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Thread: Mollers who give excuses ...

  1. #21

    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    My that ONE came. Can't work today.

    Seriously, everyone deserved the benefit of doubt.

    2nd chance for everyone, I believe.
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Quote Originally Posted by simonfan View Post
    Just wondering, to all those photogs who engage in private shoots ....

    How often do you get models who initially promise a shoot of some kind, only to cancel or postpone with some reason, eg "I don't do bikini anymore, or I'm sick ...."

    Then you check the group shoots and there they are, doing bikini or shooting when they "not well" ...

    Just wondering if this is common ....

    This is extremely common especially when I am considered new to this Work Shop Organisation though I am not a photographer to do private shoots.

    1. Sick is the most common one I believed and the best part, she came telling you like early morning 3 to 4 am before the shoot starts in about 3 to 4 hours later whenever everyone is sleeping and not easy to find a good replacement at such early hours. There is no evidence to it at all.
    2. Last minute recall for work meetings on a Sat or Sun and seriously, I am not very such of such excuses if they are genuine or not. Maybe...
    3. Over slept is something maybe I can't accept when you know that you got a job to do the next day, try to sleep in clear rather than to club and drink till late night on Fri or Sat for Sat and Sun shoots.
    4. I do face a case of having a model rejecting me about 24 hours or slight more before and realised that she is in another organisor's shoot but oh well, competitive market I guessed.
    5. Recently, I have received last minute cancellations due to deaths of relatives and it all happened to be in Malaysia over the weekends. This is something sencetive so I will rather just forget it because if it turned out true then I will get myself back fired if I go deeper in questioning so I will just keep it in silence.

    I do want to make a note that there also a lot of models whom are great to work with and really enjoyed my time as a Organisor through these 3 months. Hope they will make it good in this industry be it talent, model or XMM.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Quote Originally Posted by alinkinyourlife View Post
    This is extremely common especially when I am considered new to this Work Shop Organisation though I am not a photographer to do private shoots.

    1. Sick is the most common one I believed and the best part, she came telling you like early morning 3 to 4 am before the shoot starts in about 3 to 4 hours later whenever everyone is sleeping and not easy to find a good replacement at such early hours. There is no evidence to it at all.
    2. Last minute recall for work meetings on a Sat or Sun and seriously, I am not very such of such excuses if they are genuine or not. Maybe...
    3. Over slept is something maybe I can't accept when you know that you got a job to do the next day, try to sleep in clear rather than to club and drink till late night on Fri or Sat for Sat and Sun shoots.
    4. I do face a case of having a model rejecting me about 24 hours or slight more before and realised that she is in another organisor's shoot but oh well, competitive market I guessed.
    5. Recently, I have received last minute cancellations due to deaths of relatives and it all happened to be in Malaysia over the weekends. This is something sencetive so I will rather just forget it because if it turned out true then I will get myself back fired if I go deeper in questioning so I will just keep it in silence.

    I do want to make a note that there also a lot of models whom are great to work with and really enjoyed my time as a Organisor through these 3 months. Hope they will make it good in this industry be it talent, model or XMM.

    I guess mine is similar to your pt 4.

    Thanks ... maybe some of the responsible organisers can come up with their list of Top Ten Models to work with !!

  4. #24
    Senior Member phoakm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Me quite lucky ....... minimum encounter on models who dun come or having excuses.
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  5. #25

    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Agreed, some shy at naming for all sorts of reasons. If you have the guts to put out the incident, name the person. If you dont name the person, it only shows you are not sure of yourself, or are afraid the person will come in and reveal some skeleton in your closet
    Hi Vince, maybe I see it at a different way. Having to reveal is good but again it might damage their reputation unnecessary if is not true. To name them inadvance is like attacking them without having to check the true details behind it base on our assumptions but seriously, will anyone of us seriously go investigate it or question it. Maybe some will but probably I won't bah but I know it is quite damaging as an Organisor if models kept saboing your shoot, I got to be answerable to the photographers. The feeling of sandwich is really not nice.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiao_shin View Post
    My that ONE came. Can't work today.

    Seriously, everyone deserved the benefit of doubt.

    2nd chance for everyone, I believe.
    In that, you are assuming that this is the first and only transgression. BIG ASSUMPTION.

    On another note, why are we so "forgiving" when the model is at fault.

    When a photographer (male) did something out of line, we generally demand a quart of blood and a pound of flesh.
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  7. #27
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    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    In that, you are assuming that this is the first and only transgression. BIG ASSUMPTION.

    On another note, why are we so "forgiving" when the model is at fault.

    When a photographer (male) did something out of line, we generally demand a quart of blood and a pound of flesh.

    Haha .. well said ...

    Guess it's not easy for all the "gentlemen" out there to find faults with XMMs ...

    To me, as a working adult, I tend towards the "you are responsible for what you say and do" viewpoint, since you are venturing into what is essentially a working environment ....

  8. #28

    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Quote Originally Posted by alinkinyourlife View Post
    Hi Vince, maybe I see it at a different way. Having to reveal is good but again it might damage their reputation unnecessary if is not true. To name them inadvance is like attacking them without having to check the true details behind it base on our assumptions but seriously, will anyone of us seriously go investigate it or question it. Maybe some will but probably I won't bah but I know it is quite damaging as an Organisor if models kept saboing your shoot, I got to be answerable to the photographers. The feeling of sandwich is really not nice.

    If the model flaked, she flaked, there is really no details need to be checked. If I name that model, then it is up to you to believe or not.

    If the model call the night before, I will usually just brush it off, forget about it, and jsut make a not never to work with her again. I am still waiting for that one credible good make sense reason that they all try to come up with. A few, and I have been working with them agian and again, simply apologise that they messed up for whatever reason, and cannot shoot, and apologise.

    If the model simply failed to show, and will only reply after repeated attempt to contact her, I have no problem naming them, what is there to be not sure about??
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Actually, why not we do a reverse psychology effect.

    We have a "hitlist" rather than a "blacklist".

    Models whom photogs have worked with before, feel free to state why this model is worth working with, exclude the pay rate they charge as that is a sensitive issue which should be privy between the photog and model.

    But the list is not fixed. The moment that the model pulls a stunt once too many times, the model will be off the list.

    This will be helpful for the organisers as well to discern which are the models they want to work with in the future. Organisers as well can add to the list.

    In this case, I feel that the "hitlist" will serve more purpose rather than a blacklist. If a blacklist comes in online, the backlash will be magnified as their ardent supporters will come out in full force to defend them, fangs baring and gloves off looking for a brawl. A "hitlist" will also serve as a form of encouragement for these models to perform better.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    If the model flaked, she flaked, there is really no details need to be checked. If I name that model, then it is up to you to believe or not.

    If the model call the night before, I will usually just brush it off, forget about it, and jsut make a not never to work with her again. I am still waiting for that one credible good make sense reason that they all try to come up with. A few, and I have been working with them agian and again, simply apologise that they messed up for whatever reason, and cannot shoot, and apologise.

    If the model simply failed to show, and will only reply after repeated attempt to contact her, I have no problem naming them, what is there to be not sure about??
    I got your point DP.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Quote Originally Posted by scandal599 View Post
    Actually, why not we do a reverse psychology effect.

    We have a "hitlist" rather than a "blacklist".

    Models whom photogs have worked with before, feel free to state why this model is worth working with, exclude the pay rate they charge as that is a sensitive issue which should be privy between the photog and model.

    But the list is not fixed. The moment that the model pulls a stunt once too many times, the model will be off the list.

    This will be helpful for the organisers as well to discern which are the models they want to work with in the future. Organisers as well can add to the list.

    In this case, I feel that the "hitlist" will serve more purpose rather than a blacklist. If a blacklist comes in online, the backlash will be magnified as their ardent supporters will come out in full force to defend them, fangs baring and gloves off looking for a brawl. A "hitlist" will also serve as a form of encouragement for these models to perform better.

    That's what I'm hoping to see .. a "good model list" as opposed to a "blacklist"

    Then again, only a selected few should be able to add to this list .. maybe the Sr Members or the Organisers ... no point if everyone can add .. the "protectors" will just add their "beloved" models and in the end, the list is USELESS

  12. #32
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    In this case, the TS said that he was "fly-ed aeroplane" and he knows for a fact that she appeared in another shoot. IF he names her, she can then have a chance to give her side of the story.

    If no naming is done, then no one will ever know. There is no damage to reputation if it is not true, simply because the model will have the opportunity to give her side of the story. If there is any doubt as to whether she knows about the thread, simply email her to tell her.

    In cases which are not so clear, then don't name them, since you dont know if its true or not. Anyway, I feel even if you name them, and keep it factual, there's no reputation damage either.

    The difference between:

    1. Model A pulled out of my shoot because of XYZ reason.

    is a factual statement.

    2. Model A pulled out of my shoot because of XYZ reason. Sure or not? I dont believe her. She must be a cheat, she is a conniving idiot who probably got a better deal elsewhere.

    Is a potentially defamatory statement, unless the remainder can be proved.

    As for sandwich, I've been there, done that. That is how the organisers earn their keep. A good organiser is able to balance expectations. A bad organiser is one only in it for the money and does not know how to balance expectations, resulting in disaster.

    Quote Originally Posted by alinkinyourlife View Post
    Hi Vince, maybe I see it at a different way. Having to reveal is good but again it might damage their reputation unnecessary if is not true. To name them inadvance is like attacking them without having to check the true details behind it base on our assumptions but seriously, will anyone of us seriously go investigate it or question it. Maybe some will but probably I won't bah but I know it is quite damaging as an Organisor if models kept saboing your shoot, I got to be answerable to the photographers. The feeling of sandwich is really not nice.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Quote Originally Posted by simonfan View Post
    That's what I'm hoping to see .. a "good model list" as opposed to a "blacklist"

    Then again, only a selected few should be able to add to this list .. maybe the Sr Members or the Organisers ... no point if everyone can add .. the "protectors" will just add their "beloved" models and in the end, the list is USELESS
    I generally list all the models I worked with on my MM profile page. Ok, the list is limited to models who are also on MM. Now, if a model whom I shot but is not on the list ... .
    Last edited by Deadpoet; 27th March 2009 at 01:24 PM.
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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Quote Originally Posted by simonfan View Post
    That's what I'm hoping to see .. a "good model list" as opposed to a "blacklist"

    Then again, only a selected few should be able to add to this list .. maybe the Sr Members or the Organisers ... no point if everyone can add .. the "protectors" will just add their "beloved" models and in the end, the list is USELESS

    Thought about that as well.

    Agreed that the SMs and the organisers should be the ones to add to the list. If anyone else adds to the list, let the name be vetted first. Submission of the name can be made. As to whether the name will be added on depends on the SMs and organisers discretion to do so. If the name is not added, questions can be asked, but no reason can be given dependent on the SMs and organisers to provide one as such.

  15. #35
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    There's too much administration and potential blowups to maintain any partiular list. Which is why you dont see any blacklist/whitelist for photographers, models, organisers, camera shops, etc.

    Just create a thread and put the story.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    As for sandwich, I've been there, done that. That is how the organisers earn their keep. A good organiser is able to balance expectations. A bad organiser is one only in it for the money and does not know how to balance expectations, resulting in disaster.

    Yap, that's experience gain and is helping in my job better.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    i like what they did in the fredmiranda forums before they had the swanky feedback system. it was really simple. just a nice long thread where you post positive/negative feedback.

    it was really convenient for me when i had to decide whether to pay US$2,000 for a camera to someone who's just a string of text on the screen, and not knowing whether i'll even see the camera 2 weeks later. that said, i spent almost US$10k on faceless individuals over the internet. it was a pleasant experience.

    anyways the mechanism was simple...there's a long thread, and you just create a new post, with seller, buyer nicks, item transacted, and general feedback.

    if you dont want to get negative feedback, dont do anything you dont want people to do to you. simple as that.

    however...it may not work here. i'm not sure if singaporeans on CS are mature enough for that. i'm looking forward to that day, though! prove me wrong, please!
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  18. #38

    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    I don't like the publically maintained list.

    On a slightly different note, I get a lot of inquiries for model references, but only from the US, never once here in Singapore. And what I heard from my models, they also get photographer references inquiries on me, but only from overseas models.

    Interesting.
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  19. #39
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Quote Originally Posted by simonfan View Post
    Just wondering, to all those photogs who engage in private shoots ....

    How often do you get models who initially promise a shoot of some kind, only to cancel or postpone with some reason, eg "I don't do bikini anymore, or I'm sick ...."

    Then you check the group shoots and there they are, doing bikini or shooting when they "not well" ...

    Just wondering if this is common ....
    I had one model rang up 2 hours before the photoshoot, she said she misplaced her false teeth and lost her walking stick.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Mollers who give excuses ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    I had one model rang up 2 hours before the photoshoot, she said she misplaced her false teeth and lost her walking stick.
    Dang, gotta be one hawt grandma...

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