Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 78

Thread: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

  1. #1

    Default Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    Do you think such behavior is fair and ethical?

    I kept all the seller's SMS as proof.


    Short Version:

    - Wanted to buy a lens.
    - Price settled on $480.
    - Assured in writing that lens functions perfectly.
    - It was spoilt. Cannot reach MFD no matter what mode.
    - Seller agreed to send lens for repair, and offer discount if the lens can be repaired. - I did the gentlemanly thing and promised to honor my end of the bargain if the lens can be repaired.
    - Now lens back, wants to INCREASE price to $550, let alone don’t honor promise to give discount.
    - Wait nearly one month is not the problem as I wanted to walk the talk and act honorably, but seller insists it’s seller’s RIGHT to charge more and told me to go elsewhere if I thought it was unreasonable.

    Do you think this is a fair way to trade, and is it ethical behaviour?




    Long version:

    Scenario:

    Wanted to buy a 2nd hand Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX DG macro lense (non-HSM) Serial number 3003880, slight cosmetic marks on cap from a CSer at the beginning of March.

    Based on seller's assurance that the lens was in perfect working condition with no focusing problems, we agreed on a price of $480.

    Met up and discovered that the lens was faulty. Doesn't go to the MFD.

    At this point, seller calls and consults friend (advisor) and claims that advisor says that that is the MFD. It's not and I pointed out that manufacturer's won't mark a scale more than the MFD and can always check the specs.

    On the spot I called Sigma and was told something was wrong and to send the lens in.

    Before we left, I asked for discount and seller agreed to give discount once the lens comes back. I assured seller that I would honor my side of the deal if the lens can be repaired.

    Fast forward: today, I receive word that lens is back. I asked what price. Seller says can't remember. I have to admit, at this point, I wanted to test the seller so I say I think it was 4+, but that before we left the meeting, seller had agreed to give a discount, plus I waited so long.

    I also mentioned that the lens was already faulty, and had to be repaired, and may not be as reliable as a non-faulty one (I have to bear this risk factor). This is not an L or Gold ED lense we're talking about, but 3rd party with known QC problems.

    Seller replied that since seller had to shell out money to pay for the repair, seller felt it was fair to charge me $550.

    I agree on seller's point that no one forced me to wait (see, what I get for trying to be honorable! No wonder dishonor is such a big practice on CS!) and that seller can't guarantee the future condition of the lens. OK, that's fair on the part of not knowing if the lens would give problems later on therefore it's A RISK I AM TAKING ON if I get the lens.

    In reply, I mentioned that the faulty lens was no fault of mine and that lens was assured to work perfectly prior to meet-up, so why should I be held ransom and be forced to pay a price INCREASE, even though it was ABSOLUTELY NO FAULT OF MINE, PLUS SELLER HAD AGREED TO EXTEND A DISCOUNT after the lens is serviced?

    I then forward seller the earlier SMSs where seller stated as fact that the lens was functioning perfectly, and the SMS where the price of $480 was agreed.

    Seller replies again that I am not being forced to buy, and to look for another deal if I feel it was unreasonable, but seller still had to charge more because seller had to pay for the repair.

    Do you think that is fair and ethical, SELLER WANTS TO INCREASE THE PRICE because the claimed ‘perfectly functioning’ lens was actually SPOILT, had to be repaired and seller had to pay for the repair and EVEN THOUGH seller agreed to OFFER A DISCOUNT after the lens is repaired?


    I may be wrong, but according to further SMSs, I get the impression seller actually thinks it's perfectly fair and seller's "RIGHT".

    What do you think?
    Last edited by Dream Merchant; 27th March 2009 at 08:15 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    er..

    how come i keep saying this today....


    WELCOME TO SINGAPORE..!!!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    er..

    how come i keep saying this today....


    WELCOME TO SINGAPORE..!!!
    Because it's UNIQUELY CHINGAPORE!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    It's also the buyer's right to tell the seller to stuff it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    谁是你
    Posts
    2,706

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    why dont you do the honorable thing by offering to pay for the lens repair costs?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    you see, somewhere along the way, someone started it. maybe it was a buyer.

    then soon, the sellers started realising that they could ride in with a screwed up attitude too. so it ends up that everyone that is nice, cordial and honours agreements kena, so in the end they also become pailang.

    there is a solid reason why i don't step into cs b&s unless i have a real choice, everytime i step in to sell, i get bombarded with nonsense quotes from people who may or may not be poor students, i get people who think that "fast deals" has become the new code word for "i am the best sight you will ever see and you will sell your item to me or..".. then you also get people who tell you "can you hold the item for me, i give you good price", then in the end they pangsei after making you hold it for 20 days and 20 nights despite getting better offers.

    i don't want to dump my principles, and i don't need to raise my blood pressure. welcome to cs b&s, where there is not enough regulation for a place involving a high exchange of money. yes, caveat emptor, but there should also be a basic safety net. the old rating system worked, if only we could bring it back.. with tighter and more stringent controls on haphazard clubsnap account registration.. then we will see less of such unhappy situations.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwitan View Post
    why dont you do the honorable thing by offering to pay for the lens repair costs?
    what's so honourable about that?

    it seems more stupid than honourable.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwitan View Post
    why dont you do the honorable thing by offering to pay for the lens repair costs?
    How can that be honorable, when the lens was promised to be in perfectly functioning condition and it wasn't and when it wasn't my fault that the lens was spoilt?

    I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say kiwitan...

  9. #9

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    Quote Originally Posted by drakon09 View Post
    It's also the buyer's right to tell the seller to stuff it.
    Well, I wouldn't put it that way exactly ...

  10. #10

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    Well, I wouldn't put it that way exactly ...
    you can call him a Manual Focus

  11. #11

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    If both parties cannot come to an agreement, basically, there is no deal.

    The seller can now calls his shot at $1k for this lens because he felt it has emotional sentiment attached to it. What can one do?

    And if there was a gentlemanly agreement by seller and he voids it now, it is not worth it to waste more time. Treat it as walk over deal and remember not to deal with him again.

    Honestly, I came across sellers who are so emo and talk non stop about how he got to heavens with the gears and hint hint higher price. I simply thanked him, gave him my blessings and walked off. Well no one's wrong, but i would rather spend time with some good buddies over beer.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    You have email records to back up your story?

    If you do, you should name the seller so that we can avoid him or her. But before that, give the person a last chance to fulfill the agreement by emailing him/her to tell him/her about your next course of action, to be fair. This is my personal suggestion.
    Last edited by third3rdwheel; 27th March 2009 at 08:55 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    I have the initial contact SMSes.

    I do not have a recording on what was discussed at the meet-up.

    Seller does not dispute offering a discount.

    At any rate, It's not like I'm seeking legal redress or anything like that.

    I just want to confirm my thoughts as to whether I was on the receiving end of the short straw, or not.

    OOPS, just saw your edit. Unfortunately I do not remember seller's nick or real name as it was so long ago when initial contact was made. I do have the cell number, but here's the thing, freom seller's tone, it appears that seller truly believes that seller should charge higher and not honor the agreement of discount.

    I could announce seller's cell number, but seller can always sell through friends or use a different number later on.
    Last edited by Dream Merchant; 27th March 2009 at 08:59 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    Quote Originally Posted by contaxable View Post
    If both parties cannot come to an agreement, basically, there is no deal.

    The seller can now calls his shot at $1k for this lens because he felt it has emotional sentiment attached to it. What can one do?

    And if there was a gentlemanly agreement by seller and he voids it now, it is not worth it to waste more time. Treat it as walk over deal and remember not to deal with him again.

    Honestly, I came across sellers who are so emo and talk non stop about how he got to heavens with the gears and hint hint higher price. I simply thanked him, gave him my blessings and walked off. Well no one's wrong, but i would rather spend time with some good buddies over beer.
    That's true.

    I just wanted to gather feedback ... just in case my intepretation might have been inaccurate, and if that were the case, I would not hesitate to apologise to the seller and do what what was deemed to be fair (since I promised to honor my side of the deal with said stipulations when we parted).
    Last edited by Dream Merchant; 27th March 2009 at 09:09 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    I have the initial contact SMSes.

    I do not have a recording on what was discussed at the meet-up.

    Seller does not dispute offering a discount.

    At any rate, It's not like I'm seeking legal redress or anything like that.

    I just want to confirm my thoughts as to whether I was on the receiving end of the short straw, or not.

    OOPS, just saw your edit. Unfortunately I do not remember seller's nick or real name as it was so long ago when initial contact was made. I do have the cell number, but here's the thing, freom seller's tone, it appears that seller truly believes that seller should charge higher and not honor the agreement of discount.

    I could announce seller's cell number, but seller can always sell through friends or use a different number later on.
    Just to share some thoughts with you about reputation of sellers in the watch collecting world. If a seller is like the one you described, he or she is named. It is not a legal dispute kind of thing but a seller reputation thing. The person is named so that other's will not buy from him or her. This is to discourage people from "flaking" (the action you described above) and helps keep sellers ethical. Doesn't matter that the person can change name or phone number or email. It causes inconvenience to such people, and they should be inconvenienced if guilty. How many times can he/she change his number? But like I said earlier, you must have proof to back up your story if you want to name the person, and also give the person the chance to right the wrong.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    Quote Originally Posted by third3rdwheel View Post
    Just to share some thoughts with you about reputation of sellers in the watch collecting world. If a seller is like the one you described, he or she is named. It is not a legal dispute kind of thing but a seller reputation thing. The person is named so that other's will not buy from him or her. This is to discourage people from "flaking" (the action you described above) and helps keep sellers ethical. Doesn't matter that the person can change name or phone number or email. It causes inconvenience to such people, and they should be inconvenienced if guilty. How many times can he/she change his number? But like I said earlier, you must have proof to back up your story if you want to name the person, and also give the person the chance to right the wrong.
    I forgot the person's nick and the real name is a Chinese one. I have problems with pronounciation, let alone memorising Chinese names.

    It's not that I don't want to name names, since I have written proof.

    I am all for the honor system, enforced and self-policed with assistance from moderators for forum classifieds becuase I've personally seen it work on the largest sports forum in the US and where a huge amount of trade gets done on a daily basis.

    I have just SMSed the seller about this thread. However, even if seller recants said actions, I'm not sure if I want to buy the lens now. What if seller 'does something to it' out of spite'?
    Last edited by Dream Merchant; 27th March 2009 at 09:29 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    I forgot the person's nick and the real name is a Chinese one. I have problems with pronounciation, let alone memorising Chinese names.

    It's not that I don't want to name names, since I have written proof.

    I am all for the honor system, enforced and self-policed with assistance from moderators for forum classifieds becuase I've personally seen it work on the largest sports forum in the US and where a huge amount of trade gets done on a daily basis.
    Anyway, just sharing some thoughts. I hope you find the lens you want, and at a reasonable price too. Cheers.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    Quote Originally Posted by third3rdwheel View Post
    Anyway, just sharing some thoughts. I hope you find the lens you want, and at a reasonable price too. Cheers.
    Thanks third3rdwheel. I appreciate it and know where you're coming from.

    CHEERS!

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Pasir Ris / Tampines
    Posts
    4,477

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    DM, there are these kinda of unethical ppl who are the black sheep in the B/S. Wat to do? Really suck thumb at times lor. No choice. But one thing u can help is if this guy is selling his same gear and claiming mint condition etc or wat, juz give a warning or send to mod to report etc. I once have a fren wanting to get a lens that he wan to buy from B/S but i did a check on his history and found that that guy has juz bought the lens from another CSer who sent for service and is selling away at higher price than bought claiming also mint condition. I also sold a bag to another guy and he in turn sold the bag at a higher cost to other guys. There are such ppl out to earn money one. We cant stop them one...

  20. #20
    Member/Tangshooter falconite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    AMK | Tang Shooters
    Posts
    2,203

    Default Re: Do you think this is fair or ethical?

    Hmm... you do not deserve this... sad that there is always ppl like that ~ a complete waste of time.

    Hope u get what you wanted soon.
    | www.falconite.com | flickr |
    Canon Equipments

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •