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Thread: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

  1. #41

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by navlem View Post
    Oh ok, I'm no pro at macro, I'm just giving a general perspective :P
    Its ok, we all share knowledge. I'm also no Pro in Photography. hahaha. I still sux at taking some area of pics. hahaha.


    Btw, Master Ombre & Navlem!

    I took a pic of my friend at work. Just wanna know if I do it well...coz I'm very weak at this area of pics :P

    Using Canon 400D with External Flash with Diffuser. I did some editing on it. ISO is 400 I think.

    1)


    2)


    3)
    Last edited by ricsal; 21st January 2009 at 06:14 PM.
    My Flickr iownthislensthatlensthislensthatlens

  2. #42

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by ricsal View Post
    IMHO, P mode is only best when taking outdoor potraiture or big object shots. As for Macros, it will not help much since we are looking at a smaller objects. 'A' mode is the best for now...unless if we can Master M mode with fast changing the exposure. The contrast is based on the Flash intensity that you used.

    Just my 2cnets knowledge.
    I think I can understand where Melvan is coming from, this is probably due to a difference between the systems.

    P mode in DSLR plays an extra function when doing flash photography for DSLR. The metering goes into a 'full auto' mode. Most of the time the camera, if it detects low light, will lock the aperture at max, and shutter at 1/60, and vary flash power accordingly to expose properly. In outdoors, it will put the flash at max power, shutter usually at fastest (as we have limited shutter sync speed), and vary the aperture to expose correctly. Therefore he wasn't entirely wrong as A mode does only fill flash on a DSLR system. A mode usually causes wrong exposure for flash if used incorrectly.

    Back on my FZ18, I largely used M mode (because I didn't know how to set exposure bias then!), when I eventually did, I still kept to M mode, until the conditions really were too unpredictable, I'd use the sports mode. But that was because on FZ18, the sports mode had smarter ISO controls (okay... not always.)

    This point I'm about to raise...I'm still in doubt here, but I believe I should be correct (at least this is how it works on DSLR). Even when in M mode, your flash is essentially still on auto (at least on board flashes). The flash will roughly calculate the amount of light it needs to put out, if you have the FEC (flash exposure compensation) on 0, it will pump enough light (unless it cant), to bring the exposure to normal, regardless of your shutter speed. Aperture is another story. Flash intensity is affected only buy ISO and aperture... Aperture affects power via a calculation called the guide number: GN = distance X Aperture. For example my 350D on board flash is GN:12m. That means at F4, I can light up something at 3m correctly, at max power. As long as it falls within its power, the camera metering will compensate (such as reduce flash power) to expose the subject correctly, even in M mode. I believe this applies to PNS as well, flash shouldn't be one constant output with a manual control.

    So much info! I think I typed too much, but I guess I'll share the knowledge haha, if anyone feels that the above is wrong, please correct me!

    Anyway the last point about flash in macro. Ricsal mentioned its to add contrast.. hm, this is true in most cases I think, but I felt it was a bonus.

    To me its because insects usually hide in dark corners. =X and macro shooters (DSLR) usually close their aperture to like F13 to accomodate the DOF, thus the flash is needed to counter handshake and expose the subject properly. Also insects are darker, usually they need a +1 exposure bias to bring out the details on their bodies. This is why I normally use flash in macro, not really because of contrast haha, but it does help nevertheless.
    Looking for Canon 100mm F2 USM :)

  3. #43

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by ricsal View Post
    Its ok, we all share knowledge. I'm also no Pro in Photography. hahaha. I still sux at taking some area of pics. hahaha.


    Btw, Master Ombre & Navlem!

    I took a pic of my friend at work. Just wanna know if I do it well...coz I'm very weak at this area of pics :P

    Using Canon 400D with External Flash with Diffuser. I did some editing on it. ISO is 400 I think.

    1)


    2)


    3)
    Woah?! DIRECT FLASH?! haha.

    There is a school of thought, usually those who teach flash photography says NO to diffusers. Unless its a big big BIG softscreen, at least a soft umbrella. Else, only bouncing or umbrellas. This is one school of thoughts at least.

    I quite support the idea but some cases really no choice. (I have a diy diffuser too^^). Based on my experience, I tried on a tripod mounted camera, and I held 2 A3 sized translucent plastic boards, (about 4mm thick total)(sort of like a soft focus filter material) about 40cm infront of the flash and shot it directly at a subject. Its still very very harsh. Only very slight softening of shadows can be seen. So no matter how you diffuser, direct flash is pretty harsh =P

    Anyway never mind the flash, I noticed you edited it quite a bit? Color is pretty good. Catch lights are quite nice actually.

    1) You used gaussian blur I guess? The blending seems a little untidy. or is it lens softness?

    2) Abit tough on flash here

    3) Real DOF or fake?! looks edited to me! Haha but its not an error don't worry.

    Overall not too bad attempt. Its wise of you to use ISO400, the balance between foreground and background is there because of this. I will say you did well to capture the 'ambience' and mood of the location.

    Lastly, don't call me master lol, I'm not that good! Your macros are way nicer than my candids =P
    Last edited by ombre; 21st January 2009 at 06:33 PM.
    Looking for Canon 100mm F2 USM :)

  4. #44

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    nice shot rob... not only u shot a fly, u shot a fly tat is drinking water... lol... 2nd and 3rd pic look better, maybe becoz its sharper

  5. #45

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)



    Everyone wants to edit rob's pictures! Haha. Anyway there's how I would do it. Will share the process too:

    Unsharp mask - 25% / 250 pixels / Threshold 4 (This actually push the contrast up and doesn't do much sharpening actually)
    Screen overlay - 60%
    Gaussian blur layer mask - to clear the noise of the white background

    I initially wanted deep red eyes, but I think this works, not sure if a bit of saturation will help... but just an example =)
    Looking for Canon 100mm F2 USM :)

  6. #46

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    @Riscal,

    Actually its not bad, but i realised the white balance on the first and second pic is different, I would prefer the first picture because the ambience light and the flash light blends better, the second pic the flash seems to overwrite a little, so it becomes a little unbalanced, at some point it is slightly warm, and some point slightly cold. Also the second pic flash is slightly harsh, but thats a personal opinion because there are some who prefer more exposed flash.

    I'm not going to comment on the PP, its really based on personal preference :P

    I would recommend you bounce the flash off the ceiling instead of using a diffuser, but its just my personal opinion, If you would like the warmity of the surrounding on the skin of your subject, you could always bounce on a wooden surface somewhere.

    Just a personal opinion

    BTW, like ombre has stated, i'm no master too :P
    Looking for Photographers? | My Portfolio
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  7. #47

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Just a example of what I stated just now, I bounced this flash off a wooden surface to match the wooden background behind him, so the subject lighting is warmer and blends with the surroundings.

    Note : No PP done :P

    Last edited by navlem; 21st January 2009 at 09:35 PM.
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  8. #48
    Member Clunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Thanks Ricsal, will try to keep all that in mind. I am a bit confused about what I can do with the flash, I use the same diffuser like you showed me but is there something else I should adjust? I have been shooting in M mode at F8 and adjusting shutter speed.
    Ex-FZ 28 Sony a330 SAM 3.5-5.6/18-55 SAM 4-5.6/55-200 DCR250

  9. #49

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Clunk View Post
    Thanks Ricsal, will try to keep all that in mind. I am a bit confused about what I can do with the flash, I use the same diffuser like you showed me but is there something else I should adjust? I have been shooting in M mode at F8 and adjusting shutter speed.
    Hmm...Since u took this indoor right? Sometimes AWB will be off from how it compensate the lightings.

    Maybe you try "A" mode with f8 first. Then you adjust the flash power to +1 or +1.5 just to see how. Dun worry about the shutter, once you pop-up that flash the shutter will go auto. Unless you want to keep trying M mode then go ahead. I seriously failed in M mode. lol.
    My Flickr iownthislensthatlensthislensthatlens

  10. #50
    Member Clunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Hi Ricsal, no it was taken outdoors in a shaded garden the fly was sitting on a flower petal and native honey bees were all around but did not get any of them.
    Ex-FZ 28 Sony a330 SAM 3.5-5.6/18-55 SAM 4-5.6/55-200 DCR250

  11. #51

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by navlem View Post
    @Riscal,

    Actually its not bad, but i realised the white balance on the first and second pic is different, I would prefer the first picture because the ambience light and the flash light blends better, the second pic the flash seems to overwrite a little, so it becomes a little unbalanced, at some point it is slightly warm, and some point slightly cold. Also the second pic flash is slightly harsh, but thats a personal opinion because there are some who prefer more exposed flash.

    I'm not going to comment on the PP, its really based on personal preference :P

    I would recommend you bounce the flash off the ceiling instead of using a diffuser, but its just my personal opinion, If you would like the warmity of the surrounding on the skin of your subject, you could always bounce on a wooden surface somewhere.

    Just a personal opinion

    BTW, like ombre has stated, i'm no master too :P
    Quote Originally Posted by ombre View Post
    Woah?! DIRECT FLASH?! haha.

    There is a school of thought, usually those who teach flash photography says NO to diffusers. Unless its a big big BIG softscreen, at least a soft umbrella. Else, only bouncing or umbrellas. This is one school of thoughts at least.

    I quite support the idea but some cases really no choice. (I have a diy diffuser too^^). Based on my experience, I tried on a tripod mounted camera, and I held 2 A3 sized translucent plastic boards, (about 4mm thick total)(sort of like a soft focus filter material) about 40cm infront of the flash and shot it directly at a subject. Its still very very harsh. Only very slight softening of shadows can be seen. So no matter how you diffuser, direct flash is pretty harsh =P

    Anyway never mind the flash, I noticed you edited it quite a bit? Color is pretty good. Catch lights are quite nice actually.

    1) You used gaussian blur I guess? The blending seems a little untidy. or is it lens softness?

    2) Abit tough on flash here

    3) Real DOF or fake?! looks edited to me! Haha but its not an error don't worry.

    Overall not too bad attempt. Its wise of you to use ISO400, the balance between foreground and background is there because of this. I will say you did well to capture the 'ambience' and mood of the location.

    Lastly, don't call me master lol, I'm not that good! Your macros are way nicer than my candids =P
    Thanks Ombre and Melvin. I will try again.

    As for external flash, yeah I didnt bounce it on the white ceiling or the wood. Basically just direct with the diffuser. Thus the face has some burn spots.

    I used Picasa3 for editing. They got many effects like the ones I used. Especially the 3rd pic which I used Soft Blur effect.

    Let me explain the effect I used on the pic.

    Pic 1) Glow/warmify/fill light effect.

    Pic 2) Warmify and Color effect thus the black & White.

    Pic 3) Soft Blur/Warmify effect.

    My friend hate the 3rd pic! lol. Its her fault to come near me with that face. She said it looks like a POV porn shot! bwhahahaha.

    Maybe Bro Rob would want to download Picasa 3. It helps me in my Macro if the pic is a little darker. User Friendly nonetheless. www.picasa.com
    My Flickr iownthislensthatlensthislensthatlens

  12. #52

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Clunk View Post
    Hi Ricsal, no it was taken outdoors in a shaded garden the fly was sitting on a flower petal and native honey bees were all around but did not get any of them.
    Oh shaded. Well, can try again.

    Bees?? I would love to take that. But I fear them as I have been stung many times. At the market, even while I'm riding my bike(Mr bee went into my jacket and stung me at the chest! ouch)

    This holiday I was hoping to go for some phototaking at the urban jungle but my boss has other ideas for me. Ass guy.

    Have to work whole week due to most of my chinese collegues has to take FORCED Leave. Open 1 shop and guess what...I'm the one who has to tend it.

    Maybe I just bring the camera along to take macro at my company sanctuary

    Is there any outing next month? Would like to use my SLR(not digital) for some building shots and maybe candids.
    My Flickr iownthislensthatlensthislensthatlens

  13. #53

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by ricsal View Post
    Oh shaded. Well, can try again.

    Bees?? I would love to take that. But I fear them as I have been stung many times. At the market, even while I'm riding my bike(Mr bee went into my jacket and stung me at the chest! ouch)

    This holiday I was hoping to go for some phototaking at the urban jungle but my boss has other ideas for me. Ass guy.

    Have to work whole week due to most of my chinese collegues has to take FORCED Leave. Open 1 shop and guess what...I'm the one who has to tend it.

    Maybe I just bring the camera along to take macro at my company sanctuary

    Is there any outing next month? Would like to use my SLR(not digital) for some building shots and maybe candids.
    Currently there are no planned outings yet, though i hope for one :P
    Looking for Photographers? | My Portfolio
    http://www.photoera.uni.cc/ | http://folio.navlem.com/

  14. #54

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Wow, been following through on the thread and had seen a lot of great photos here..Had recently got myself a FZ28 to start with and currently learning the different functions. Recently, I am very interested in Macro shots and I am interested to get a Raynox Macro lens.
    Would like to ask fellow gurus for help on which one to get, DCR-250 or Raynox MSN-202 Macro Lens??
    Another thing is, do I also need to get the lens adapter to fit the lens onto the cam??

  15. #55
    Member Clunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Hi Ricsal, these were native honey bees, they are quite small and best thing is they do not sting, will try to get them tomorrow. I have got Picasa 3 just need some time to play with it, but it does look user friendly. Thanks.
    Ex-FZ 28 Sony a330 SAM 3.5-5.6/18-55 SAM 4-5.6/55-200 DCR250

  16. #56

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by h0usefly View Post
    Wow, been following through on the thread and had seen a lot of great photos here..Had recently got myself a FZ28 to start with and currently learning the different functions. Recently, I am very interested in Macro shots and I am interested to get a Raynox Macro lens.
    Would like to ask fellow gurus for help on which one to get, DCR-250 or Raynox MSN-202 Macro Lens??
    Another thing is, do I also need to get the lens adapter to fit the lens onto the cam??
    Hi there, welcome to our thread, I hope your nick isn't inspired by some of the recent pictures that we've posted here! Haha. Isn't the MSN 202 a little expensive?

    Raynox DCR-250 should work fine for a start. For the Raynox, its light enough to be fitted with a step ring alone. =)
    Looking for Canon 100mm F2 USM :)

  17. #57

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Seriously, I'm going to take a blind stab in the dark.

    Lets have a "next outing" buffer plan. Who wants to go just suggest a place or simply fill your name in =)... Fill this list up, and if a good opportunity arises, we just go. Better than having no plans at all, we'll just sit on it.

    -----------
    FZriends outing #4

    Time: Somewhere in the future
    Place: Somewhere in Singapore
    Style: Unforeseeable.

    Interested participants
    Ombre


    Previous: (for inspiration)
    Outing 1 - Botanic Gardens (Landscapes, Macros & Candids)
    Outing 2 - City (landscapes & street) & Marina Barrage (sunsets)
    Outing 3 - City & Orchard (Flash candids)
    Last edited by ombre; 21st January 2009 at 10:17 PM.
    Looking for Canon 100mm F2 USM :)

  18. #58

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Me interested too :P
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  19. #59

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    My shot at macro :P

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  20. #60

    Default Re: FZriends Thread (FZ18 & FZ28 users and ex-users group - part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by ombre View Post
    Hi there, welcome to our thread, I hope your nick isn't inspired by some of the recent pictures that we've posted here! Haha. Isn't the MSN 202 a little expensive?

    Raynox DCR-250 should work fine for a start. For the Raynox, its light enough to be fitted with a step ring alone. =)
    Tats a real fast response,thanx!
    Is a Ring light(if I'm not wrong..) required for Macro shots, or just the lens with my flash is good enough for a start?

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