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Thread: Level of frendliness to newbie questions

  1. #1
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    Default Level of frendliness to newbie questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Garion
    Taken from http://www.usa.canon.com/eflenses/li...ard/index.html...

    "Uses ring-type USM for swift, silent autofocus and full-time manual focus."

    Matrix: Pardon me for wondering, but why ask such questions when the answers can easily be found thru a little searching on the net? Have you ever heard of such a thing as Google and Yahoo?
    abit lazy to seach...so many wordszzzzzzz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matrix
    abit lazy to seach...so many wordszzzzzzz
    Wow. I didn't know typing a few words on the keyboard can be so exhausting for you. Where did you find the energy to carry your 10D + lenses then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garion
    Wow. I didn't know typing a few words on the keyboard can be so exhausting for you. Where did you find the energy to carry your 10D + lenses then?

    Aiya...So other can straight away see from this thread mah. What so big deal about it? relax lah.

  4. #4

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    Pasting useful infos here for everyone to read is definitely a plus, it should be strongly encouraged.

    However, to keep this place resourceful and useful, which in turn, benefits everyone, that greatly requires everyone's effort,. Note, when I quote useful, I'm basically refering to how it can helps one in achieving some additional knowledge, in terms of understanding something, by reading or by seeing. And NOT exploiting it by expecting, or demanding answers, solutions, spoonfeeding, to your doubts, when you know clearly that you can get them easily just by typing a few search commands. Being lazy is definitely not an excuse to get others to work for you. Telling whoever doing a good deed and replied your questions, that you don't intend to find the answer cos you are lazy sounds totally ridiculous.

    How about doing what Garion mentioned, search the web more often, and post interesting articles in the forum for others to read. That benefits not only everyone, but yourself as well.

    Spoonfeeding...
    Last edited by Stylus C34; 16th October 2003 at 12:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stylus C34
    Pasting useful infos here for everyone to read is definitely a plus, it should be strongly encouraged.

    However, to keep this place resourceful and useful, which in turn, benefits everyone, that greatly requires everyone's effort,. Note, when I quote useful, I'm basically refering to how it can helps one in achieving some additional knowledge, in terms of understanding something, by reading or by seeing. And NOT exploiting it by expecting, or demanding answers, solutions, spoonfeeding, to your doubts, when you know clearly that you can get them easily just by typing a few search commands. Being lazy is definitely not an excuse to get others to work for you. Telling whoever doing a good deed and replied your questions, that you don't intend to find the answer cos you are lazy sounds totally ridiculous.

    How about doing what Garion mentioned, search the web more often, and post interesting articles in the forum for others to read. That benefits not only everyone, but yourself as well.

    Spoonfeeding...
    hi,

    personally i am not asking to be spoonfed.. doubt anybody who post a query here is asking for that too...

    we just need some doubts cleared...

    my point is that if anyone don't want to help other members out, then just don't do so...

    there is no need to tell people off and say why dun we read etc etc....

    if we post the question here, we have our reasonss why we do so...

    lately, i have noticed a lot of rather hostile and unfriendly post that are directed at newbies and supposely dumb questions... this is not nice...

    i have been a member in this forum almost since it was first founded...

    and i have met a few ex member who left because they found this place getting swamped with such unfriendliness and unhelpfulness... any one who leave also took with them their offer to share their knowledge and it's a lost for this club

    the issue is this, going forward is this club forum only going to be aimed at pros or expert, then if so, probably 90% of the members should then leave...

    maybe one of the founding members here could let us know if this is the ultimate objective of this club... to serve only the knowledgable and experts....

    frankly, i dun think these are the intentions of the original founding members of this club...

    personally, i think this club was found to gather a community of similarily minded individuals shareing a common passion for photography whehter as a pro, expert, or newbie... to share knowledge and information cum nice pictures and how to achieve them ...

    so having said so, pls do keep that in mind before posting any other mean and unnecessary hostility here.. thank you.

  6. #6

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    Michael,

    now that I read this thread (after I posted in your other thread), I see what you mean.

    I think in this instance you may a bit sensitive. I don't think they are directed at you, just newbies in general.

    To be fair, a lot of newbies do find it easier to ask questions here. But this ease has turned slightly into laziness. A lot, I mean, A LOT, of questions can be easily answered when the new users look at the manuals (baring those directly translated ones from Japanese). On the WWW, there are indeed more than teragigs of information both useful (and not maybe available in those manuals), especially so for photo.

    take a step back and enjoy your new lens. cheers

    PS: I can probably guess a couple of questions new 28-135 IS owners can ask, just because they have been asked so many times before; like "why is there a low whirl noise when I press the shutter button? How come my view finder shakes when I put it to my eyes, I thought IS is supposed to take care of the shakes not cause them? How long can IS last before they fail? Is this lens sharper then 28-105USM?" more........

  7. #7

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    HI Michael,

    I second your post, this forum should be of a friendly nature. In any case, does anyone NOT AGREE THAT it's always better to learm from Other People's Experience? I have not mastered my 10D due to time contraints myself and sometimes PM fellow 10D/equipment owners for advice. So far I would say all have been helpful. I am sure none of us expect a sit down tutorial session with hands on, just a simple post/reply/discussion will do.

    Those that think newbies are wasting your time, then just don't reply, why do you even bother in the first place???

    Just my 2 cents worth.

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    Thing is, ironically, Canon lenses aren't really full time manual focus. They are part time though. Yes, I know they invented the idea and were first to it, but they don't do it as well as another manufacturer out there. It is a measure of how many people actually use it that no one seems to realise that Canon don't actually have FTM, only PTM.

  9. #9

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    My Canon lenses must be from another planet. They don't have FTM nor PTM. They're all full time autofocus (FTAF). Sometimes they get Periodic Malfunctioning Syndrome (PMS).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caspere
    Michael,

    now that I read this thread (after I posted in your other thread), I see what you mean.

    I think in this instance you may a bit sensitive. I don't think they are directed at you, just newbies in general.

    To be fair, a lot of newbies do find it easier to ask questions here. But this ease has turned slightly into laziness. A lot, I mean, A LOT, of questions can be easily answered when the new users look at the manuals (baring those directly translated ones from Japanese). On the WWW, there are indeed more than teragigs of information both useful (and not maybe available in those manuals), especially so for photo.

    take a step back and enjoy your new lens. cheers

    PS: I can probably guess a couple of questions new 28-135 IS owners can ask, just because they have been asked so many times before; like "why is there a low whirl noise when I press the shutter button? How come my view finder shakes when I put it to my eyes, I thought IS is supposed to take care of the shakes not cause them? How long can IS last before they fail? Is this lens sharper then 28-105USM?" more........

    hi,

    thanks for your reply in both my posts.

    no.. i am not mad or anything much less sensitive about it...

    i am just worried about the emerging trend that i have noticed where the tone and language used in some of the replies have been getting rather harse and sarcastic...

    i am for the idea that people should search for answers on their own whereever possible and resort only to asking if necessary...

    but what i am against is that instead of directing this people to using the search engine etc.. , replies implied "hey stupid .. why don't u just find out yourselve".. while i do agree that YES, one should do the search... what i don't agree is why bother to answer with such a reply in the first place...

    if one does not agree to the question being asked.. maybe one should just ignore rather than post such a harse reply and demoralise the newbie etc...

    it's my thots all along that this forum serves as a common ground to share a common passion... and not as a battling ground to exchange strongs words or feelings especailly one pertaining to human's behaviour or nature.. eg if there are strongly worded fights over which pix is nicer or which camera produces the best pix etc.. i can understand...

    but not like "why must u go around asking and asking the same old question .... it's here.. go look for it.. and stop wasting my time" kind of post..

    my point is why bother to post this kind of reply at all... what does it achieve?

    certainly it doesn't promote the basic objective of this forum...


    to me, it only serves to say that " well... go away... u aren't welcome here"...

    that's just my point of view anyway....

    having said this lot, I shall now keep my peace and will NO LONGER reply to this particular post on the attitudes of certain CSers...

    but pls continue to enlighten me on my original post on the topic thread... Many thanks

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    i know i seldom post here but my growth in photography has been nurtured within the folds of various photo forums on the net.

    so i can understand how newbies feel when they first start out.

    i remember asking alot of questions when i first started surfing the net and was introduced to photoasia.com

    these questions were little different from the questions asked today by those new to the hobby

    my sincere excuse was (not anymore) was that i didnt know where else to go to then and i wanted 'local' help rather than rely on the replies of an ang moh in sweden or argentina.

    this simple help also gave me the op to email them privately to learn more and most importantly, gave me a REAL op to actually meet up with them and talk about the hobby face to face. that helped tremendously. to me asking newbie questions helped break the ice.

    knowledge and information is out there, but apart from sites like photo.net and dpreview, most of this information is scattered over a large area where finding out replies and opinions to specific questions can be difficult.

    of course this is not helped by folks (me guilty) re-phrasing basically identical/rethorical questions and assuming that they are entirely different and original questions.

    but for those who've benefitted here and in Offstone, why dont we look at these repetitive questions as opportunities....opportunities to return something back to the forum community by helping with information or opinions that YOU think is so automatic, so sianz, so rudimentary and 'second nature' (which to a newcomer is as new and eye-opening as his first day on another planet)?

    see those old geezers hanging out at Ron's or outside Cam-X coffee shop giving younger ones the 'you young punks know nothing' gaze/sneer? they'll be gone one day and are you going to take their places and give new guys that same attitude too?

  13. #13
    andylee
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    {ClubSNAP--->photography community} community to me means we try to get along with each others.actually some people is sensitive, some people is out-spoken. Just don't get too sensitive lah. there will always be someone who will provide you the ans to your qns if they know it.
    Last edited by andylee; 18th October 2003 at 12:45 AM.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Ang
    hi,

    personally i am not asking to be spoonfed.. doubt anybody who post a query here is asking for that too...

    we just need some doubts cleared...

    my point is that if anyone don't want to help other members out, then just don't do so...

    there is no need to tell people off and say why dun we read etc etc....

    if we post the question here, we have our reasonss why we do so...

    lately, i have noticed a lot of rather hostile and unfriendly post that are directed at newbies and supposely dumb questions... this is not nice...

    i have been a member in this forum almost since it was first founded...

    and i have met a few ex member who left because they found this place getting swamped with such unfriendliness and unhelpfulness... any one who leave also took with them their offer to share their knowledge and it's a lost for this club

    the issue is this, going forward is this club forum only going to be aimed at pros or expert, then if so, probably 90% of the members should then leave...

    maybe one of the founding members here could let us know if this is the ultimate objective of this club... to serve only the knowledgable and experts....

    frankly, i dun think these are the intentions of the original founding members of this club...

    personally, i think this club was found to gather a community of similarily minded individuals shareing a common passion for photography whehter as a pro, expert, or newbie... to share knowledge and information cum nice pictures and how to achieve them ...

    so having said so, pls do keep that in mind before posting any other mean and unnecessary hostility here.. thank you.
    three cheers to you!!!!cant agreed with you more than this...
    i'm a newbie too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Ang
    hi,

    personally i am not asking to be spoonfed.. doubt anybody who post a query here is asking for that too... we just need some doubts cleared...

    *snip*

    so having said so, pls do keep that in mind before posting any other mean and unnecessary hostility here.. thank you.
    Now, i do understand where you are coming from and i too joined this forum not too long after it's conception. Alot of us here have this is place grow and alot of us have come to embrace this community as our own...

    You see people come in and post... and yes, of course it would be easy to just ignore questions or post you don't want to answer but then again, if you don't reply, there will be people who will start posting in other forums (photographic or otherwise) about how unfriendly or unhelpful the members are. But if we do reply, and subsequently have a culture of spoonfeeding that becomes entrenched, then what? Look at this post below:


    Quote Originally Posted by Matrix
    abit lazy to seach...so many wordszzzzzzz
    It basically demostrates the kind of mentality people have. Too lazy. Well, fair enough but in that case, if these people are willing to come right out and tell everyone about their attitude towards even a hobby they are supposed to be interested in, but are too lazy to go read up or even search from a available resource, then what is stopping someone else from taking post shots at him/her? If you want to project you have that certain amount of maturity and then have someone treat you accordingly to that level, then why whine about it?

    Fair game and free speech i say. You can mention that people have their reasons for posting and asking. Once again, yes, i do agree but on the flip side, there are always reasons that people would fire off a volley or two at these people as well.

    And if you delve further, you will realise that there are a few members who often ask questions and "expect" to be answered. If thats the kind of attitude they have, there will be others with similar attitudes who would want to tell them off.

    In fact, if i may be as blunt, if you can come out and mention that people can ignore the questions they don't like, you can also similarly ignore the "nasty" posts you come across. But you chose to speak up for the good of the community and i do applaud that. You decided to take a stand towards these nasty, aggresive members who posts such threads... but then again, you will have others who look at this thread in a different way. Who is to say whats right and wrong?

    The population here is generally have a very amicable if not friendly attitude towards newbies. Even if it's a silly question, more often than not, there will always be someone who will step up and answer it. (EG. How do i post pictures on this forum. And you still see people faithfully directing the confused newbie to a set of detailed instructions)

    It's always easy to have one person come right out and say, "no one helps me", or "this place is unfriendly" but the person must also reflect and see if he or she is at fault in the first place or not. And more often than not, if anyone is nasty, the mods to step right in to manage the situation, to the best of their abilities.

    This forum has always been very receptive to newbies and it wouldn't be fair to say that people here only cater to newbies. Just look around you. The tutorials, the write ups, the questions about workflow (which get replied) or things related to photography that are worthy of mention are all posted by different members.

    There is a flip side to every coin. And they is always a different perspective. As i mentioned earlier, i do understand where you are coming from and this post isn't meant to be nasty or sarcastic in anyway.

    Take this as food for thought if you will...
    --
    "High Wired, Dream Sired"

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    Well said, Wolfgang.

    The trouble with some newbies nowadays is just that - laziness. Oftentimes, a new question posted is already answered as recently as a couple of days ago, and it just takes a bit of effort to search for it.

    This has been the general unwritten rule in all the forums around the internet, in Usenet newsgroups, and in BBS conferences (before the Internet became widespread). In "good old days", posting a question that has been answered before results in very unfriendly flame posts from other posters. And from what I see nowadays, the "can't you do a search first?"-type replies are a lot milder compared to 10's of people flaming you for posting a question, so count yourselves lucky!

    While a number of people here will still reply to repeated questions, one must admit that it can get irritating. It elicits the "Not again...." kind of feeling in readers. So newbies, put in a little effort on your side. Do a bit of reading/searching before posting that question. It helps everyone, including yourself. While doing that, you might even come across snippets other information useful to you. It's a win-win situation.

    Have fun!

    Regards
    CK

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