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Thread: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    Maybe the next qn u can ask is ...

    "Do we really know who are CS admins and mods....?"
    sigh.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    Maybe the next qn u can ask is ...

    "Do we really know who are CS admins and mods....?"
    this topic deserves its very own thread!!



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    till den, back to topic.
    have u seen the "light" yet?

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    i am not a press photographer, but do press photographers wonder about the island aimlessly to "chance upon" a news worthy incident to write an article without any research? is that the normal workflow?

    monkey business or not who's now seen as a monkey? for every action there's a reaction, from the article published in ST, on what basis did u conclude there was no negative impact on involved members?
    that's what stomp is for.
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    Maybe the next qn u can ask is ...

    "Do we really know who are CS admins and mods....?"
    Maybe the next question after this one you can ask is....

    "Do we really know who are you and me and everybody here.....?"


  5. #65

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Maybe the next question after this one you can ask is....

    "Do we really know who are you and me and everybody here.....?"

    Does it matter that we know you me and everyone here? Do we have any vested interested among you me and everyone? No.

    However, there are vested interested among organizers, models and photographers. In that relationship, money is involved, and should we know the people to whom our money is being sent and spent?
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  6. #66

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...


  7. #67
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    that's what stomp is for.
    maybe there are Stompers here (posting inane posts)?
    have u seen the "light" yet?

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    pie say pie say.
    http://digital.asiaone.com/Digital/N...10-127574.html
    if you're still interested.
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  9. #69
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    alamak, i thought it is dp's nude photo!!
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Does it matter that we know you me and everyone here? Do we have any vested interested among you me and everyone? No.

    However, there are vested interested among organizers, models and photographers. In that relationship, money is involved, and should we know the people to whom our money is being sent and spent?
    I guess the beauty of an online forum is that everyone maintains a sense of anonymity.
    I personally feel that I don't need to know who our Photoshoot Organizers are, unless I want to befriend them. What I would like is for them to adhere to some 'code of conduct' about the way they organise paid photoshoots. This SHOULD prevent nasty surprises (no-shows, uninvited 'guests', etc)
    Exploring! :)

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    maybe there are Stompers here (posting inane posts)?
    Stompers are everywhere now. Sitting next to you in the train could be one.

    Be very afraid.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    I guess the beauty of an online forum is that everyone maintains a sense of anonymity.
    I personally feel that I don't need to know who our Photoshoot Organizers are, unless I want to befriend them. What I would like is for them to adhere to some 'code of conduct' about the way they organise paid photoshoots. This SHOULD prevent nasty surprises (no-shows, uninvited 'guests', etc)
    The anonymity that is so great and must be defended as long as the interaction/relationship between all the parties are strictly virtual.

    As organizers, suddenly, it becomes commercial and contractual. Money is involved.

    I do like to know whom I am dealing with, when I am sending money his/hers way, for services yet to be provided.

    That is why, I believe to qualify as organizers, they should lodge their identity information with CS administration: real name, IC or passport number and picture, contact address and phone. This should prevent nasty surprises, as anyone intending to pull a fast one is not likely to be so candid about there personal info.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  13. #73

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by JayKay View Post
    It is neither and to be precise it is about "young and eager girls readily posing for male photographers for small fee, even free".
    Iirc, there was only 1 model but 4 organisers interviewed and quoted. The model of the shoot where their photographer was "invited" to was never quoted at all. I wonder if she was interviewed or if she was but did not say things in line with their motive.
    However, what the article leads to is summed up by the invitation at the end which I quote runs like this:

    "Young girls posing in bikinis or lingerie for money - Is it appropriate? Have your say at www.straitstimes.com"

    One organiser, Mike Tan, was quoted as saying ""In the old days, they would be about 18 to 25, now they are usually 14 to 22". How true is it in regards to models of his shoots here, especially in regards to the title of the article? Was he aware of the aim of the reporter when he made that statement?

    In the print version, another organiser, Sophia Lin, was reported to have said "there are a handful of photographers known to be touchy" and organising nude shoots is out for her but "sometimes the girls will take off their bras and cover themselves with their hands or a towel". What do you think she did for the reputation of this forum?
    other than bikinisand lingerie, they also missed out kinki and fetish~ish looking outfits...
    I am NOT a PROfessional photographer and photography is NOT my hobby

  14. #74

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Yes, that is what I meant. However, more importantly, is the trust between the organizer and the photographers and the model(s).

    If I attend a shoot, as Vince said in another post, I do not expect to have a reporter presence whom was invited by the photographer. This should be disclosed at the time of signing up, not just prior to the shoot. That is a total breech of trust.
    Well, I have recently participated in a bikini shoot. We were doing this in public, everyone's looking & anyone else that has a camera, be it a DSLR or Hp can very well just popped by to join the shoot = invasion of privacy? We are in a public place, anyone be it a reporter or your mum could be watching over you

    Anyway, while we were shooting. 2 tourists walked by & asked if they could take some pics with the model. We all had no problem & they took a few shots, waved good bye etc. My opinion is as long as everyone's polite, permission asked & granted, we (including the model) were comfortable, there isn't a problem. But later that day, someone from another group "stole" some shots from our group & it became a heated debate. Why? Money is involved & someone immediately hurled "copyrights".....

    Now, back to the journalist "covering" the shoot. I as a paying participant = client, would want to know before hand about this rather than on the spot. No doubt there is nothing wrong with what we are doing, it is about some privacy which reminds me of a recent TV coverage that I was involved. A certain Mr A happened to be in a mall & the cameraman shot him there. Mr A was furious because his permission was not seeked & he demanded that the tape be erased immediately then threatened to sue the mall should he be seen in the program. Quite a commotion.

    Whatever it is, speaking as a client, I would feel that it's basic courtesy to be briefed on the itinerary prior to the event from the organiser.

    To be frank, I do not know who are the organisers & vice versa. It has co-existed pretty well so far I think & I'm sure some of you do know each other quite well.

    Other than models that don't turned up, backed out or perpetually late. There are also tales of organisers that took off with our money & not paying the models. Maybe the shoots have become so cheap of late that we are not respecting this trade anymore?

    There has also been talks of "policing", registering the models & organisers with the admin. Maybe this will help but it'll generate more work for everybody which will increase the cost but then again it may also generate more quality shoots so as to ensure that the models, organisers & shooters conduct themselves with some professionalism. Everybody plays a part.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by NineEleven View Post
    Well, I have recently participated in a bikini shoot. We were doing this in public, everyone's looking & anyone else that has a camera, be it a DSLR or Hp can very well just popped by to join the shoot = invasion of privacy? We are in a public place, anyone be it a reporter or your mum could be watching over you

    Anyway, while we were shooting. 2 tourists walked by & asked if they could take some pics with the model. We all had no problem & they took a few shots, waved good bye etc. My opinion is as long as everyone's polite, permission asked & granted, we (including the model) were comfortable, there isn't a problem. But later that day, someone from another group "stole" some shots from our group & it became a heated debate. Why? Money is involved & someone immediately hurled "copyrights".....

    Now, back to the journalist "covering" the shoot. I as a paying participant = client, would want to know before hand about this rather than on the spot. No doubt there is nothing wrong with what we are doing, it is about some privacy which reminds me of a recent TV coverage that I was involved. A certain Mr A happened to be in a mall & the cameraman shot him there. Mr A was furious because his permission was not seeked & he demanded that the tape be erased immediately then threatened to sue the mall should he be seen in the program. Quite a commotion.

    Whatever it is, speaking as a client, I would feel that it's basic courtesy to be briefed on the itinerary prior to the event from the organiser.

    To be frank, I do not know who are the organisers & vice versa. It has co-existed pretty well so far I think & I'm sure some of you do know each other quite well.

    Other than models that don't turned up, backed out or perpetually late. There are also tales of organisers that took off with our money & not paying the models. Maybe the shoots have become so cheap of late that we are not respecting this trade anymore?

    There has also been talks of "policing", registering the models & organisers with the admin. Maybe this will help but it'll generate more work for everybody which will increase the cost but then again it may also generate more quality shoots so as to ensure that the models, organisers & shooters conduct themselves with some professionalism. Everybody plays a part.
    copyrights? eh none of you own copyrights to a shoot le. lol now i know why its such a joke when people claim their copyright is being violated if they're being photographed.
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  16. #76
    Senior Member ejunlow's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    I wonder where's the line drawn between an organised bikini shoot... and a fashion / bikini workshop...

    Is it simply because one has the guidance of a mentor that made it seem "morally" acceptable? or is it simply because those that go for workshops and lessons are in the "right" mentality to shoot the girls.. (nude or otherwise)

    When we did nude drawings in class (that's a decade back)... no one complained it was morally wrong... why's that? So is it simply because of the image-capturing medium that made it such a whole WOOHAA? - that you can now POST images online... and pencil sketches doesnt turn anyone on???

    As someone that shoots people... i really dont care what the models are wearing if I know what the hell i'm doing... but then again, I certainly know what images would leave room for people to call me a voyeuring freako.. If it was simply because of "TECHNICAL" know-how and visual art classes that gives me the RIGHT to shoot women in very little clothing... maybe all photographers should go to art school ... YAY.. then why would it be called "the world's greatest hobby" anymore.. it should be called the world's most popular subject.

    For those people that think shooting models in lingerie and bikini are very HUM SUP... Why would any perv pay $XX to shoot women in little attire when they have pay $0 for XXX at home on the web.. For goodness sake they can go cable and subscribe to Fashion TV and see all the girls they want....

    My thoughts though .. is to simply know what is visual art... and what is aimless snapping.... Photographers can learn to shoot form and figure without having to shoot bikinis or nudes for a start... and organisers can always dont organise bikini and lingerie shoots for amatuer photographers.... many others (DP included) have proved u dont need LITTLE attire to make a shoot successfull... so really.... Leave bikinis and lingerie and nudes to PRIVATE shooting (think DP too)... and keep organised shoots casual (casual can be SENSUAL too)... that's just ME and the way i work... HELL why would i wanna shoot a girl in lingerie with half a dozen other photographers and make her look like she's doing a strip show... No rapport, No commitment, No Results. and it makes the poor little lady work so hard just for a couple of dollars???? If a woman wanted to shoot nude.... she'd PAY people like us to get it done.... simply cause... they want it done WELL... Oh... and half of those clients that wanna do nude shoots... they are usually PLUS SIZED....

    Would you really wanna shoot a NUDE/Scantily Clad woman locally? I wonder how many of them are actually PIN UP material... and yeah if they are PIN UP material .. maybe they wouldnt be doing organised shoots no longer... So yeah ... For eveyrone reading this thread.... Spare those photographers that are learning the skill and pursuing the passion... and spare the orgnaisers that are trying to earn whatever miserable monies they are making... and if you are really out there for the BOSOMS and BUTTOCKS.... well .... shame of you!

    Do you really know your organisers???? NO
    Do you really know yourself???? PROBABLY

    In the end, Photography is such a important gift to the world that no one will be able to STOP IT from becoming THE WORLD'S greatest HOBBY.... and PEOPLE are the best subjects around that no one will be able to STOP IT from becoming an integral choice as a subject matter... so lets all just MOVE ON with these lives we find so interesting in the first place....

    P/S: I'm not against organisers organising any form of shoots.... nor have I joined ANY organised shoots in my lifetime shooting.. so yeah .. you can safely say that is my simple few cents....

    Ejun
    Last edited by ejunlow; 9th April 2009 at 10:02 AM.
    EJUNLOW.com . Like my work on FACEBOOK

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ejunlow View Post
    I wonder where's the line drawn between an organised bikini shoot... and a fashion / bikini workshop...

    Is it simply because one has the guidance of a mentor that made it seem "morally" acceptable? or is it simply because those that go for workshops and lessons are in the "right" mentality to shoot the girls.. (nude or otherwise)

    When we did nude drawings in class (that's a decade back)... no one complained it was morally wrong... why's that? So is it simply because of the image-capturing medium that made it such a whole WOOHAA? - that you can now POST images online... and pencil sketches doesnt turn anyone on???

    As someone that shoots people... i really dont care what the models are wearing if I know what the hell i'm doing... but then again, I certainly know what images would leave room for people to call me a voyeuring freako.. If it was simply because of "TECHNICAL" know-how and visual art classes that gives me the RIGHT to shoot women in very little clothing... maybe all photographers should go to art school ... YAY.. then why would it be called "the world's greatest hobby" anymore.. it should be called the world's most popular subject.

    For those people that think shooting models in lingerie and bikini are very HUM SUP... Why would any perv pay $XX to shoot women in little attire when they have pay $0 for XXX at home on the web.. For goodness sake they can go cable and subscribe to Fashion TV and see all the girls they want....

    My thoughts though .. is to simply know what is visual art... and what is aimless snapping.... Photographers can learn to shoot form and figure without having to shoot bikinis or nudes for a start... and organisers can always dont organise bikini and lingerie shoots for amatuer photographers.... many others have proved u dont need LITTLE attire to make a shoot successfull... so really.... Leave bikinis and lingerie and nudes to PRIVATE shooting... and keep organised shoots casual (casual can be SENSUAL too)... that's just ME and the way i work... HELL why would i wanna shoot a girl in lingerie with half a dozen other photographers and make her look like she's doing a strip show... No rapport, No commitment, No Results. and it makes the poor little lady work so hard just for a couple of dollars????

    Would you really wanna shoot a NUDE/Scantily Clad woman locally? I wonder how many of them are actually PIN UP material... and yeah if they are PIN UP material .. maybe they wouldnt be doing organised shoots no longer... So yeah ... For eveyrone reading this thread.... Spare those photographers that learning the skill and persuing the passion... and spare the orgnaisers that are trying to earn whatever miserable monies they are making... and if you are really out there for the BOSOMS and BUTTOCKS.... well .... shame of you!

    Do you really know your organisers???? NO
    Do you really know yourself???? PROBABLY

    P/S: I'm not against organisers organising any form of shoots.... nor have I joined ANY organised shoots in my lifetime shooting.. so yeah .. you can safely say that is my simple few cents....

    Ejun
    wah such a potty mouth
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  18. #78
    Senior Member ejunlow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    wah such a potty mouth
    Keeps the world ALIVE !!!!
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  19. #79
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Where there is demand for lingerie/bikini shoots, there would usually be supply.
    Provided there is nothing illegal going on, there is little point in arguing to achieve the moral high ground.
    Let them be.

    When $ changes hands in the organisation of a photoshoot, I'd have to agree with Deadpoet that it's wise to know who you're dealing with. Ultimately it's more important that no 'nasty surprises' crop up at the beginning of, or during the shoot, especially if it's the organiser's doing.
    Exploring! :)

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    Where there is demand for lingerie/bikini shoots, there would usually be supply.
    Provided there is nothing illegal going on, there is little point in arguing to achieve the moral high ground.
    Let them be.

    When $ changes hands in the organisation of a photoshoot, I'd have to agree with Deadpoet that it's wise to know who you're dealing with. Ultimately it's more important that no 'nasty surprises' crop up at the beginning of, or during the shoot, especially if it's the organiser's doing.
    ok why don't we start with our organizer's credit history as well as permanent record?
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

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