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Thread: Petrol on the increase

  1. #21

    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    His arguments are a sarcastic parody of your arguments which I honestly think doesn't hold water.

    If I were to phrase his parody to fit yours better it will be like this:

    So there is no need to have job credit, property debates and cut in corporate tax. If you don't own a business, you have nothing to complain about right?

    I'll add in my own to the mix:

    Why are you people complaining about higher transport fare? No one put a gun to your head and say that you must take bus/taxi/mrt. If you want to take bus/taxi/mrt, then pay the price, otherwise use your own two feet or ride a bicycle. Its simple economics. If the bus company need to think of how to help those that cannot pay, then its no longer a business but charity.
    Agreed with you. However do consider the following:

    1. Need to drive due to work e.g. sale rep
    2. Those staying in the east and working in Jurong

    Measures were taken to reduce business cost, don't you think it is their responsibilities to give some of the cut to the community?

  2. #22

    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    Quote Originally Posted by stor View Post
    This remark was posted by someone in another forum.

    Despite having taxed 7% GST, the govt collects $28 extra from each and every full tank of Shell Formula from every car owner visiting petrol station. A full tank of Shell Formula for a 1500cc car should cost the owner only $83.72 including 7%GST but instead the govt charges an additional $28 extra onto motorist receipt costing the owner a total of $111.72. That $28 paid extra is a govt added charges of 0.40 cents per litre of petrol X 70 litre full tank 1500 cc car, and this is a hefty 33.44% ($28X100/$83.72) added over and above the 7% GST already paid. Can we do nothing and just watch being ripped off during this difficult time?

    The fact is we Singaporeans cannot do anything as we have hopeless opposition who failed to speak out and act for the people in the streets. We have 3 opposition as MPs drawing salary of S$15K a month from tax payer and what we got are a bunch of wayang.
    We have to be cautious with our words.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    yes, petrol prices affect more than just people driving.

    to see it as a simple rudimentary good is definitely not being fair. a lot is affected in any economy these days when petrol prices rise and fall.

    in any case, i would argue that there is nothing any government should do in such a case. it is not a matter of taking people's interests into consideration, but looking at the broader picture. i'm sure most people here would be able to deduce logically that regulation of oil price is certainly out of the question. the only perceiveable solution is to prop it up using artificial rebates and subsidies. and where do these come from? it turns into a zero sum game at best. if one examines the nitty gritty details, the ones who benefit the most are the upper/middle class which have more to do with petrol than the lower class due to simple consumption. and i would have thought that we didn't want that. but hello, double standards.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    I am in total agreement with you when you mentioned hopeless opposition.

    However, the rest of your argument is for the rest of the interest parties in this forum to judge for themselves. Anyone who can see things in a broader perspective would have no problem to agree with what I said. What I mentioned were just facts.



    Quote Originally Posted by aeskywan View Post
    On the contrary, I feel that our govt is doing a good job. If those hopeless opposition take over we will be like our neighbors...

    Those who say I am stupid... well you are the ones not looking at the big picture. More taxes means more reserves. More reserves means our country can better ride out storms. Honestly here... are you guys starving to death like some in our neighboring countries.. yet make so much noise about every increase, and comparing the bus example to mine about putting a gun to your head to buy petrol... Oh please..... nice try but it really doesn't relate.... Cars are an luxury, buses are not. And Please if you dont have car. you will die?? So dont drive means no need to buy petrol... what is the big problem.

    Already now with the number of cars in Singapore, we have not enough parking. Just look at HBD estates carparks bursting to the seams. Do we really want cheap petrol and Bangkok or KL style traffic jams? And economically suffer? I say a big NO. I say make those who want to drive pay for their petrol. Can afford to pay then drive. If not please kindly dont jam the roads.

    anyway it seems that certain individuals here like to dominate their threads and pat each other on their own backs and don't take alternative views. Well so be it.... Shall leave you same old fellows to carry on entertaining and praising each other.

  5. #25
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    You used such strong words such as gun and die, so I'm going to use the same back on you:

    "Honestly here... are you starving to death like some in our neighboring countries.. yet make so much noise about every increase, and comparing the bus example to mine about putting a gun to your head to buy petrol... Oh please..... is anyone putting a gun to your head to take a bus/train/taxi? Use your feet and bicycle like in some countries .... Taxis and trains in some countries are an luxury, feet and bicycles are not. And Please if you dont have to take a bus/train/taxi. you will die?? So just walk and dont complain, what is the big problem.

    Also please also address stor's post at #15 before you make such a sweeping statement that people who dont' drive cannot discuss about petrol prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by aeskywan View Post
    On the contrary, I feel that our govt is doing a good job. If those hopeless opposition take over we will be like our neighbors...

    Those who say I am stupid... well you are the ones not looking at the big picture. More taxes means more reserves. More reserves means our country can better ride out storms. Honestly here... are you guys starving to death like some in our neighboring countries.. yet make so much noise about every increase, and comparing the bus example to mine about putting a gun to your head to buy petrol... Oh please..... nice try but it really doesn't relate.... Cars are an luxury, buses are not. And Please if you dont have car. you will die?? So dont drive means no need to buy petrol... what is the big problem.

    Already now with the number of cars in Singapore, we have not enough parking. Just look at HBD estates carparks bursting to the seams. Do we really want cheap petrol and Bangkok or KL style traffic jams? And economically suffer? I say a big NO. I say make those who want to drive pay for their petrol. Can afford to pay then drive. If not please kindly dont jam the roads.

    anyway it seems that certain individuals here like to dominate their threads and pat each other on their own backs and don't take alternative views. Well so be it.... Shall leave you same old fellows to carry on entertaining and praising each other.
    Last edited by vince123123; 4th February 2009 at 10:11 AM.

  6. #26
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    Yup agreed, he doesnt' get the idea of why someone's luxury is another man's necessity. He thinks cars are luxuries because to him it is.

    Same thing, I tell him that buses/taxis and trains are luxuries to those in other countries wher the main form of transportation is feet and bicycles. But he doesn't think so and he sticks to his POV that cars are luxuries and buses/taxis and trains are not. That is strictly his POV.

    He uses strong words like putting gun to heads and people dying, hence I put it back to him that no one puts guns to people's heads and no one dies if he doesn't take his bus and uses his feet or bicycle. In fact he gains some health! HAHA!

    But doesn't matter, because if he doesn't understand that there are many POVs and that strong emotive words are not the way to a logical discussion, then its his prerogative.

    For the record, I'm not against buses, cars, taxis or trains or complaining about hikes or not; I'm merely using and emulating his method of answering your posts, back at him. A lot of people dont' take very kindly to having their own strategy used against them or seeing themselves in the mirror.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    Agreed with you. However do consider the following:

    1. Need to drive due to work e.g. sale rep
    2. Those staying in the east and working in Jurong

    Measures were taken to reduce business cost, don't you think it is their responsibilities to give some of the cut to the community?
    Last edited by vince123123; 4th February 2009 at 10:07 AM.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    I dont use the car whenever I can take bus or train to destination. At a comfortable level, the bus journey should be less than 20 mins as I am also bringing my baby along. Even though I stay in near central area, I have tried walking home for about 25 mins. Each of us have different level of comfort definition and it varies to circumstances. To me, it doesnt matter if petrol is on the rise, its about resource management altogether.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    As far as I am concern, aeskywan is just arguing for the sake of argument for whatever reasons.

    Petrol prices have a major impact on the economy. It affects mainly the middle to lower income group of people whose spending power for daily needs will be eroded by the inflationary effects causes by petrol prices. Be it food, clothings, business operating cost, drinks....it will be passed down to the consumer. The rich will not feel the impact as they got all the spending power.

    Oil prices are still hanging around USD40 a barrel and we faced a 9 cents increase within the last 3 weeks for no apparent reasons. The USD dollar exchange rates are still very favourable and thus, these petrol firms did not suffered any exchange losses at all. So, why should there be these 9 cents increase a litre? Absolutely no one can do anything about these unjust increase.

    For those running small business and have alot of running to do, these are additional cost to them. For those still hold the thoughts that petrol prices increase have no effect on the lives of those without cars, think again!


  9. #29
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    Yes my point exactly, everyone has different comfort definitions. I take bus/train/taxi and drive my own vehicle. One man's meat is another man's poison.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3in1c View Post
    I dont use the car whenever I can take bus or train to destination. At a comfortable level, the bus journey should be less than 20 mins as I am also bringing my baby along. Even though I stay in near central area, I have tried walking home for about 25 mins. Each of us have different level of comfort definition and it varies to circumstances. To me, it doesnt matter if petrol is on the rise, its about resource management altogether.

  10. #30
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    I have an idea! But I'm not sure if it's feasible.
    How about all motorists gang up to boycott the first petrol company that raises prices? It won't really save motorists $ in the short term, since all the rest will follow suit.
    But over a few cycles, if enough people take part in this, the companies will see a difference in their takings. Perhaps they won't be so quick to raise prices next time. If it really works, nobody will dare to be the first one to raise prices. That should be a good scenario.
    what do you guys think?
    Exploring! :)

  11. #31

    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    I have an idea! But I'm not sure if it's feasible.
    How about all motorists gang up to boycott the first petrol company that raises prices? It won't really save motorists $ in the short term, since all the rest will follow suit.
    But over a few cycles, if enough people take part in this, the companies will see a difference in their takings. Perhaps they won't be so quick to raise prices next time. If it really works, nobody will dare to be the first one to raise prices. That should be a good scenario.
    what do you guys think?
    Yes. The ppl power. If we get together I think we will be able to it.

    Any date in mind? Who is the first on the chopping block?

  12. #32
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    This whole banding together thing only works if everyone bands together. Unfortunately in practice, it is impossible to get everyone to band together.

    Also, the time between the price increases are so short, it is sometimes hard to tell who raised first.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    I have an idea! But I'm not sure if it's feasible.
    How about all motorists gang up to boycott the first petrol company that raises prices? It won't really save motorists $ in the short term, since all the rest will follow suit.
    But over a few cycles, if enough people take part in this, the companies will see a difference in their takings. Perhaps they won't be so quick to raise prices next time. If it really works, nobody will dare to be the first one to raise prices. That should be a good scenario.
    what do you guys think?

  13. #33

    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    This whole banding together thing only works if everyone bands together. Unfortunately in practice, it is impossible to get everyone to band together.

    Also, the time between the price increases are so short, it is sometimes hard to tell who raised first.
    I heard over the radio. It mentioned the starter and the followers. I cannot remember who. But i knew he last to increase was SPC.

    We can alway watchout if there is another increase! Never too late!

  14. #34
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    Heheh okay, now the hard part is getting everyone to agree to do the same thing

    There is a website that tracks petrol prices - www.petrolwatch.com.sg.

    Check it out, they even tracked the most recent change. The starter is Shell! :P

    Also you see the recent price increase, all like cartel sia, the prices are IDENTICAL right until the third decimal place haha!

    http://www.petrolwatch.com.sg/news/



    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    I heard over the radio. It mentioned the starter and the followers. I cannot remember who. But i knew he last to increase was SPC.

    We can alway watchout if there is another increase! Never too late!
    Last edited by vince123123; 4th February 2009 at 02:09 PM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    The 4 petrol companies apparently co-ordinate well on any increase. I noticed they took turn to be the first to increase and thus it is very difficult to pin point who started first. I guess it is all a business decision on the 4 companies and maybe some strong authorities behind supporting it.

    Maybe setting up a blog specifically to tackle and track these companies prices and to gather all like minded drivers or even men in the streets to come into this blog. Whenever there is a price increase, send out a RSS feed to all on the blog.If 40% to 50% of the motorist bothers to boycott whoever raise the prices first, the impact might be there.


    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    This whole banding together thing only works if everyone bands together. Unfortunately in practice, it is impossible to get everyone to band together.

    Also, the time between the price increases are so short, it is sometimes hard to tell who raised first.

  16. #36
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    But if you are right and they really do the round robin, then any coordinated boycott will also fail, since it is a take turn thing in the first place.

    Meaning we boycott A, next time we boycott B next time we boycott C, but A B and C already agree with each other to take turns, so in the end there is no boycott.


    Quote Originally Posted by stor View Post
    The 4 petrol companies apparently co-ordinate well on any increase. I noticed they took turn to be the first to increase and thus it is very difficult to pin point who started first. I guess it is all a business decision on the 4 companies and maybe some strong authorities behind supporting it.

    Maybe setting up a blog specifically to tackle and track these companies prices and to gather all like minded drivers or even men in the streets to come into this blog. Whenever there is a price increase, send out a RSS feed to all on the blog.If 40% to 50% of the motorist bothers to boycott whoever raise the prices first, the impact might be there.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    But if you are right and they really do the round robin, then any coordinated boycott will also fail, since it is a take turn thing in the first place.

    Meaning we boycott A, next time we boycott B next time we boycott C, but A B and C already agree with each other to take turns, so in the end there is no boycott.
    If i'm not wrong boycotting in Singapore is illegal.

    Last time there is one e-mail in circulation saying that instead of pumping full-tank..go for $20 or $30 per pumps..and pump only when necessary. Not necessary to maintain full tank when driving around in Singapore especially petrol stations are almost everywhere. By doing so, the refeulling truck have to come less..petrol-chemical production companies will start chalking up their own tanks.

    Couldn't explain better myself, but hopefully bros here understand what I mean. And hopefully those who can explain better or still have that e-mail can post up here and share.
    This is an electronic post which requires no signature.

  18. #38
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    Boycotting in Singapore is not illegal. Price collusion in Singapore is illegal.

    The advantage of not pumping full tank in theory is less petrol to carry around and thus gain better milleage. But it does not make the refuelling truck come less often or cause storage issues for suppliers.

    Lets say you need to pump once a week at max. All you do is to stretch their storage cycle to one week. I don't think one week kills any supplier.

    The case will be very different if say, one full tank can last one year; then it will make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by blazer_workz View Post
    If i'm not wrong boycotting in Singapore is illegal.

    Last time there is one e-mail in circulation saying that instead of pumping full-tank..go for $20 or $30 per pumps..and pump only when necessary. Not necessary to maintain full tank when driving around in Singapore especially petrol stations are almost everywhere. By doing so, the refeulling truck have to come less..petrol-chemical production companies will start chalking up their own tanks.

    Couldn't explain better myself, but hopefully bros here understand what I mean. And hopefully those who can explain better or still have that e-mail can post up here and share.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    Quote Originally Posted by blazer_workz View Post
    If i'm not wrong boycotting in Singapore is illegal.

    Last time there is one e-mail in circulation saying that instead of pumping full-tank..go for $20 or $30 per pumps..and pump only when necessary. Not necessary to maintain full tank when driving around in Singapore especially petrol stations are almost everywhere. By doing so, the refeulling truck have to come less..petrol-chemical production companies will start chalking up their own tanks.

    Couldn't explain better myself, but hopefully bros here understand what I mean. And hopefully those who can explain better or still have that e-mail can post up here and share.
    There was once when motorists were told not to pump petrol on a certain day.. any feedback?

  20. #40

    Default Re: Petrol on the increase

    Well, not sure how it will goes. But the company who sufferr the boycott will think twice the next time they want to increase...I supposed.

    On the other hand, if most motorist boycott brand 'A' for long, their sales will suffer. They would then have to lower price to attract back the customers. This in turn will force the 4 to fight it out which is not the case at this moment as all the 4 are comfortable with their own pool of customers. Could this be given a thought?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    But if you are right and they really do the round robin, then any coordinated boycott will also fail, since it is a take turn thing in the first place.

    Meaning we boycott A, next time we boycott B next time we boycott C, but A B and C already agree with each other to take turns, so in the end there is no boycott.

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