should imply my shots were tacky and cheap. I'm a beginner, and it's not really something that would give me inspiration to try harder. I do want to make a career of photography, and I'm sorry if I flew off the handle. This was my first try, and I was bound to make mistakes. Thanks for all those who game me advice...when I can afford to rent some lights (hopefully next week), I will take some photo's of my fathers car and see how dramatically it affects my pictures. But for now, it's mainly framing and simple stuff. The conplex come very soon.
    Apology accepted on my part. If I sounded harsh it's not intentional, however it's a fact of life if/when you turn professional that you'll cop a lot worse than the posts here, both from editors and clients. Professional photography is not a nice relaxing job, it's a long hard workday in a dog eat dog environment where there are queues of backstabbing folks just waiting for you to make a mistake so they can really have a go at you. As I'm fond of saying, professional photogaphy calls many but very few of us manage to eek a living out of it and fewer manage to make a good living at it. This isn't meant to dissuade you from having a shot at your dreams but it's the reality of life as a working pro in 2003. I frequently (5 days a week at least) put in 18hr work days and yes I do get well paid but I've worked at it for 25+ years and believe me I've seen some mighty lean times over that period.

    It's worth reading my original conclusion which is where you'll find the encouragement ... as I wrote
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian
    Conclusion:
    The basic ideas are there, but there's a LOT of room for improvement. Keep on working at refining the artistic side and also improving the lighting and you'll get there eventually.
    In photography EVERY thing takes time, patience and lots of practice
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

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    Yeah, I have been in environments like that before. It's not fun. I'm not going out to make a fortune, I just want to make use of my education and do something I really enjoy. Photographing cars has always been the ultimate passion for me...and as we speak...im trying to source some used red heads to purchase if they aren't too expensive. Any ideas on how much they would set me back? Any idea who might stock them or where I can order them from?

    My real mission is just to be the person who takes the lasting picture of a person's car, so they can look back on the picture in years to come, and be proud of that car. So once again, sorry for going nuts.

    I'm looking at doing another tertiary course in photography, but unfortunately I have missed the cut off for applications for 6 months . So I guess I'm on my own until then. I have a few frien'ds weddings coming up as well, so I might see if I can get some practice there as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangles112
    Any ideas on how much they would set me back? Any idea who might stock them or where I can order them from?
    New they are quite expensive, around 1500-2000 bucks each by the time you add barndoors, diffusers etc. Your best bet is to hit the yellow pages and call up some lighting hire joints (look for PA hire etc as well) or TV/film hire companies. Just remember they use a lot of power and you'll need a large genset to power them as well as light stands (very heavy duty poles), power leads and dimmers etc as well (2kw dimmers).

    Other valid choices are HMI lighting (smaller, expensive and very nice), as well as flash.

    I use mostly HMI/Flash on static car shots by the way.
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

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