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Thread: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

  1. #21
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    Got Couching Tiger stance one!

    Or Sleeping Mantis style?
    Last edited by Sion; 6th April 2009 at 06:03 PM.

  2. #22
    Member Static's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Got Couching Tiger stance one!

    Or Sleeping Mantis style?
    Hey hey, i been trying to learn such stances for ages !

    But this stance only Ang Moh can master

    陳綺貞 2010 [夏季練習曲] 巡迴演唱會 Cheer Concert 13 Nov 2010 MAX Pavilion@Singapore Expo

  3. #23

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Got Couching Tiger stance one!

    Or Sleeping Mantis style?
    醉罗汉!!!!
    Dreams at Photoaid! Contact me, pls!

  4. #24
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    Hey hey, i been trying to learn such stances for ages !

    But this stance only Ang Moh can master

    Top right blue jean one is Pissing Monkey Stance.

    Red shirt Ang Moh one is Monkey Bum or Monkey Catching Crab Stance depending which Kungfu school you're with.
    Last edited by Sion; 6th April 2009 at 07:38 PM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Here's the Lost Monkey stance for the newbies who have no clue what to do in a photoshoot:


  6. #26
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    In my view, the organiser must get 100% agreement from EVERY single photographer, PRIOR to the shoot, BEFORE even allowing the reporter/journalist to appear.

    I'm not sure if this was done, or whether it was more of "after the fact", ie photograhers show up and then were told about the reporter, and that if they dont like, the reporter will be asked to leave - in my view this does not quite seem acceptable as some meeker photogrraphers, whilst having objections, may not have sufficient fortitute to raise them or may be bowed by peer pressure.

    Or as DP has said, all may have objected, but the reporter can then shoot from a distance.

    Perhaps the relevant organisers (I don't even recall who they are) may like to clarify and clear the air. If indeed the latter, then apologise, admit the mistake and learn from it

    If I was one of the participating photographers, I would be very unhappy if the organiser let a reporter into the shoot WITHOUT first informing me about it BEFOREHAND. I would then sit down and think of all possible legal actions that can be taken against him if I felt sufficiently cheesed off.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    With the bruhaha all over town on the organizer who let ST reproter into his shoot, and the clandestine reporter who infiltrated a shoot last year, I have a few questions.

    Do we know our organizers? Meaning, can we trust our organizers to do the right thing. The organizer who let the reporter into his shoot claimed that if the photographers are not comfortable, he will tell the reporter to leave. Sorry, too late, they are shooting in a public place, and anyone can take picture of anything in public. DUH! And journalist will claim said pictures are newsworthy, nothing any of the photographer can do.

    Do we know what are the intentions of all the other fellow photographers there shooting? Is one or more than one of the photographers infiltrating the shoot for intentions other than getting good or even not so good images of the model?

    What can we do??? What should we do??

    I am asking this question to organizers, who needs to protect the photographers and models from infiltrators, and to the photographers, whom must protect themselves from an organizers whom had cut other under the table deals with someone whose intention is not taking pictures of the model.

    I don't want to and intent to bash anyone. However this is a lesson we must learn. The word is not a safe place for photographers.

  7. #27
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Can I request that OT be kept to a minimum in this thread? If you wish to discuss photographer stances, do start a new thread where it may be better received.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Got Couching Tiger stance one!

    Or Sleeping Mantis style?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Top right blue jean one is Pissing Monkey Stance.

    Red shirt Ang Moh one is Monkey Bum or Monkey Catching Crab Stance depending which Kungfu school you're with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Here's the Lost Monkey stance for the newbies who have no clue what to do in a photoshoot:

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    ....best way to avoid being cornered, organize shoot yourself...then you can be assured that reporter will be there only upon your request.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    wahaha the last part at the end makes it sound so wrong

  10. #30

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    In my view, the organiser must get 100% agreement from EVERY single photographer, PRIOR to the shoot, BEFORE even allowing the reporter/journalist to appear.

    I'm not sure if this was done, or whether it was more of "after the fact", ie photograhers show up and then were told about the reporter, and that if they dont like, the reporter will be asked to leave - in my view this does not quite seem acceptable as some meeker photogrraphers, whilst having objections, may not have sufficient fortitute to raise them or may be bowed by peer pressure.

    Or as DP has said, all may have objected, but the reporter can then shoot from a distance.

    Perhaps the relevant organisers (I don't even recall who they are) may like to clarify and clear the air. If indeed the latter, then apologise, admit the mistake and learn from it

    If I was one of the participating photographers, I would be very unhappy if the organiser let a reporter into the shoot WITHOUT first informing me about it BEFOREHAND. I would then sit down and think of all possible legal actions that can be taken against him if I felt sufficiently cheesed off.
    I did raise the same points and questions in another thread and this is the organiser's reply

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=44

    He ignores what I pointed out as "asking after the fact" and insisted that he did right. duh!
    Another organiser who was a participant in his shoot joined in to defend him even though they were slinging mud at each other earlier in the thread.

    Whilst he kept insisting that no photographer objected, I did get him to admit that "the other (2) model was shy to be featured so they wasnt inside.." per

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=53

    and he insisted that there was no distraction from the objective of the shoot. So much for his knowledge of taking photographs of people. He apparently doesn't undertand or care to ensure that the models should be at ease and the ambient environment should be conducive to the creation of good images. Finally, the TS (the other organiser) closed the thread at his request.

    So, there is more than one organiser who would forsake his obligation to his paying customers and then use them to put on a show, in pursuance of their own and conflicting interest, ostensibly for the sake of an interview and seeing their shoot appear in the newspapers without a care for consequences for our forum.

    If we allow such organisers with such an attitude to get away with using his clients this way, we may one day find an entire TV news crew documenting one of his shoots. Whilst there is nothing each of us can do about this individually, I will definitely exercise my right to boycott their shoots.
    Last edited by JayKay; 6th April 2009 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Correction of tenses

  11. #31

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Danntbt View Post
    ....best way to avoid being cornered, organize shoot yourself...then you can be assured that reporter will be there only upon your request.
    Being hunted by wolves is one thing, but only the stupid or insane will let a wolf in the door.
    Also, please remember that there are some really good organisers who do take good care of their customers e.g. Modelin, Charby, etc whom I have never heard any complains about. I have full confidence in them and would shoot with them anyday.
    I think the reporter know this too from her reference to $250 shoots but did not check with them as it did not suit her agenda.
    Otoh, I sometimes use the "budget" shoots to observe and spot potential models to engage for my private shoots but I do that not for security reasons.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    this situation is rather strange, participants pay to attend shoots, when a "situation" arises, why where are their voices?

    to that end, forumers are splitted hairs for them?

    some may shoot me for being selfish, but IMO its really very strange, & i'm saying it as it is.
    have u seen the "light" yet?

  13. #33

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    this situation is rather strange, participants pay to attend shoots, when a "situation" arises, why where are their voices?

    to that end, forumers are splitted hairs for them?

    some may shoot me for being selfish, but IMO its really very strange, & i'm saying it as it is.
    The organiser had already put them in a spot where it was "damned if I do and damned if I didn't". The newspaper photographer was already there, like it or not. Whatever they do will be reported. It would appear worse if it was reported in the Sunday Times that their photographer was chased off. wouldn't it?
    Besides, they wouldn't be able stop him from shooting the whole group at it from a distance and no-one can be sure if he came prepared with an ultra-telephoto or not.
    At the mercy of the press, it would have been far wiser to be co-operative than antagonise them.
    Last edited by JayKay; 6th April 2009 at 11:27 PM.

  14. #34
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    On this, I agree, which was why I stated my POV in the earlier post that permission ought to be sought BEFORE the ST team appeared on set, not during/after.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayKay View Post
    The organiser had already put them in a spot where it was "damned if I do and damned if I didn't". The newspaper photographer was already there, like it or not. Whatever they do will be reported. It would appear worse if it was reported in the Sunday Times that their photographer was chased off. wouldn't it?
    Besides, they wouldn't be able stop him from shooting the whole group at it from a distance and no-one can be sure if he came prepared with an ultra-telephoto or not.
    At the mercy of the press, it would have been far wiser to be co-operative than antagonise them.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    I thought the papers was focusing more on the models than the organisers?
    I am NOT a PROfessional photographer and photography is NOT my hobby

  16. #36

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    now u will never know who is reading this forum.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Youhong View Post
    I thought the papers was focusing more on the models than the organisers?
    It is neither and to be precise it is about "young and eager girls readily posing for male photographers for small fee, even free".
    Iirc, there was only 1 model but 4 organisers interviewed and quoted. The model of the shoot where their photographer was "invited" to was never quoted at all. I wonder if she was interviewed or if she was but did not say things in line with their motive.
    However, what the article leads to is summed up by the invitation at the end which I quote runs like this:

    "Young girls posing in bikinis or lingerie for money - Is it appropriate? Have your say at www.straitstimes.com"

    One organiser, Mike Tan, was quoted as saying ""In the old days, they would be about 18 to 25, now they are usually 14 to 22". How true is it in regards to models of his shoots here, especially in regards to the title of the article? Was he aware of the aim of the reporter when he made that statement?

    In the print version, another organiser, Sophia Lin, was reported to have said "there are a handful of photographers known to be touchy" and organising nude shoots is out for her but "sometimes the girls will take off their bras and cover themselves with their hands or a towel". What do you think she did for the reputation of this forum?
    Last edited by JayKay; 7th April 2009 at 02:10 AM.

  18. #38
    Deregistered scandal599's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Having read thru DP's thread, here are my thoughts.

    What has been discussed so far in relation to organisers is compelling, save for some OT post and a post which basically pokes fun at DP's comments, which I find somewhat distasteful and inane.

    But as with JK, I will for one at this juncture give Sophia the benefit of a doubt. What she has said may be taken out of context or otherwise, so until something is heard from her, I will give her that benefit of the doubt.

    BUT, what I read as per the article and as per the postings made as far as as the "invitation" of the journo is concerned, the way I see it, it is a breach of trust between photog and organiser and at the same time the models. Even if Krislynn is featured in the papers, and she is willing (not too sure to what degree), there is a sense of lost and misplaced trust.

    Going by what has been happening so far here in CS with respect to organisers, models and photogs, it leaves me wondering whether or not there is any sense of mutal respect for one other. We have models becoming pilots and now we have covert operatives. Somehow as what DP said, the world is no longer safe for photographers.

    The bullet in hand comes in various forms:
    1) A model's blog, in this case she was quoted in the interview.
    2) The statement made by a one Mike Tan and this is probably the fatality of such a quote.
    3) As far as Sophia is concerned, I will rather leave that as a blank or dummy round first till I am proven otherwise.

    When shoots are concerned, I believe that the trust that should exist between the photog and organisers is one where it should not be taken lightly. The photogs of the organiser may well be his asset in the sense that many of them are repeat clients. Once that trust is broken, then honestly...it is anybody's guess.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    hello, its public space, even police cant stop the reporter from taking photos of the group, so u think the org can stop him? have u not been reading cs forum about streets photography?

    the question here is, dp, correct me if i mis-interpreat ur post, is did the org has the interest of the photogs and models as 1st priority?
    Yes, that is what I meant. However, more importantly, is the trust between the organizer and the photographers and the model(s).

    If I attend a shoot, as Vince said in another post, I do not expect to have a reporter presence whom was invited by the photographer. This should be disclosed at the time of signing up, not jsut prior to the shoot. That is a total breech of trust.


    Quote Originally Posted by DSLRcainiao View Post
    i know i know... i guess all got to be as rich as mr DP... to have own home studio den can shoot safely protecting all the models and photographer.. make sure all curtains are closed properly too..wan shoot what also can hor... hahaha.. your photograph did give all a great idea.. we shall all work towards your direction...
    And your point is?
    deadpoet
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  20. #40
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Do we really know our Photoshoot Organizers ...

    There may be room to argue for a breach of contract as well

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Yes, that is what I meant. However, more importantly, is the trust between the organizer and the photographers and the model(s).

    If I attend a shoot, as Vince said in another post, I do not expect to have a reporter presence whom was invited by the photographer. This should be disclosed at the time of signing up, not jsut prior to the shoot. That is a total breech of trust.

    And your point is?

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