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Thread: Different colour tone?

  1. #1
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    Default Different colour tone?

    Guys,when i view/edit my RAW pics on PS3 and view them again on Windows Photo Gallery,the colour tones r the same after i convert to jpeg.
    but y is it that when then i upload the pics to share in CS,the colour tones changed to a bit greenish.when i view the jpeg pics using again Windows Photo Gallery and Paint,i can see 2 diff colour tone on the same pic?!

    How do i set my PS3 so the colours look exactly the same in both PS3 and Paint/CS?

  2. #2
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    You view and edit your RAW/Jpgs on PS3 and review again on some Windows software? For what? Is your system and workflow profiled? That's a must to make sure that you see what's really digitally described in the picture file. Are all components adjusted to the same colour space (sRGB, forget the other ones).
    Secondly, not all applications are able to display images properly by checking the embedded colour profile. Firefox3 can be set accordingly. Not sure about IE, nothing that I use.
    If you want to compare then open the original file in PS3 and download the uploaded file again, then also open in CS3. Check this website for simple check for your browser and some nice explanations.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    You view and edit your RAW/Jpgs on PS3 and review again on some Windows software? For what? Is your system and workflow profiled? That's a must to make sure that you see what's really digitally described in the picture file. Are all components adjusted to the same colour space (sRGB, forget the other ones).
    Secondly, not all applications are able to display images properly by checking the embedded colour profile. Firefox3 can be set accordingly. Not sure about IE, nothing that I use.
    If you want to compare then open the original file in PS3 and download the uploaded file again, then also open in CS3. Check this website for simple check for your browser and some nice explanations.
    Thanks Octarine for sharing that website! I recently encountered a similar problem when uploading shots from a recent shoot cuz of the different colour profiles. Now I know where the problem lies

  4. #4

    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Sometimes monitor comes with its own nonsense profiles, which supposed to display 'better' colors. Ok for public but not ok for photographer you. You want blue to be blue, green to be green, not some frustrating shifts to some type of cyan.

    So when the monitor's own inhouse profile is set as default (common), it means it will display color its way, not the photographer way (sRGB).

    The problem arise when you edit in a color managed environment, like for example, photoshop, but when viewed in a unmanaged or wrongly managed environment, like for example; windows photo gallery relying on the monitor's own inhouse profile.... you then experience color shifts.

    So make sure your monitor profile is sRGB IEC61966-21. Edit this in windows setting control panel. This will solve the windows photo gallery issue. After that, we need to solve the 'upload to internet but color different' issue.

    The approach is the same. Make sure your web browser is profile managed and using sRGB IEC61966-21.

    For example, I am using Firefox3, so I download its Color Management addon and enabled it, setting it to sRGB IEC61966-21. Safari also good. Donno about IE.
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    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    You view and edit your RAW/Jpgs on PS3 and review again on some Windows software? For what? Is your system and workflow profiled? That's a must to make sure that you see what's really digitally described in the picture file. Are all components adjusted to the same colour space (sRGB, forget the other ones).
    Secondly, not all applications are able to display images properly by checking the embedded colour profile. Firefox3 can be set accordingly. Not sure about IE, nothing that I use.
    If you want to compare then open the original file in PS3 and download the uploaded file again, then also open in CS3. Check this website for simple check for your browser and some nice explanations.
    i'm using Firefox3 with color management enabled.
    I did the test u suggest.n i have 2 pics with diff skin tones.
    not sure if u can see but i upload the original jpeg file to 2 diff sites.

    A)


    B)


    the pic should look like A.
    Last edited by syc77; 6th November 2009 at 12:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    So make sure your monitor profile is sRGB IEC61966-21. Edit this in windows setting control panel. This will solve the windows photo gallery issue. After that, we need to solve the 'upload to internet but color different' issue.
    The approach is the same. Make sure your web browser is profile managed and using sRGB IEC61966-21.
    For example, I am using Firefox3, so I download its Color Management addon and enabled it, setting it to sRGB IEC61966-21. Safari also good. Donno about IE.
    monitor profile is sRGB IEC61966-21 = done
    web browser is profile managed and using sRGB IEC61966-21 = done.

    I was thinking..is it possible that the hosting site is giving me the diff colour tone as shown above?

  7. #7
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by syc77 View Post
    I was thinking..is it possible that the hosting site is giving me the diff colour tone as shown above?
    That's possible if they do any conversion at the servers which is unaware of colour spaces or strips off such information.
    But I had a look into both files and I noticed something. Using CS4 and opening both pictures side by side reveals the greenish colour cast immediately. Checking under File - File Info (Mac might be a different place) I can see: the smaller pic doesn't contain any EXIF data anymore, completely cleaned. The bigger pic is complete.
    The bigger picture in taken in colour space Adobe RGB 1998, the smaller pic doesn't contain any colour space information. I think that's the reason for the dull colours and the greenish cast. Please read the link I gave earlier about embedded ICC colour profiles in browsers. Without such information every application does more or less guess work how to display colours - the results are obvious. Even if the picture is in Adobe RGB the embedded profile tells the target application how to map colours so that the display is (nearly) correct.
    My suggestions:
    a) Use only colour space sRGB, also in your camera. If your monitor cannot display Adobe RGB no point using it.
    b) If you still like to use Adobe RGB for your workflow please convert the picture to sRGB before uploading.
    c) Always include the colour profile, even in sRGB.
    d) If your hosting site did the resizing (with the result of removing all important data) I suggest to workaround this by creating and uploading the smaller files on your own.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by syc77 View Post
    monitor profile is sRGB IEC61966-21 = done
    web browser is profile managed and using sRGB IEC61966-21 = done.

    I was thinking..is it possible that the hosting site is giving me the diff colour tone as shown above?
    Heard/read this complaint frequently on flickr groups, some believe flickr, and other online hosts, imageshack, etc, do something to their photos during upload.

    What Flickr and probably other photohosts does indeed is to ignore the photo's ICC profiles and assign them to be viewed as sRGB.

    The reason Flickr and other photo host does this is simple because sRGB is more standardised as most web browsers are not color managed and would more likely to display sRBG (if they did not use their own nonsense inhouse profiles). Also, most monitors display only sRGB color space.

    The problem occurs when users have their photo tagged and edited in profiles like Abode RGB(1998) or ProPhoto which has much larger color space than sRBG. But when Flickr or other online photohost strips the ICC profile from the uploaded pics, you lost those nicely edited colors which Abode RGB(1998) have, but sRBG don't have.

    I saved both of your photos to my desktop and I used Abode Bridge to read their metadata. Your big size photo is tagged with Abode RGB (1998) Your small photo is untagged (probaby your resizing program stripped its metadata).

    The solution is to convert your photos from Abode RGB (1998) to sRGB IEC61966-21 in photoshop or paintshop before upload. The conversion is better done by these professional programs than by Flickr. Yes, you will loose some colors, the results are going to be better at your end since you can control the conversion engine, intent, compensate, rather than let Flickr does it, which I suspect is simply just ignore the profile and assign sRGB.

    It also make lotsa difference in your workflow because you will have knowledge of consistency that all those outputed for the web will be sRBG, for archive will be Abode RBG, for print will be (whatever suits your printer).
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Did not noticed Octarine's post before I replied, but I hope you got your answers since our replies are consistent.

    Use a color managed workflow.

    You can still use Abode RGB for your master files, since some printers/services can render more colors than sRGB, but use sRBG for your web output.

    If your workflow and devices are properly profile, your web output will be consistent.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Octarine,sjackal

    Thanks for all the info guys.
    I guess i convert to sRGB when doing as a batch.
    Thanks.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    So make sure your monitor profile is sRGB IEC61966-21.
    please do not use sRGB as a monitor profile... it is a colourspace, not a monitor profile... it describes a range, or gamut, of colours... a monitor profile describes the computer input required to produce a certain colour response from the monitor... if one uses sRGB on one's monitor, the colour of an image might be adjusted to look fine and dandy on one's own monitor, but if the same image is viewed on another monitor, the colour produced would probably not be consistent with one's own monitor, and we are back to square one...

    some monitors have an option to emulate sRGB... but YMMV cause they are usually not individually calibrated...

  12. #12

    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK View Post
    please do not use sRGB as a monitor profile... it is a colourspace, not a monitor profile... it describes a range, or gamut, of colours... a monitor profile describes the computer input required to produce a certain colour response from the monitor... if one uses sRGB on one's monitor, the colour of an image might be adjusted to look fine and dandy on one's own monitor, but if the same image is viewed on another monitor, the colour produced would probably not be consistent with one's own monitor, and we are back to square one...

    some monitors have an option to emulate sRGB... but YMMV cause they are usually not individually calibrated...
    Indeed, its not really a permanent solution but its a work around. Ideally one should calibrate the monitor using a hardware calibrator and assign the calibrated profile. Generally speaking, you should not set your monitor profile to sRGB as monitor profiles should accurately describe the properties of your monitor, and sRGB won't do that.

    But the problem is that my monitor brand's inhouse profile does not display colors consistently. Setting my monitor to sRGB got me close, whereas using the originally provided monitor profile gave me even greater disparity.

    More reading from other forums which suggested the same fix:

    http://www.lightroomforums.net/showthread.php?t=1813

    http://www.pixmantec.com/forums/prin...28&type=thread

    http://support.bibblelabs.com/webboa...8fab2b8700d50a

    http://www.dl-c.com/discus/messages/...tml?1060856994
    Last edited by sjackal; 30th March 2009 at 02:55 PM.
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    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK View Post
    please do not use sRGB as a monitor profile... it is a colourspace, not a monitor profile... it describes a range, or gamut, of colours... a monitor profile describes the computer input required to produce a certain colour response from the monitor... if one uses sRGB on one's monitor, the colour of an image might be adjusted to look fine and dandy on one's own monitor, but if the same image is viewed on another monitor, the colour produced would probably not be consistent with one's own monitor, and we are back to square one...

    some monitors have an option to emulate sRGB... but YMMV cause they are usually not individually calibrated...
    It's a colour space and a profile, the new v4 ICC profile is now a standard. Most camera are adopting sRGB as a input profile, monitors should display it as a default.
    just1book, no kidding!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winsonapm View Post
    It's a colour space and a profile, the new v4 ICC profile is now a standard. Most camera are adopting sRGB as a input profile, monitors should display it as a default.
    Hi Winson,

    Most monitors use their own inhouse profiles, which trys to emulate sRGB (their way). Sometimes the profiles are not very good, and colors are wrong, so I revert back to sRGB IEC61966-21, until I calibrate my monitor.

    If you don't mind I will send you a PM later with some questions about colorspace and printers coz I want to know how to optimise for printing at your place.
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    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    Hi Winson,

    Most monitors use their own inhouse profiles, which trys to emulate sRGB (their way). Sometimes the profiles are not very good, and colors are wrong, so I revert back to sRGB IEC61966-21, until I calibrate my monitor.

    If you don't mind I will send you a PM later with some questions about colorspace and printers coz I want to know how to optimise for printing at your place.
    Oops, didn’t check this thread for a few days. Below is my controversy reply, but logical.

    On the contrary, most monitors used a standard profile. As to whether it’s good or not is another story. The qualities of various monitors are key differences, not the profile.
    For e.g. All the printers’ profiles are the same, it can be Euroscale, SWOP, Japan Color, etc. WHY? Theses are the best profiles to print, as to achieving perfection is another matter. A low-end printer will have the same profile as the high-end printer, not printing well is a cost or limitation issue. Constantly creating a new profile is very misleading, it should be compensating for differences for different media/paper. These are costs and logic arguments.

    To print well, just ensure your images and file are color consistent, we’ll do justice to your file by been consistent with daily calibration and check for consistency. To softproof, apply Japan Colour on a calibrated and profiled monitor to view.

    Didn’t get your PM or hear from you. Pls visit us to catch up, we’re also providing color prints and framing services for your requirements.
    just1book, no kidding!

  16. #16

    Default Re: Different colour tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winsonapm View Post
    Oops, didn’t check this thread for a few days. Below is my controversy reply, but logical.

    On the contrary, most monitors used a standard profile. As to whether it’s good or not is another story. The qualities of various monitors are key differences, not the profile.
    For e.g. All the printers’ profiles are the same, it can be Euroscale, SWOP, Japan Color, etc. WHY? Theses are the best profiles to print, as to achieving perfection is another matter. A low-end printer will have the same profile as the high-end printer, not printing well is a cost or limitation issue. Constantly creating a new profile is very misleading, it should be compensating for differences for different media/paper. These are costs and logic arguments.

    To print well, just ensure your images and file are color consistent, we’ll do justice to your file by been consistent with daily calibration and check for consistency. To softproof, apply Japan Colour on a calibrated and profiled monitor to view.

    Didn’t get your PM or hear from you. Pls visit us to catch up, we’re also providing color prints and framing services for your requirements.
    Thanx Winson, really appreciate!
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