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Thread: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

  1. #61
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    #1, those come to CS to look for cheap or free photography service, do not know much about CS, all the know is here can find cheap or free photographers.

    #2, those customers who willing to pay, most of them have many other avenues to source for the right photographers.

    #3, those who offer photography service for living, hardly use CS to advertise their service, and very little business are generate from here.



    Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken adv?
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  2. #62
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    #1, those come to CS to look for cheap or free photography service, do not know much about CS, all the know is here can find cheap or free photographers.

    #2, those customers who willing to pay, most of them have many other avenues to source for the right photographers.

    #3, those who offer photography service for living, hardly use CS to advertise their service, and very little business are generate from here.



    Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken adv?
    haha i have to agree..all the enquiries i get from ClubSnap have something in common: the email discussion stops abruptly when they see my rates.

    which i think are highly reasonable... maybe my pictures no good lah.
    ))=

    or camera not big enough. sigh.
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  3. #63
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBull View Post
    yeah, very easy for many people to say "just say no, no one can force you, must be firm, make a stand, no one can make you, etc etc etc" when you get blacklisted or get shown the door, these same people will say "you should have done it, why fight the system, why did you say no, should have just take the photos its no big deal, etc."

    fact is, only if you are in a job to pass time, dun depend on it to pay your bills and make a living, can you say no. else just el el shoot and take it as practicing photography....
    i choose to be blacklisted rather than be held "hostage" in future. i oni live once, i choose a path i regret less if not least. there will always be people who says wad they like to say, be its up to me how i 1 2 live my life. a flawed system will some day hit the wall. like Wall Street grinding to a halt, cos there are people who supported it for no good reasons too long.

    like it or not every job done time passes, the choice is ultimately mine (or each individual). be resentful at being creamed off & work like a cog in the wheel, or take the dread out of work. to a point its about personal values.
    Last edited by sORe-EyEz; 30th January 2009 at 10:59 PM. Reason: general edit
    have u seen the "light" yet?

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    I am missing something, why do we let people at work know we are photographers?
    cos even phones come with image capture capabilities!!

    -------------------

    this topic cannot die wan...
    have u seen the "light" yet?

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Look, if they are my very close friends, I am happy to help them in my own little way, to photograph their happy occasion. There is no idea of "taking advantage" at all. I have done so, completely free of charge. Why so calculative? In life you win some and you lose some. Don't be afraid to help in your own small way.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by antacid View Post
    haha i have to agree..all the enquiries i get from ClubSnap have something in common: the email discussion stops abruptly when they see my rates.

    which i think are highly reasonable... maybe my pictures no good lah.
    ))=

    or camera not big enough. sigh.
    DEFINITELY!

    If PRO, want to charge PRO rates, must use PRO kamela like dees:




  7. #67
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Look, if they are my very close friends, I am happy to help them in my own little way, to photograph their happy occasion. There is no idea of "taking advantage" at all. I have done so, completely free of charge. Why so calculative? In life you win some and you lose some. Don't be afraid to help in your own small way.
    And you don't mind when (if) they treat you like a paid photographer? Eg. Chasing you for photos, request prints (for free), criticise your photos...etc

    Personally i'm fine helping close friends as auxilliary photographers but never the main one if i'm not paid. Its like I happy i shoot, i don't feel like then i just sit back and enjoy the food.
    Dun blame the camera...blame the one behind the viewfinder :bsmilie:
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  8. #68
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by tkbonz View Post
    And you don't mind when (if) they treat you like a paid photographer? Eg. Chasing you for photos, request prints (for free), criticise your photos...etc

    Personally i'm fine helping close friends as auxilliary photographers but never the main one if i'm not paid.
    I was the main one, not the auxiliary. Of course my close friends don't chase for photos, reprints or criticise. People with no class (talking about personal conduct - not wealth) don't become my close friends. From your question, I can see that you are not aware that I also gave them all the negatives.

    To give you an example of what I mean by no class, I once spotted someone who was given a free medium format camera in CS and immediately advertised it for sale in CS to demand a lot of money. That's my opinion. You opinion may differ.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 30th January 2009 at 11:51 PM.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    DEFINITELY!

    If PRO, want to charge PRO rates, must use PRO kamela like dees:



    i think by the time u get ready to shoot, half the wedding over liao.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by flipfreak View Post
    i think by the time u get ready to shoot, half the wedding over liao.
    SHHHHH!

    Don't let everyone know the 'SECRET' to combat all these cheapskates lah!

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    I was the main one, not the auxiliary. Of course my close friends don't chase for photos, reprints or criticise. People with no class (talking about personal conduct - not wealth) don't become my close friends. From your question, I can see that you are not aware that I also gave them all the negatives.

    To give you an example of what I mean by no class, I once spotted someone who was given a free medium format camera in CS and immediately advertised it for sale in CS to demand a lot of money. That's my opinion. You opinion may differ.
    I remembered that incident... Its low class, I agree wif you.

    Bottom line, I think we should be discerning enough whether to agree or not to your friend's "requests". Cause ultimately you should be responsible for your own decision, so there's no right or wrong.
    Dun blame the camera...blame the one behind the viewfinder :bsmilie:
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  12. #72
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    SHHHHH!

    Don't let everyone know the 'SECRET' to combat all these cheapskates lah!
    And remember to tell the guests to not move for that few minutes (exposure in low lighting conditions....)
    Dun blame the camera...blame the one behind the viewfinder :bsmilie:
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  13. #73
    Member gsv13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    When you say its a friend ..i think it has to be free for few click's there's no question f asking money .

    Unless Photography is your only bread and butter and he is expecting you to do printing and artwork and albums.then you should be able to ask him straight away.and above all it depends whats at stake that causes you a pain.

    cheers
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  14. #74
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Hi.. I believe CS was meant to be a place for people who has affection for photography. People who likes to take pictures, people who likes to view photos, people who likes to be in the pictures etc..

    It's a place for sharing, learning, and for people with similar interests to meet. So there are newbies as well as old birds.

    Is it solely intended to be a sourcing ground for photographic services and business oriented? I guess not. Or is it mainly for promoting photography ( in the context of a hobby/interest/passion ) ? I guess yes.

    If a place promotes a certain interest, it is inevitable that there will be people to go to that place to source for providers of related service at low cost. Because it is a place for sharing and learning photography, as well as a place with concentration of people who have a passion for photography, it is expected to be the natural source of "cheap or free" photographers. That is a fair expectation, isn't it?


    "Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers." -> Probably yes.

    "Are we being taken adv?" -> Definitely Not. You are only "taken advantage of" if, you're like the TS's case, where one is good at something, and he knows he is good at something, but others expected him to do it for free, and he is unwilling to do it.

    In summary, I believe CS is a place for promoting photography, Not intended to be a place that is solely for advertising "professional" photography services.


    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    #1, those come to CS to look for cheap or free photography service, do not know much about CS, all the know is here can find cheap or free photographers.

    #2, those customers who willing to pay, most of them have many other avenues to source for the right photographers.

    #3, those who offer photography service for living, hardly use CS to advertise their service, and very little business are generate from here.






    Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken adv?

  15. #75

    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    Hi.. one humble suggestion..

    Maybe you can introduce her to CS, then ask her to sign up as a member. Then you can invite her to post under the services wanted section with the title "TFCD photographer required for ROM shoot". Who knows, some members may be willing to do it for free.

    If it turns out well, you do not have take her pictures for free and she had her pictures taken w/o spending money.

    Isn't it a win-win solution?

    Of coz, have to explicitly highlight that you're not responsible for the outcome of the pictures and she has to pick her own photographer.


    If you do it strictly because of passion, as you said CS is a place for people with passion about photography, then, shoot for your friends and don't say you are taken advantages of, even though, in reality, you were.

    I am therefore taken advantage of all the time, shooting tests. HAHAHA. But I love what I do and I don't feel loosing any advantages.

    As soon as the size of the ang bao is taken into consideration, then, no, this is no longer a passion issue.

    As I said earlier, many people get their ego boosted because someone asked them to shoot, then got the blues because a 3 hours shoot took a total of 13 hours including pre and post production. And on top of everything, the new flash or new lens that was bought to shoot ....

    At the end of the day, shoot what you love, not what other people ask you to shoot.
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  16. #76
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    #3, those who offer photography service for living, hardly use CS to advertise their service, and very little business are generate from here.
    XMMs make a lot of business here leh.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    XMMs make a lot of business here leh.
    they are at the opposite ends of the lense barrel mah.
    have u seen the "light" yet?

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    I'm not sure how is your reply related to my post (which you quoted).

    What I'm trying to put forward is simply that there is nothing wrong with couples posting requests for TFCD service for their ROM.

    It is willing model, willing shooter arrangement. For whatever reasons that the shooter decided to take up the assignment (be it building up portfolio, gain exposure, etc.. ), no one is being taken advantage of as long as both are willing parties.

    When I mention the part about passion for photography, the point is that there shouldn't be any concern about CS's reputation affected due to presence of "requests for TFCD for ROM" postings, as compared to a site designed for providing "professional photography services".

    A site that caters to "Share knowledge, discuss ideas, forge new friendships with others who have a similar passion and interest in photography", should not be concerned about it's reputation affected by "Request for TFCD for ROM" postings.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    If you do it strictly because of passion, as you said CS is a place for people with passion about photography, then, shoot for your friends and don't say you are taken advantages of, even though, in reality, you were.

    I am therefore taken advantage of all the time, shooting tests. HAHAHA. But I love what I do and I don't feel loosing any advantages.

    As soon as the size of the ang bao is taken into consideration, then, no, this is no longer a passion issue.

    As I said earlier, many people get their ego boosted because someone asked them to shoot, then got the blues because a 3 hours shoot took a total of 13 hours including pre and post production. And on top of everything, the new flash or new lens that was bought to shoot ....

    At the end of the day, shoot what you love, not what other people ask you to shoot.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Your true friend you said.

    Won't your true freind wants you to participate and enjoy the celebration, with friends?

    No true friend will ask a true friends to work while they play. That is not a true friend.
    i have frens that have budget constrain for their wedding plan.
    i will tell them i'm not a good photographer, if they insist, i'll take it as training...
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  20. #80
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    Default Re: Does your fren take advantage of you for photography services

    Heh. Sure, I'd do it for free. The photography is free.

    But if you want the photos, must pay lah. $1/MB.

    Seriously though, I have shot for free before. But it will be totally under my terms, and it will almost certainly be "experimental" or "artistic" photography. For example, maybe I want to try shooting Lomo style? Or some risky technique that I've never ever tried before? This will be made known in advance, of course.

    Even then, they'd still have to cover at least my raw material cost.

    If that's not what they want, I'd still not say "no" straight away. Maybe I'll lay out the cheapest option that I can provide, while still taking into consideration if it'll be worth my while. And that's that.

    However (there's always a however), if it happens to be a very, very good friend who happens to be chio and have chio friends, then I don't mind doing it for peanuts. (Hey, at least I'm being honest!) Then again, good friends don't take advantage of each other, so I've been fortunate not to have people try to sponge off me anyway.
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