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Thread: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

  1. #21
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    seriously does anyone know why would some models like to play hard to get?

    could it be they think many people are desperate to shoot them? or

    really there are many people are desperate to shoot them?
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  2. #22

    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    seriously does anyone know why would some models like to play hard to get?

    could it be they think many people are desperate to shoot them? or

    really there are many people are desperate to shoot them?
    Like it or not, some are well sought after. there is no loyalty to organisors, but the shooters will shoot her even when she joins a new organisor.

    You cant stop the bees from going after the honey, well unless you sterilise them. but there are 20,000 bees in CS and the numbers had grown even larger by now.

  3. #23

    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    seriously does anyone know why would some models like to play hard to get?

    could it be they think many people are desperate to shoot them? or

    really there are many people are desperate to shoot them?
    most likely is "opportunity costs" ...
    always the Light, .... always.

  4. #24
    Member TheQuestion's Avatar
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    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    You'll be surprised that an agency does not have as much powers as you like to believe. I've encountered agency models who also flew the coop.
    ya but the difference is the agency can cut them loose and ship them off and blacklist them here.
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    let me suggest something fair...

    to safe guard against all parties, contract is necessary.

    For Organiser & Photographers, Payment from Photographers = acceptance of the contract
    If Photographer don't show up, its their own problem.
    If Organiser don't show up, then Photographers can request for reshoot or appropriate resolution.
    If there is any changes from Organiser side, minimum of 24hours before shoot in notification.

    For Models & Organisers = Payment to Models confirms the shoot.
    If Model don't show up, they breached the contract, hence liable to pay for the cost of organiser/photographers/etc.
    If Organiser change details in last minute, also breaches the contract. Hence a proper listing of duty to be provided to the models. Both should agree on the things to be done, level of difficulty of task to be performed by models to photographers. Also, this list should be briefed to the photographers as well so that they know not to overstep their authority.
    If models decide to pull off from the shoot, a minimum of 48hours notification prior to shoot to allow time for organiser to find replacement and negotiate with photographers. Photographers can then decide if they want to shoot the alternative models or a refund.

    Anyway above is just a suggestion. Organiser job is not easy, i understand, but overall, everyone is here to have fun.
    Last edited by Del_CtrlnoAlt; 2nd April 2009 at 10:50 AM.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    could it be they think many people are desperate to shoot them?
    Yes!


    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    or really there are many people are desperate to shoot them?
    Yes!


    You should try to be a model sometime to appreciate it.

  7. #27

    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    I have work with models (Singaporeans) before and sorry to say but (especially when they think they are popular) 60% of them are so UNPROFESSIONAL about their work ethics.

    They don't really care if they miss a shoot as to them, it's the photographers which are hungry for them as they(the models) are not really paid that well in the first place for this organised photoshoots on CS.

    I can share a few experience with you all on how models behave and I do blacklist them (some of them are supermodels). I was organising a shoot for a client of mine and they asked me to look for 2 models to fit into their theme. So as usual, calling some models via my network. Many came for the audition and my client narrow down to 2 models out of the 30 that came for it. We shortlisted another 2 more just in case something happen to the first 2.

    It took a good 3 weeks to organise with the 2 models and my client for the actual photoshoot. Oh yeah my client WAS going to pay them SGD$1000 each for 6 hours work which was a good market rate. At the very last hour, the 2 MODELS did not turn up at all, mobiles were switch off and there was no way to contact them at all.

    So obviously my client was not a happy man as he had to cancel his overseas trip just for this shoot. Thank god we were smart enough to shortlisted the other 2 models which happen to be free on that particular day. So shoot went on and finish off with a smile on my client's face. He was happy this 2 models were very professional and had great work ethics. The results came out better than expected and he decided to reward them with an additional $200 on top of the $1000 her was paying them.

    The very next day, the 2 models called me and told me some super lame excuse telling me there was an emergency at their home (obviously it was not as they were partying the whole night before with my friends until 5am). I told them I will never engage them and have them blacklisted for my future clients.

    As usual life goes on for me as another client of mine decided to engage me for a photoshoot for their fashion labels. So they showed me the models which they shortlisted and guess what? It was the 2 models they AEROPLANE me and my previous client. So this client of mine asked me what I think about this 2 models. Obviously I was very frank and told them that about the incident that happened. This client of mine was more fussy than the last one.

    So he called them up and told them nicely that he was not engaging them anymore as they were blacklisted by me. The 2 models called me and just blasted away with all the vulgar language. The best part was telling them this job went to the 2 model who came to my rescue on my last shoot. To top up the icing on the cake, I mentioned to them my current client will be paying them (the models who came to my rescue) $2,500 per person for the 2 days shoot.

    Sounds evil but that's the way to handle some of this brainless bimbos.....
    Last edited by Godzilla Invades; 2nd April 2009 at 10:55 AM.

  8. #28

    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    usually arrangement between models and organizer AND organizer and shooters are all done within 2 weeks ...... how to have written contracts? ...
    even in payment, I pay on the spot before I shoot .... and I usually confirm with the organizer 1 day before the shoot because I want to be 100% sure that I can make it
    if there is no slot, i will just go to shoot the bird and the bees ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    let me suggest something fair...

    to safe guard against all parties, contract is necessary.

    For Organiser & Photographers, Payment from Photographers = acceptance of the contract
    If Photographer don't show up, its their own problem.
    If Organiser don't show up, then Photographers can request for reshoot or appropriate resolution.
    If there is any changes from Organiser side, minimum of 24hours before shoot in notification.

    For Models & Organisers = Payment to Models confirms the shoot.
    If Model don't show up, they breached the contract, hence liable to pay for the cost of organiser/photographers/etc.
    If Organiser change details in last minute, also breaches the contract. Hence a proper listing of duty to be provided to the models. Both should agree on the things to be done, level of difficulty of task to be performed by models to photographers. Also, this list should be briefed to the photographers as well so that they know not to overstep their authority.
    If models decide to pull off from the shoot, a minimum of 48hours notification prior to shoot to allow time for organiser to find replacement and negotiate with photographers. Photographers can then decide if they want to shoot the alternative models or a refund.

    Anyway above is just a suggestion. Organiser job is not easy, i understand, but overall, everyone is here to have fun.
    always the Light, .... always.

  9. #29
    vince123123
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    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    This is not likely. First, because from statistics and the models I've hired, there is not even 10% who will reach this aeroplane status. It could also be because I choose my models more wisely.

    Second, even if we assume that there is a large majority of pilot models, by posting their names, it will serve as a future deterrent to future pilots; and I'll reckon that with time, the number of pilots will decrease because no one really wants to spoil their reputation if they want to engage in a vocation such as this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    from what we are reading here, maybe all the CS models will appear in the "blacklisted models" list .. then which one you will choose?

  10. #30

    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla Invades View Post
    The 2 models called me and just blasted away with all the vulgar language.
    printable?
    always the Light, .... always.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    usually arrangement between models and organizer AND organizer and shooters are all done within 2 weeks ...... how to have written contracts? ...
    even in payment, I pay on the spot before I shoot .... and I usually confirm with the organizer 1 day before the shoot because I want to be 100% sure that I can make it
    if there is no slot, i will just go to shoot the bird and the bees ....
    thats y changes are necessary...

    impromptu ones maybe organisers can cater for them if someone pulls out.

    but talking about contract, its simple, like i say, in cash... can do internet banking then solve the problem. u pay, reserves a seat. likewise to the models, u pay the models, u reserve them on that day...

    as for the contract, there is 52 weeks a year, hence a hardworking organiser can have up to 52 shoots a year, or more... so drafting a simple contract for multiple usage is not difficult and can save alot of hassle in the long run.
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  12. #32

    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    This is not likely. First, because from statistics and the models I've hired, there is not even 10% who will reach this aeroplane status. It could also be because I choose my models more wisely.

    Second, even if we assume that there is a large majority of pilot models, by posting their names, it will serve as a future deterrent to future pilots; and I'll reckon that with time, the number of pilots will decrease because no one really wants to spoil their reputation if they want to engage in a vocation such as this.
    recently a part-time CS pilot has gone to real estate sales .....
    always the Light, .... always.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    recently a part-time CS pilot has gone to real estate sales .....
    What a waste of talent!

  14. #34

    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    1. Chatting and getting closer to the models are of no use because apparently some of the models lives in my msn and contact list and we are friends. You can do anything about it when they say they have to withdraw due to blahblahblah. Usually if it's a solvable problem i'll help them with it but sometimes it's problems not within my control.

    2. It'll be difficult to hire models in the future if i demand compensation for withdrawing.

    3. Not all models withdraw 48 hours before the shoot. Some withdraw 10 hours before the shoot. Alot of them.



    I think they dont really care because they are not the one who are going to face the photographers and mess after this because im the one who's going to apologise to everyone. tsk.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melody-Love View Post
    1. Chatting and getting closer to the models are of no use because apparently some of the models lives in my msn and contact list and we are friends. You can do anything about it when they say they have to withdraw due to blahblahblah. Usually if it's a solvable problem i'll help them with it but sometimes it's problems not within my control.

    2. It'll be difficult to hire models in the future if i demand compensation for withdrawing.

    3. Not all models withdraw 48 hours before the shoot. Some withdraw 10 hours before the shoot. Alot of them.



    I think they dont really care because they are not the one who are going to face the photographers and mess after this because im the one who's going to apologise to everyone. tsk.
    thats y to safeguard yourself, a proper contract should be drafted.

    for pt 1, a line should be drawn when its work related... friendship aside...

    pt2, its only bad models that you get compensation from. good models will honor their contract and uphold their reputation. what do you want, have 100 bad models that you keep kena arrow or 10 models which gives u little or no problems.

    pt3, thats the stand you have to take, if models think you can be played with, then they might even give you 1 hour... you have to be firm with your stand. else we'll see more complain threads here.
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  16. #36
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Yes!

    Yes!

    You should try to be a model sometime to appreciate it.
    no thank you, CS has one super model, SION, which is good enough.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  17. #37
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by contaxable View Post
    Like it or not, some are well sought after. there is no loyalty to organisors, but the shooters will shoot her even when she joins a new organisor.

    You cant stop the bees from going after the honey, well unless you sterilise them. but there are 20,000 bees in CS and the numbers had grown even larger by now.
    I would rather shoot some ordinary people which don't know how to pose, and let them pay me money.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  18. #38

    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    printable?
    Actually it's quite intereting to hear this girls swear using from English to Hokkien to Malay........hahaha...

  19. #39
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    most likely is "opportunity costs" ...
    you mean who pay more and so let who shoot?
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  20. #40

    Default Re: THREE models backing out of shoots within ONE week -.- Grrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melody-Love View Post
    1. Chatting and getting closer to the models are of no use because apparently some of the models lives in my msn and contact list and we are friends. You can do anything about it when they say they have to withdraw due to blahblahblah. Usually if it's a solvable problem i'll help them with it but sometimes it's problems not within my control.

    2. It'll be difficult to hire models in the future if i demand compensation for withdrawing.

    3. Not all models withdraw 48 hours before the shoot. Some withdraw 10 hours before the shoot. Alot of them.



    I think they dont really care because they are not the one who are going to face the photographers and mess after this because im the one who's going to apologise to everyone. tsk.
    Well.....choose wisely (which is hard) but most of this models are mostly party girls and late night girls. This set of girls are definately a 50/50. There is no way to tell if they are sincere (which is rare).

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