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Thread: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

  1. #41
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    DP is a perfectionist and I tend to agree with him.Photoshoot organizers should have their
    own sets of pictures of the models to entice signups and not depend on the models' own
    portfolio taken by other photogs, bearing in mind it might incur copyrights infringement.

    They the organizers should spend some investment to engage photogs to build up
    an organizers' portfolio of their models after all it's all about business.
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  2. #42
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Cannot help but notice, the pictures posted by many photoshoot organizers are meaningfully worst then the worst posted on the portrait forum.

    A handful of the organizers do post decent to great images to advertise their shoots, but as for the majority, the pictures are absolutely unacceptable.

    The organizers what our money, and yet, they do not even bother to do some homework to entice us. There are just way too many grainy, distorted, contorted, totally CMI pictures used to advertise these photoshoot.

    I found this absolutely insulting. What are they thinking, that all photographers here in CS is blind?? Or, as long as there are some Ta and A, photographers will blindly sign up?? Or what?
    so, what do you think the CS moderators should do ? close the thread ? terminate the member ?

  3. #43
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    IF......IF I would go for a photoshoot, and I have to PAY for it, of course I will be PICKY.

    but most of the time I'm not very picky about my subjects, since I'm being paid to shoot.


    That is the thing. Every discerning photographer who is worth his salt will be very particular about who he shoots, where he shoots and what he shoots as his reputation depends on it. Since as a paying client you have every right to demand a certain level of standards from the subject if the subject is human, or even as a still life photographer, from the person who engaged you to conduct the shoot, you have a right to command a certain level and standard from your subjects. I am pretty sure that even Herb Ritts and Anne Lebowitz also rejects subjects which either a) they are not comfortable shooting or b) they feel they cannot connect with the subject because sometimes a look is all it needs.

    As on CS, organisers themselves do not actually cater to different levels of photographers. The very well established ones like William Chua can well attend any of these shoots that the organisers organise or like Zeckson Chow who will bring his models over for a shoot and at the same time impart some knowledge to the people shooting. The point here is very basic: the photos that organisers choose to use to advertise their services for photoshoots has gotta be of a certain level that the organisers themselves feel it is acceptable first. If the organisers just use the pics that was given to them to just push for numbers then we are essentially just feeding the masses with half-baked photos of models even if the model is very good looking. If the organiser is a photographer himself or herself, then why not the organiser takes a couple of pictures of her instead and post. Even with light make up is fine. But at least a decent picture.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    Quote Originally Posted by scandal599 View Post


    That is the thing. Every discerning photographer who is worth his salt will be very particular about who he shoots, where he shoots and what he shoots as his reputation depends on it. Since as a paying client you have every right to demand a certain level of standards from the subject if the subject is human, or even as a still life photographer, from the person who engaged you to conduct the shoot, you have a right to command a certain level and standard from your subjects. I am pretty sure that even Herb Ritts and Anne Lebowitz also rejects subjects which either a) they are not comfortable shooting or b) they feel they cannot connect with the subject because sometimes a look is all it needs.

    As on CS, organisers themselves do not actually cater to different levels of photographers. The very well established ones like William Chua can well attend any of these shoots that the organisers organise or like Zeckson Chow who will bring his models over for a shoot and at the same time impart some knowledge to the people shooting. The point here is very basic: the photos that organisers choose to use to advertise their services for photoshoots has gotta be of a certain level that the organisers themselves feel it is acceptable first. If the organisers just use the pics that was given to them to just push for numbers then we are essentially just feeding the masses with half-baked photos of models even if the model is very good looking. If the organiser is a photographer himself or herself, then why not the organiser takes a couple of pictures of her instead and post. Even with light make up is fine. But at least a decent picture.
    I do not understand what you trying to say regarding my post to DP.

    My post is simple, such shoots (with Photos which DP label CMI) are not cater to DP, DP will not pick such shoots too, Since DP is not a customer, so shouldn't feel insulted.


    btw, how people doing business is other people "business". none of my "business"

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    actually I find there is noting wrong with that..

    for sure these shoots are not cater to people are so pro like you.

    and since you are not joining the photo shoot, so you can't really say that is an insult.
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  5. #45

    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    btw, how people doing business is other people "business". none of my "business"
    in Hokkien, the organizers would be shouting .... if it is none of your business, why "kow peh kow bu" ...
    always the Light, .... always.

  6. #46

    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    The rate for model shoot here is so low. From $30 onwards.

    Don't expect too much.

    There is model that charged up to $500 per hours. Those you expect to see good portfolio.
    Please Don't Report This Post To A Moderator

  7. #47

    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    I do not understand what you trying to say regarding my post to DP.

    My post is simple, such shoots (with Photos which DP label CMI) are not cater to DP, DP will not pick such shoots too, Since DP is not a customer, so shouldn't feel insulted.

    btw, how people doing business is other people "business". none of my "business"
    Of course, these organized photoshoots are not targeted at me. I don't join, but I still feel insulted as part of the community.

    However, as I have said in my thread title, I said, "... insulting to photographers ...", and by photographers I meant this community.


    and to my dear Harry ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Potter View Post
    Photographers sell photography service, so photography and photos must be damned good.

    Photoshoot organisers provide models, so photography not their main priority.
    If you are selling a product, will you try to make the product look good in the advertising materials, so that people will want to buy?
    deadpoet
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  8. #48
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    in Hokkien, the organizers would be shouting .... if it is none of your business, why "kow peh kow bu" ...
    I'm not the one KPKB leh!!
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  9. #49
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Of course, these organized photoshoots are not targeted at me. I don't join, but I still feel insulted as part of the community.

    However, as I have said in my thread title, I said, "... insulting to photographers ...", and by photographers I meant this community.


    .............................
    well, if every photo shoots organizers are showing those CMI photos, clearly is treating all photographers are "Robert" or "Teo Chee Hong".

    But it is only some, we just treat them as like there are targeting a very "unique" group of photographers lor, don't need to make a big fuss mah......
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  10. #50
    vince123123
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    The main reason is that many of the models offered are doing their virgin shoots and/or never had any test shoots done, and hence have a non-existent portfolio.

    Hence, they only got grainy, CMI handphone pics to sell themselves with

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Cannot help but notice, the pictures posted by many photoshoot organizers are meaningfully worst then the worst posted on the portrait forum.

    A handful of the organizers do post decent to great images to advertise their shoots, but as for the majority, the pictures are absolutely unacceptable.

    The organizers what our money, and yet, they do not even bother to do some homework to entice us. There are just way too many grainy, distorted, contorted, totally CMI pictures used to advertise these photoshoot.

    I found this absolutely insulting. What are they thinking, that all photographers here in CS is blind?? Or, as long as there are some Ta and A, photographers will blindly sign up?? Or what?

  11. #51
    vince123123
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    I'll say that it is on the wrong footing if they hope to get paid and hope to get a portfolio at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Thai Bean View Post
    Unfortunately almost 80% of these "model" do not have anything better than these "grainy, distorted, contorted, totally CMI pictures" ... Maybe this is the reason they are willing to do these budget shoot ... hoping to build a portfolio by getting photos from the people who attend.

    Actually besides these CMI photos ... shoot organisers should try to put up more recent and updated photos of the models in question ... I have been to a few surprises ...

  12. #52

    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    The main reason is that many of the models offered are doing their virgin shoots and/or never had any test shoots done, and hence have a non-existent portfolio.
    actually this is the only point that I am disappointed .... so many newbie xmm with zero experience and yet the organizers cheong to organize for them .... probably due to lack of new faces and too many wannabe organizers here (probably easy money)

    In many instances, TFCD was arrange and agree but due to busy work schedule, the shoot was delay for a few weeks and immediately the model is already with organized shoots

    The problem is that these newbie models think that a photoshoot-model is just standing there, moving a bit here and there, smiles, glance, etc....
    always the Light, .... always.

  13. #53
    vince123123
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    I tell you lah, some of these newbie models can't even stand there , move a bit, smile or glance. Some can't even smile! HAHAH

    And yes, you are right on the wannabe organisers out to earn money. You can tell from the cookie-cutter mass production style shoots nowadays.

    And of course they will rather defer the test shoots, that one earn S$0. Get paid shoots, and get fat lamb photographers to give them photos, got $ got photos, better than test shoots right?

    I do think that a symptom of such massproduction shoots is due to the subscription based charging system to be an organiser. Once you pay the subscription, you need to cheong many shoots in order to get your money's worth. Hence, when you cheong and squeeze as many as possible, things sure will get compromised.

    In the days where no $$ is required to pay, at least people took their time to organise shoots and plan better. I'll say that a good balance between the need to pay and the time for planning, is to reintroduce the concept of pay per shoot, which was in place for quite some time; before it was totally removed.






    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    actually this is the only point that I am disappointed .... so many newbie xmm with zero experience and yet the organizers cheong to organize for them .... probably due to lack of new faces and too many wannabe organizers here (probably easy money)

    In many instances, TFCD was arrange and agree but due to busy work schedule, the shoot was delay for a few weeks and immediately the model is already with organized shoots

    The problem is that these newbie models think that a photoshoot-model is just standing there, moving a bit here and there, smiles, glance, etc....
    Last edited by vince123123; 5th February 2009 at 04:56 PM.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    Basically sorry to say but it's the same circle of local models being offered by organizers
    albeit some from overseas and it's becoming quite a lethargic scenario.

    Will bet even the overseas models will soon be circulated all over again.At the end of the
    day it's still shooters choice to signup.
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  15. #55

    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    Quote Originally Posted by lkkang View Post
    so, what do you think the CS moderators should do ? close the thread ? terminate the member ?
    CS should not promote models who are not truely models.

    There are only few modelling agencies in singapore that has true models.

    The rest of them are entertainment company.

    There is no such thing as freelance model. Unless the person has gone through and certified by modelling agencies that he/she is an ex model.

    It is insulting to a model to see such quality of ppl calling themselves model
    Last edited by antonioshabirto; 5th February 2009 at 09:54 PM.

  16. #56

    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post

    The insult is that there are people who are masquerading as photographers here.

    I think there are, um, people who like a certain branch of portrature VERY MUCH.



    also, http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/tags.php
    Last edited by estel; 5th February 2009 at 09:55 PM.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    hi antonioshabirto,

    I do see your point here. And I think they are valid.

    Billy

    Quote Originally Posted by antonioshabirto View Post
    CS should not promote models who are not truely models.

    There are only few modelling agencies in singapore that has true models.

    The rest of them are entertainment company.

    There is no such thing as freelance model. Unless the person has gone through and certified by modelling agencies that he/she is an ex model.

    It is insulting to a model to see such quality of ppl calling themselves model

  18. #58
    vince123123
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    Sorry dude, there are such things as freelance models. There was a rather involved discussion on this some time back in one of the threads, and both sides agreed to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by antonioshabirto View Post
    CS should not promote models who are not truely models.

    There are only few modelling agencies in singapore that has true models.

    The rest of them are entertainment company.

    There is no such thing as freelance model. Unless the person has gone through and certified by modelling agencies that he/she is an ex model.

    It is insulting to a model to see such quality of ppl calling themselves model

  19. #59
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    Quote Originally Posted by soma View Post
    why not you conduct one workshop for them...
    that'll be interesting. i want budget shot

  20. #60
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    Default Re: It's insulting to photographers here on CS

    So there are good photogs, and there are bad photogs.
    And so there are professional models, there are freelance models.

    And the questions come:

    - Is anyone holding a camera a photog?
    - Is anyone posing in front of the camera a model?

    Its how you justify it all. If you look at it from a professional (talk about money, talk about quality) point of view, definitely plenty of things here will leave a serious distaste in any professional's mouth who is worth their portfolio. And if you look at it from the other side of the meadow, whoever holds a camera is a photog (nothing wrong by definition i think), so what now?

    not everyone produces quality work. especially with the increase in photogs (people holding DSLRs) now, brand new shooters who can afford D3s. definitely quality of pictures out on the net will be flooded with "horrible" pictures of people wishing to flaunt the wonderful pictures generated by their D3s...

    just my 0.2 cents.
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