Wait till he whack u first then u hit back.
dont do anything! run like crazy with ur equipment!!
call the police, and wait it out.
apologize profusely and keep showing him the camera photos while reasoning with him.
Stone down there. (like anyone's gonna do that!!)
photography makes one sees things from all angles.
Pre 911, most buildings and or installation, even the Jurong Island are less sensitive to foreign visitors. Situation changes after that, till today.
Where some buildings or offices or certain road located some countries embassy, council, vips or even tycoon those area and neighbourhood wiil be under constant surveilllance.
some sensitive roads are ( as I'd known ) tanglin road, nassim road, dalvey road, napier road.
Those buildings with companies belonging to the US, UK, Canada, Australia, Korea etc. are extremely sensitive. The security guards were being instructed to be on a lookout for any suspicious person or person acting suspiciously. so are all the cctv in the FCP.
Stay out of all these area, to avoid unnecessary trouble.
As for street shooting, try to behave calmly, act confidently ( of course age/size/appearance do count ).
When and if approached, do not show fear/guilt on your face and tone of voice Speak steadily and confidently, keep a smile on your face always * Make your present there long enough to lessen that person's awareness ot suspicion. You can feel it, whenever you lift your camera, that person will spy at you using the corner of his/her eye and you should also be alert, not to aim, but pretending to shoot someother stuff.
Of course cooking up some believable story, like doing a school project, an assignment, location scouting ( as some one had already pointed out ), a news coverage, a story etc.
When I use mediacorps, most people buy my story. See what works best for you.
In worst case scenario...it would be best, if you really got a photo of that person, if not a voice recording about both parties conversation will be useful as evident, when making a police report/statement.
Any tools, weapon or material that could cause hurt would be consider as an assault. ( bare knuckle and punches or karate chop not included, unless proven that the one using is a martial art expert.)
As a recent case, a manager was sentenced to 4 weeks jail for using a piece of 20cm long aluminium sheet to slap the face of another driver for overtaking his car.
* Keeping a smile was taught to me by a Jebsen and Jason's manager, when he did a 6 month back packing trekking from Thailand via Vietnam to China. ( He has got a Thai wife and so he speak Thai fluently.)
One night,while he was walking along a track in Vietnam, 2 Vietnamese soldiers approached him and shouted words that he couldn't answer. He just show his smile and some roadmaps and his Sin passport plus some simple vietnamese words and gesture. At one time they were pointing their AK47 at his head, as he relate to me, his eye still show the fright he had experienced, though he was already in Singapore.
So his motto to me, keep your smile, to defuse any tense situation.
My advice, do not run, by running, shows that you're at fault. Just walk calmly, but keeping an alert.
If in a busy place, try to attract as many people as possible, they are your eye witnesses.
Last edited by cabbySHE; 23rd March 2009 at 03:31 AM.
Proper permission and approval has to be obtained so to said. However, usually they would not intrude if they feels that its only candid posing etc. The discretion is in their hands. They always got the right to chase you out of their premises. So do understand your limits.
Not trespassing, but as long as you do not take anymore photos, or stop taking photos, as they are getting annoyed by your present. To continue, means you're at the losing end.
Shop owners pay rent, building management will side the shop owners, security guards are engaged by building management...so where do you stand, b'coz you're not a shoppers at that particular moment, in their eyes, you're a nuisance.
Looking like a tourist does help~
I think the chances of TS getting confronted is quite minute if he looked like a sterotype jap pg tourist at the pt of confrontation.
I was pointing out that a trespasser could be dealt with or retained by security if malicious intentions are suspected. I believe Cabbyshe ve pted out that security guards at buildings with foreign interests could use 'reasonable force' if malicious intentions are suspected.
Last edited by Fallenphoenix; 23rd March 2009 at 06:22 AM.
to be clear, i am talking about photography here in singapore only. maybe TS can clarify if he is asking about here in singapore or including oversea?
Last edited by denniskee; 23rd March 2009 at 07:48 PM.
photography makes one sees things from all angles.
Usually in Sin, shopping mall, commercial buildings, hotels, hospitals, especially those hi-end type, all the security guards had undergone some approved courses. Those that guard condo,warehouse and /or some factories are of a different category. They were instructed not to use force unless it is a criminal case e.g. theft, fight/brawl, arson, act of mischief, vandalism, causing disturbances to other members of public, harassment, outrage of modesty, etc.
As what I'd observed, some ( not all ) photographers are so engrossed in the pursue of the picture that they want and sometimes got carried away too far. Like standing on the refuse bin in order to get a higher angle/view. Lean precariously onto or extend the body out of a railing/escalator, especially during an ongoing event.One behaving like that is already a headache, how about with one group of, say 7 - 10 photographers invading the mall. It's definitely taboo to them.
In the eyes of the security, should any thing happened, who will be responsible ? Be in their shoes.
And with recent reported cases of pervert and or voyeur lurking around with hphone camera, can't really blame them for being sensitive, bcoz it's for the sake of the public.
With the understanding of all these issue, as a hobbyist photographer, one should not tread those grey area, and exercise some restrain/discipline.
Another area to be caution of are those renown notorious area/zone. e.g. geylang lor.4 to lor. 44 ( all the even lorong ). They are filled with pimps, gangsters, undergrd agt, bouncers, lookout, etc. your appearance there certainly is not welcomed.
It was reported that a movie production team was harassed by the thugs there during their filming session, eventually they had to approach one of their " thai-kor "(leader) to negotiate some terms in exchange for smooth filming session without disturbance.
Last edited by cabbySHE; 24th March 2009 at 02:56 AM.
I believe TS's thread is on 'how do u react if someone's wants to whack u even though u nvr take his photo'. We re on the internet. No specifications on country indicated. I guess it's pretty appropriate for any normal folk to interpret the issue is on confrontation and not confiding within Sg only.
Apologize and go for a soft resolution is always better.
Then again, based on OP experience of unreasonable ppl despite the best intentions to settle it in a civil manner. If I encounter such ppl, I will also 'Kih Hong'
not sure if u have this kind of experience, but i have lots of them.
like i said, those who were rude, i just tell them there is no copy right law against shooting strangers in public or private property (as in shopping mall and the likes of it) and that they have been very rude, even ang mohs can say nothing after that and 100% of the time, they soften their stand 100%.
very recent case i had was at orchard road together with dm and perterpan1975. but quite dangerous cause was begining to loose my temper after the stranger shouted at us and demanded us to show him the shots and delete them. even asked if we are singaporean. what the heck has our citizenship do with photo taking??? anyway, i kind of shouted back stating what mr wong kan seng said about the law, he immidiately soften, and said he initially had used the word "please".
dm physically demonstrated the way he said "please" was dam rude manner, and that he has been very rude. end up we heck care him and we just walk off with him still trying to talk nicely.
for those who approach me and asked nicely, normally i will show the shoots to them and ask for permission to use them.
for kids shoots, i always show it to them or their parents if their parent has yet to approach me.
another case was when i shot a group doing line dance, one org came to me and said i cant shoot cause there is a minister dancing in there. well, i was in bad mood that night. so shouted back who is that minister he is talking about, i want to speak to that minister personally. i wanted to clarify is what mr wong kan seng said in a national tv interview is bull ****? ended up other orgs came to me and appologise, which i refused to accept cause unless either the minister come speak to me or the 1st point of contact org appologise to me, i will not leave. no choice, they got the 1st point of contact org appologise to me.
Last edited by denniskee; 24th March 2009 at 01:31 PM.
photography makes one sees things from all angles.
I sympathise ur encounter with the in-line dancing incident. If the dance is not on a private property or u're not approached by the bodyguards, police or any other authorities, I think u've the rights to document the event with ur camera. With the recent assault on the MP and terrorism, I'm not surprised that the authorities are getting paranoid about possible reccee or research by malicious individuals or organisation.
No pt getting so worked up over a dance shoot, right? U can spend ur time on happier stuffs....say....shooting? =D
Well, unless you can point me to it, I guess we'll have to consider it as "unconfirmed" information.
You can check with the police if you want, but from my previous experiences, they are really bad in law. They will tell you something is a civil case when it is a criminal case. They will tell you that it is a civil case when what they mean is that you should take up a Magistrates' Complaint. Hence I won't put too much faith in their information regarding the law.
A security guard is, until you show contrary legal authorites, in my opinion, no different from a private citizen. Sure, you can try to detain the person and ask him for his particulars. If he refuses, then you can choose to forcefully detain him if you are damn **** sure that he is a terrorist, and even subdue him if you want.
But be forewarned, that if it turns out that you are wrong or that you had no basis, then you will, be the next one in line for a host of criminal and civil complaints, such as wrongful restraint, wrongful confinement, assault, criminal intimidation etc etc. You will not be able to say "I'm a security guard, I can do these"; because there are any specific defences or immunities given to security guards that I'm aware of (again feel free to point out specific legal authority when you are not tied up with other things).
This has nothing to do with NS, and hence, I'll not be dealing with that situation.
Finally, whether you as the challengee, wish to give your name or not, is up to you. I'm merely questioning your assertion that the security guard has a right to force you to give your particulars. I'm saying that he does not.
In fact, many security guards/posts ask you to surrender your IC before you can go in - this was a point of contention in the news some years ago, when it was pointed out that they don't have any legal right to retain your IC. That said, I can say that they can put it as a condition of entry rather than a demand to surrender, but it is clear therefore that if it is not a condition of entry, they otherwise have no legal basis to demand your IC or any other partiuclars.
Finally, you can't just gloss things over by saying "case to case". Laws are laws, there's no "case to case" where different laws apply for different cases.