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Thread: ethical or not?

  1. #21
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Street, does one NEED to produce an IC when visiting a regular neighborhood clinic?

    curious

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by innovas1
    Streetshooter, does it mean I do not have any grounds to complain against the doctor?


    Although what i said is true, but if the complaint acquit the doc, the doc can file a suit against me? If this is the case, then there is no justice in Singapore, no hope in the world!
    I did not say that you don't have grounds for complaint. But tread carefully.

    Remember that there are always 2 sides to every story, and we have only heard your side of it.

    Better to stick to the general principle of "innocent until proven guilty" (although admittedly the administration of justice is not always perfect - but it's all we've got). You would not appreciate someone else making public accusations against you and naming you, would you? Remember the golden rule: Do unto others as you would have others do to you.

    There is a good chance that the doctor concerned was a hired locum (temporary replacement doctor eg when the main doctor goes on holiday - some of these are notorious for their incredibly bad attitudes - I only hire people I know I can trust otherwise I'd rather close the clinic), in which case the clinic owners might have good ground to claim damages against you for tarnishing the good name of their clinic. Have you considered this? I'm glad you've withdrawn the name (and no, I'm not affiliated with them in any way).

    Ed: not a legal requirement as far as I know. Otherwise, can you imagine a situation where I refuse to treat a dying patient because he did not bring his NRIC?

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreetShooter
    Erm... not me, hor?

    http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/SMChome.html

    Click on Complaints / Disciplinary Proceedings.

    There's a form you can download and submit.

    I would think twice about publicly naming the clinic, since, if the allegations are somehow found to be false, you run the risk of being countersued for defamation.

    Having said that, what you described is unacceptably unprofessional conduct, and a complaint is definitely in order, if true.

    vince123123, i got it from here.. this form said so..
    Last edited by innovas1; 29th October 2003 at 05:21 PM.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreetShooter
    I did not say that you don't have grounds for complaint. But tread carefully.

    Remember that there are always 2 sides to every story, and we have only heard your side of it.

    Better to stick to the general principle of "innocent until proven guilty" (although admittedly the administration of justice is not always perfect - but it's all we've got). You would not appreciate someone else making public accusations against you and naming you, would you? Remember the golden rule: Do unto others as you would have others do to you.

    There is a good chance that the doctor concerned was a hired locum (temporary replacement doctor eg when the main doctor goes on holiday - some of these are notorious for their incredibly bad attitudes - I only hire people I know I can trust otherwise I'd rather close the clinic), in which case the clinic owners might have good ground to claim damages against you for tarnishing the good name of their clinic. Have you considered this? I'm glad you've withdrawn the name (and no, I'm not affiliated with them in any way).

    Ed: not a legal requirement as far as I know. Otherwise, can you imagine a situation where I refuse to treat a dying patient because he did not bring his NRIC?


    Ok, we can give the doc a chance to explain. Anyway, what i said is the truth...
    Granted that the doctor might have his own troubles, thats why he acted that way. I guess maybe some of you might want to side with him, coz different people have different opinions.. It might be that the doctor has greviances against the clinic and thus behaved that way.



    Treat people the way you would like to be treated ? Is the doctor asking me to treat him the way he treated me???

    Ok, I will not treat him the way he treated me.
    Last edited by innovas1; 29th October 2003 at 05:26 PM.

  5. #25
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    Hi, I also sympathize with your situation, and have some questions and suggestions.

    Firstly, what made the doctor conclude that you are poor and unable to pay for operation? If you were rich, I am sure you would have received much better treatment, a sad but true fact in the material world. But I am not clear what it was that made the doctor conclude you were not well off, and thereby give you crappy treatment.

    I know it's too late, but if I were you at that time, I would have threatened to (and carried out on the threat) call the police if they did not return my IC. They have no legal right to hold on to your IC. So you had every right to call the police to settle this dispute. I bet you'd have seen a big change in their attitude once a policeman was around. Also, once police come into the clinic there will be a big hooha and the reputation of the doctor will be put under the microscope by all, including the other patients at that time.

    About "getting back" at the doctor. I'd advise against taking action against them. If you step too far, you could end up the one being sued etc... for defamation or what ever else the doctor may have in his pocket... If this doctor is as bad as he sounds, chances are he's been sued before, and chances are he already has a lawyer and has had experience in the court. Taking legal action is a lengthy, and exhausting and expensive process and can lead to more heartache and trouble. I'd suggest that you don't stoop to his level and retaliate which could make life worse for everyone, yourself included. Even if you are right, and he is wrong, he may still win the court case. That's a fact of life, that sometimes it just isn't fair.

    What I would do, is just what you're already doing, make this known. If I were you I would indeed post the doctor's name and clinic's name and address. That way, other patients who may be going there will be on the lookout and will have forewarning about this keeping-your-IC thing. But don't have an expectation of getting back at the doctor for the humiliation he put you through.

    I also want to echo what (I think it was) StreetShooter said, that there are indeed 2 sides to every story. I don't doubt that what you said is true. It's just that it's one side of the story. Don't misunderstand, I am not siding with the doctor. It's just that we don't know the doctor's side, and I'm sure, the doctor has a side of the same story to tell... Neither am I saying that the doctor's side justifies his bad behaviour, it's just that, we haven't heard the other side.

    Perhaps the other side of the story just shows him out to be as much of an a--hole as what you've written, perhaps he has some points to add that none of us are aware of.

  6. #26

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    i dun think there is anything about me that made the doc think i am poor. Rather, it is because i went there by myself. I think most of the people have companies to sponsor their bills but i am paying my own medical bills... Does it make a difference?














    anyway, which one is better, send to the singapore medical council or SMA?
    Last edited by innovas1; 30th October 2003 at 09:11 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by innovas1
    i dun think there is anything about me that made the doc think i am poor. Rather, it is because i went there by myself. I think most of the people have companies to sponsor their bills but i am paying my own medical bills... Does it make a difference?












    nah.... i see those docs are mt elizabeth with my own pockets too.... as read from yr thread... i think hes a "DOG EYE SEE PEOPLE LOW" PEEP.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by innovas1
    anyway, which one is better, send to the singapore medical council or SMA?
    SMA is not a disciplinary body. It is an association that (supposedly) looks after doctors' welfare. They will refer you to the SMC, which is the disciplinary body overseeing medical practice in Singapore.

  9. #29

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    i called smc to book an appointment to swear for this sat but she can't make it, i was asked to call her next week to book an appointment on next sat...
    haiz..

    i think i'll write to straits times first.

  10. #30
    vince123123
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    wah got such thing as can't make it arh. or conveniently siam so no need to do work hehe :P


    Quote Originally Posted by innovas1
    i called smc to book an appointment to swear for this sat but she can't make it, i was asked to call her next week to book an appointment on next sat...
    haiz..

    i think i'll write to straits times first.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by innovas1
    i called smc to book an appointment to swear for this sat but she can't make it, i was asked to call her next week to book an appointment on next sat...
    haiz..

    i think i'll write to straits times first.
    i think any notary public/commissioner for oaths also can....

  12. #32

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    i dunno lei.. ask you all, if i write to the press, can I say: A clinic in XXX shopping centre?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by innovas1
    i dunno lei.. ask you all, if i write to the press, can I say: A clinic in XXX shopping centre?
    if you're writing to the press (ST Forum), try not to indicate any names. write your side of the encounter, and post the questions to the relevant parties (medical council?) on what can be done...

    you have to think about what you want to do really carefully...coz you're not dealing with the garang-guni man here...you're making a complaint against a doctor...

  14. #34
    vince123123
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    use $$$ anything also can hehe :P

    Quote Originally Posted by rncw
    i think any notary public/commissioner for oaths also can....

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    use $$$ anything also can hehe :P
    the fees are not high..

    from what i've experienced....

    commisioner for oaths : about 20 (subjected to gst) *
    notaries public : about 40 (subjected to gst) *

    these are just rough price estimates...

    if innovas1 wants to send in the complaint faster (before the memories of the incident start to fade), then can consider....else, just wait for the medical council to witness your SD.


    * the above prices are not and should not be taken as the actual quotations

  16. #36
    vince123123
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    If im correct, you dont have to go to a notary public. a commissioner for oaths would suffice.

    second, you can draft your SD first and get it sworn/affirmed later, to prevent the memory loss issue. the purpose of the oath is just to ensure that you are the person in the SD and the commissioner witnesses that you are who you say you are and you are the person who signed it.



    Quote Originally Posted by rncw
    the fees are not high..

    from what i've experienced....

    commisioner for oaths : about 20 (subjected to gst) *
    notaries public : about 40 (subjected to gst) *

    these are just rough price estimates...

    if innovas1 wants to send in the complaint faster (before the memories of the incident start to fade), then can consider....else, just wait for the medical council to witness your SD.


    * the above prices are not and should not be taken as the actual quotations

  17. #37
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    just spoken to someone in the legal field...yes...commissioner for oaths would suffice..notary public is normally for overseas' purposes...

    anyway innovas1, if you're determined to proceed on the make a formal complaint, be prepared (just in case you need legal help).



    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    If im correct, you dont have to go to a notary public. a commissioner for oaths would suffice.

    second, you can draft your SD first and get it sworn/affirmed later, to prevent the memory loss issue. the purpose of the oath is just to ensure that you are the person in the SD and the commissioner witnesses that you are who you say you are and you are the person who signed it.

  18. #38
    vince123123
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    i doubt there are any legal consequences when making a formal compliant to SMC, aka defamation suits etc. that is different from writing to the press.


    Quote Originally Posted by rncw
    just spoken to someone in the legal field...yes...commissioner for oaths would suffice..notary public is normally for overseas' purposes...

    anyway innovas1, if you're determined to proceed on the make a formal complaint, be prepared (just in case you need legal help).

  19. #39
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    you'll never know....and innovas1 mentioned about writing to the press?

    anyway, i'm not 'from the legal profession', so better not dishing out any more stuff about legal issues...

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    i doubt there are any legal consequences when making a formal compliant to SMC, aka defamation suits etc. that is different from writing to the press.

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