Nikon Flash system

[double_a]

I have a SB800, SB400 and D300 body. I am thinking of getting addition 2 SB600 to setup a mini studio at home (10x10 feets).

Q1: With this setup, can I mount the SB400 (using SB400 to avoid using the camera flash) on my camera and control the SB800 and SB600 flash seperately since D300 has the flash commander mode?

Q2: What can the SB800 do more than what the D300 built-in commander mode can? Are they functioning in the same way?

Would appreciate if you have better setup to recommend for a mini studio at home. Thanks

[catchlights]

Originally Posted by double_a I have a SB800, SB400 and D300 body. I am thinking of getting addition 2 SB600 to setup a mini studio at home (10x10 feets). Q1: With this setup, can I mount the SB400 (using SB400 to avoid using the camera flash) on my camera and control the SB800 and SB600 flash seperately since D300 has the flash commander mode? Q2: What can the SB800 do more than what the D300 built-in commander mode can? Are they functioning in the same way? Would appreciate if you have better setup to recommend for a mini studio at home. Thanks

Ans: #1, No, read your D300 manual page 291 paragraph SB400.
Ans: #2, Yes, using SB800 as commander have more functions, read SB800 manual page 67, using D300 built-in commander mode, you only have the "commander mode".

[geraldkhoo]

Originally Posted by double_a I have a SB800, SB400 and D300 body. I am thinking of getting addition 2 SB600 to setup a mini studio at home (10x10 feets). Q1: With this setup, can I mount the SB400 (using SB400 to avoid using the camera flash) on my camera and control the SB800 and SB600 flash seperately since D300 has the flash commander mode? Q2: What can the SB800 do more than what the D300 built-in commander mode can? Are they functioning in the same way? Would appreciate if you have better setup to recommend for a mini studio at home. Thanks

A1: You cannot mount the SB400 to control your remote flashes using CLS because the SB400 does not have a commander mode. The remote flashes are controlled using the pre-flashes, which give the remote flashes instructions what to do.

A2: When you use the SB800 as the commander, you have an additional group (group C) that the D300 does not have.

Nikon CLS is a great way to start, but has some limitations. For CLS to work, you need a line of sight to the commander which sends out the pre-flash. In indoor environments, it is normally not a problem, but when you go outdoors, the remote flashes may not be able to pick up the pre-flashes properly. Also, the pre-flash shows up in your pictures... so what you can do is to work that as one of the lights in your shots, or find a way to block it forward, but the remotes flashes still are able to get the pre-flashes.

Most of the time, studios would use some form of radio frequency trigger that does not need direct line of sight. You can get cheap ones... or go to the more reliable and expensive ones like Pocket Wizards, Skyports, etc. Using such radio triggers means also that you have to use Manual (M) mode on the remote flashes.

Recently, there is one called Radio Poppers which can control iTTL on remote flashes.

It is up to you to explore and see what you would like to use

[double_a]

Originally Posted by geraldkhoo Nikon CLS is a great way to start, but has some limitations. For CLS to work, you need a line of sight to the commander which sends out the pre-flash. In indoor environments, it is normally not a problem, but when you go outdoors, the remote flashes may not be able to pick up the pre-flashes properly. Also, the pre-flash shows up in your pictures... so what you can do is to work that as one of the lights in your shots, or find a way to block it forward, but the remotes flashes still are able to get the pre-flashes.

Thanks for the information. But not quite understand this part (blue text) Can you explain how can this happened? Is it only happen at outdoor?

[ZerocoolAstra]

Originally Posted by double_a Thanks for the information. But not quite understand this part (blue text) Can you explain how can this happened? Is it only happen at outdoor?

Actually to correct that point, I have tried using my D80's built-in flash as a commander for my SB600 (wireless).
In the D80's menu, I can set the pop-up to '--' or 'TTL' or 'M'
If I select '--', the D80 fires in order to trigger the SB600, but because the flash occurs a split second earlier, it contributes no light whatsoever to the scene. The only light source is the SB600. I have tried and proven this. 100% correct.

I believe the D300 should be the same (?), since it is a newer model.

[geraldkhoo]

Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra Actually to correct that point, I have tried using my D80's built-in flash as a commander for my SB600 (wireless). In the D80's menu, I can set the pop-up to '--' or 'TTL' or 'M' If I select '--', the D80 fires in order to trigger the SB600, but because the flash occurs a split second earlier, it contributes no light whatsoever to the scene. The only light source is the SB600. I have tried and proven this. 100% correct. I believe the D300 should be the same (?), since it is a newer model.

It actually depends on how hard you scrutinize the picture. I've set the pop-up flash to '--' but it is still captuered in the picture (eventhough the manual says otherwise). I was taking a reflective object, so from the picture, there was 2 sources of light, 1 from the pre-flash, and the other from the remote flash. Just try to take your image infront of a mirror and you will see what I mean.

It is for this reason that Nikon actually produced the SG-3IR to deal with the pre-flash showing up in the picture. Have a read at the following link:

http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00ORLd

[nixontkl]

i will back geraldkhoo regarding the pre flash showing up in your picture

i tried using the commander in my d80 and no flash on the pop up and no flash to sync with so in theory the same picture without flash and the one with pre flash should be the same but its not! the pre flash is slightly lit, all object will reflect light and some just reflect better and retain the light a little longer than other object and thus will show up in your picture with a little flash like that

but this scenario will happen if u are in a confine space, i believe if the room is big enough and u got nothing near to your pre flash source it should happen as in theory that the pre flash will not be captured

moi 2 cent

[ZerocoolAstra]

Originally Posted by geraldkhoo It actually depends on how hard you scrutinize the picture. I've set the pop-up flash to '--' but it is still captuered in the picture (eventhough the manual says otherwise). I was taking a reflective object, so from the picture, there was 2 sources of light, 1 from the pre-flash, and the other from the remote flash. Just try to take your image infront of a mirror and you will see what I mean. It is for this reason that Nikon actually produced the SG-3IR to deal with the pre-flash showing up in the picture. Have a read at the following link: http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00ORLd

Ahhh, ok. I see what you mean.
In my experiment, I covered up my SB600 totally, and took a photo of my bedroom with my D80's flash set to '--'. It was DARK. I'll try in front of a mirror to see how. Logically it doesn't make sense though. Reflective objects simply bounce the light back. They don't "store" the light energy somehow. And since light travels at about 200,000km/second, I can't figure out how the extra distance covered can cause the light to be delayed enough to be captured.
Anyway, I will try it for myself.

[zac08]

The preflash will show for close-ups and very dark senarios..

[double_a]

I did a test on my built-in flash and the SB-800, I understand your point now. I didn't realise this as a potential problem because I never need to avoid lights coming from the front. Anyway, I did another test by blocking the SB-800 behind a chair and pasted 2 layers of masking tape on the built-in flash. The SB-800 is still able to pick up the pre-flash but the camera did not captured the pre-flash even though in a very dark environment.

[ZerocoolAstra]

Originally Posted by double_a I did a test on my built-in flash and the SB-800, I understand your point now. I didn't realise this as a potential problem because I never need to avoid lights coming from the front. Anyway, I did another test by blocking the SB-800 behind a chair and pasted 2 layers of masking tape on the built-in flash. The SB-800 is still able to pick up the pre-flash but the camera did not captured the pre-flash even though in a very dark environment.

yeah exactly. That was pretty much the experiment I tried with my SB600. I still have not tried it out in front of a mirror. But I would think that the extra few metres (even up to 20m, for example) that the light travels as it bounces around the room from a reflective surface would add an infinitesimal time delay. Hence the light should still not affect the exposure.

[kkcharles82]

Originally Posted by geraldkhoo A1: ... Also, the pre-flash shows up in your pictures... so what you can do is to work that as one of the lights in your shots, or find a way to block it forward, but the remotes flashes still are able to get the pre-flashes...

I fully concur with that finding. I had a very hard time trying to redirect the light from the final synchro flash while using CLS for the first time. I think i will have to go get either the properly done IR pass filter or go make an IR pass filter myself.

[catchlights]

Nikon has a solution for this, Nikon SG-31R Replacement IR Panel.