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Thread: Radiation from Router

  1. #41

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    wack theory with more theory... cuz Giorgio has gone wack wif wat he's posting.... (I underlined the parts I dun agree)


    Relation between radiation and heating of water....(do remember humans are 70% water)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_absorption

    Microwave absorption in Human.... tat is if you can absorb wat they write in the first place
    http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Pers...es/mwabsor.htm

    As to cellphone (and similarly wifi radiation) see 4th para of the answer
    http://howthingswork.virginia.edu/page1.php?QNum=1516


    But good Giorgio brought up DNA... I can't confirm it atm, IIRC DNA is somewhat affected by radiation energy (ionising or not) but biologically speaking there's somewhat a built-in checks to overcome errors and omissions, that's why we are largely unaffected... that being said, naturally, there's a limit to everything.... juz dun do stupid things like standing in front of a transmitting AEGIS radar.

    *edit* okie found the link to DNA thingy... take note that it is on ionising radiation
    http://www.e-radiography.net/radsafety/rad_biology.htm

    finally found about the biological effects of NON-ionising radiation.... everone seem to forget UV light is non-ionising.
    http://www.environmental-expert.com/...dproducttype=6


    Probaly bad anology.
    What i'm trying to say is that it probaly has alot of emitter.
    Am not an enginnering student so i can't really answer how a microwave is built...

    I understand the one on water absorption.It's done using FTIR.Different molecules has different energy requirement needed to bring it to it's excited state.FTIR is base on the principles of atoms excitation.
    Let's say we have a compoud and we want to know what molecules are present.
    We allow it to undergo FTIR test.A graph will be produce which shows the different peak.
    The different peaks would give you the different absorption of wavelength for different compoud.
    If water falls in their respective abosprtion of wavelength.then water is present.
    So since atom excitation=transmission of atoms to a higher energy level,heat is produced.

    However,this is still not the case of mutation.
    Last edited by Giorgio; 22nd January 2009 at 12:18 AM.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgio View Post
    Probaly bad anology.
    What i'm trying to say is that it probaly has alot of emitter.
    Am not an enginnering student so i can't really answer how a microwave is built...
    nope... there's onli 1 transmitter inside most consumer microwave oven.... no need to be engineer... all you need to do is open the microwave oven door and take a look inside...it's quite obvious in most case.


    btw it's called magnetron (kool sounding name for a transmitter ... dun u tink)... and it doesn't transmit IR... IR is transmitted in toasters.
    Last edited by CYRN; 22nd January 2009 at 12:19 AM.
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  3. #43

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    nope... there's onli 1 transmitter inside most consumer microwave oven.... no need to be engineer... all you need to do is open the microwave oven door and take a look inside...it's quite obvious in most case.


    btw it's called magnetron (kool sounding name for a transmitter ... dun u tink)
    really?just one?
    I tho they have many.But anyway,people tend to forget that microwave has a rather wide range.
    The one used for food,theorectially,should be shorter and thus the higher amount of energy for food.
    The one for hp and FM is on the longer wavelength side and hence less energy.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgio View Post
    really?just one?
    I tho they have many.But anyway,people tend to forget that microwave has a rather wide range.
    The one used for food,theorectially,should be shorter and thus the higher amount of energy for food.
    The one for hp and FM is on the longer wavelength side and hence less energy.
    really! juz 1 .... damn... tell you to go look see look see alreadi lah....

    Also... you got mix up with the energy/frequency too... I can use the same frequency of cellphone ... pump up the volume... and still fry your brains out (but of course I can't use a cell phone to do it, it's not designed to transmit that high power anyway)
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  5. #45

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    really! juz 1 .... damn... tell you to go look see look see alreadi lah....

    Also... you got mix up with the energy/frequency too... I can use the same frequency of cellphone ... pump up the volume... and still fry your brains out (but of course I can't use a cell phone to do it, it's not designed to transmit that high power anyway)


    ........
    Me mix up energy and volume?I didn't mix it up,it's basic physic....
    The shorter your wavelength,the higher your energy.The longer,the lower your energy.
    That is why in the EM spectrum,microwave/radiowave/IR all have low amount of energy.I don't know what you mean by frying brain.I assume you're saying that the energy is high?However,in science,we have to be specific.What is high amount of energy and what is low?To say high and low is relative.
    We have to be quantitative.
    There you go,the Electromagnetic wave spectrum will show you what is high and low energy.

    I don't know what you mean volume in EMW.
    okok we're not talking about the buildup of micro-oven anyway.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    semi-con machines have more radiation than just wireless router...

  7. #47

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgio View Post
    ........
    Me mix up energy and volume?I didn't mix it up,it's basic physic....
    The shorter your wavelength,the higher your energy.The longer,the lower your energy.
    That is why in the EM spectrum,microwave/radiowave/IR all have low amount of energy.I don't know what you mean by frying brain.I assume you're saying that the energy is high?However,in science,we have to be specific.What is high amount of energy and what is low?To say high and low is relative.
    We have to be quantitative.
    There you go,the Electromagnetic wave spectrum will show you what is high and low energy.

    I don't know what you mean volume in EMW.
    okok we're not talking about the buildup of micro-oven anyway.
    ya. cuz you are only half correct.... u dun even know anything about microwaves and you even want to start to "challenge" someone who's trying to correct your assumption...

    you are right in higher frequency wavelengths have higher "inert" (I can't remember the term) energy. think of it photographically... red have lesser "energy" compared to violet.... but that's just the frequency....

    Where you went wrong with your dangerous half-facts is....

    the main component of energy lies in the amplitude of that frequency. To co-relate.. you can have a dim red light... pump it up and you have a bright red light... push it further you have a powerful red light... meddle with it and sync them and you get red LASER... all same frequency and similar so-called "energy".... but the power is vastly different...

    ask you to stand under a dim red light you no problem right... ask you to stand under a powerful red light (those you see that keep food warm type) and you'll feel the heat... now, would you dare to stand in the way of an industrial powered red laser? same frequency and same so-called "energy" mah.
    Last edited by CYRN; 22nd January 2009 at 09:50 AM.
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  8. #48

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    ya. cuz you are only half correct.... u dun even know anything about microwaves and you even want to start to "challenge" someone who's trying to correct your assumption...

    you are right in higher frequency wavelengths have higher "inert" (I can't remember the term) energy. think of it photographically... red have lesser "energy" compared to violet.... but that's just the frequency....

    Where you went wrong with your dangerous half-facts is....

    the main component of energy lies in the amplitude of that frequency. To co-relate.. you can have a dim red light... pump it up and you have a bright red light... push it further you have a powerful red light... meddle with it and sync them and you get red LASER... all same frequency and similar so-called "energy".... but the power is vastly different...

    ask you to stand under a dim red light you no problem right... ask you to stand under a powerful red light (those you see that keep food warm type) and you'll feel the heat... now, would you dare to stand in the way of an industrial powered red laser? same frequency and same so-called "energy" mah.
    Oh u meant it this way.Yes,pump it up and you get a more intense energy.But you can't add in the 'meddle with it and sync'.We're talking about pure wavelength and their relationship with freuqencies.
    If you're gonna throw in other stuff like 'meddling it and sync',there isn't a fair set up alrdy.
    Because you have allow engineering to alter the mechanism.
    I can 'meddle and sync' UV ray and in the end it's also more dangerous than the 'meddled and synced' IR.
    How can you compared UV and 'meddled and synced' IR?
    unless both are under the same fair condition,i would dismiss such claims because the entire set up is flawed -_-


    Amplitude say amplitude,don't say volume.
    If you mean amplitude then yes higher energy are being produced too.Another factor in play when it comes to alternating energy produce from a EMW.
    The word is not volume and accurately,isn't amplitude either.It's area under the peak and the peak meaning the amplitude.
    A high peak doesn't necessarily mean higher area beneath the peak.
    I place a piece of ceramic and look under the scanning electron microscope and say there are SMALL HOLES.
    What is small and what is holes?
    How small is small,1cm?0.1cm?Relative isn't it?Maybe to me 1cm is small but to the other scienctist,1cm is big.
    We're talking about microns and nanometre under the SEM.
    How to quantify?
    And what are holes?It's pores.
    Nothing wrong with my facts,you didn't use the right term.Terms are very important.

    Another thing,what do you mean by standing in the way of a "industrial powered laser"?
    I figure you were saying if i get burnt/killed anot.
    Again,you're not making any co-relation to the concept and understanding of RADIATION.
    A higher power IR laser doesn't mean it has high radiation.Have you seen scienctist few cm in front of a intense red laser,unprotected?
    IR at higher amplitude but same 'harmless' frequency produces more heat but higher radiation?
    We're talking about radiation,don't know why are you talking about a high intense IR which can burnt/kill.


    So what if i don't know how a microwave is build?It isn't related to how many 'emitters' there are anyway.It's the concept and understanding of wavelength.Microwave oven is just a technology.It is the science that keeps it working.
    We're talking about the science,not the technology.
    Last edited by Giorgio; 22nd January 2009 at 10:21 AM.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    My theory is... if you are afraid of being exposed to radiation... you are not human. LOL!

  10. #50

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgio View Post
    Oh u meant it this way.Yes,pump it up and you get a more intense energy.But you can't add in the 'meddle with it and sync'.We're talking about pure wavelength and their relationship with freuqencies.
    If you're gonna throw in other stuff like 'meddling it and sync',there isn't a fair set up alrdy.
    Because you have allow engineering to alter the mechanism.
    I can 'meddle and sync' UV ray and in the end it's also more dangerous than the 'meddled and synced' IR.
    How can you compared UV and 'meddled and synced' IR?
    unless both are under the same fair condition,i would dismiss such claims because the entire set up is flawed -_-


    Amplitude say amplitude,don't say volume.
    If you mean amplitude then yes higher energy are being produced too.Another factor in play when it comes to alternating energy produce from a EMW.
    The word is not volume and accurately,isn't amplitude either.It's area under the peak and the peak meaning the amplitude.
    A high peak doesn't necessarily mean higher area beneath the peak.
    Nothing wrong with my facts,you didn't use the right term.Terms are very important.

    Another thing,what do you mean by standing in the way of a "industrial powered laser"?
    I figure you were saying if i get burnt/killed anot.
    Again,you're not making any co-relation to the concept and understanding of RADIATION.
    A higher power IR laser doesn't mean it has high radiation.Have you seen scienctist few cm in front of a intense red laser,unprotected?
    Yes,it is dangerous to touch the laser but higher radiation?
    We're talking about radiation,don't know why are you talking about a high intense IR which can burnt/kill.


    So what if i don't know how a microwave is build?It isn't related to how many 'emitters' there are anyway.It's the concept and understanding of wavelength.Microwave oven is just a technology.It is the science that keeps it working.
    We're talking about the science,not the technology.


    sounds like finding a semantic backdoor.

    post like a walking encyclopedia... but dunnoe wat you are realli posting.

    I rest my case with the highlighted.
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  11. #51

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by hazmee View Post
    My theory is... if you are afraid of being exposed to radiation... you are not human. LOL!
    wah! kool theory!

    *copy tis theory in my notebook*
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  12. #52

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by hazmee View Post
    My theory is... if you are afraid of being exposed to radiation... you are not human. LOL!

    Yep.
    Infact,potassium has a very short half life and it decays in our body,emitting radiation.
    However,it is in equilibrium as we constantly consumed food with potassium.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post


    sounds like finding a semantic backdoor.

    post like a walking encyclopedia... but dunnoe wat you are realli posting.

    I rest my case with the highlighted.

    I don't need encyclopedia.All this are just basic.Play around with E=hf and you'll see all the relationship between wavelength and energy.
    I don't see any real case here anyway.The topic was on whether IR radiation/microwave can cause cancer.
    To cause cancer,you need very ionizing radiation.
    Just because you increase the amplitude[thereby increasing the area beneath the peak],it won't emit more radiation.
    More hotter yes but that's where it ends so i don't know why are you bringing in the scenario of being put infron of a high intense IR laser.
    Last edited by Giorgio; 22nd January 2009 at 10:33 AM.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    finally found about the biological effects of NON-ionising radiation.... everone seem to forget UV light is non-ionising.
    http://www.environmental-expert.com/...dproducttype=6
    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgio View Post
    To cause cancer,you need very ionizing radiation.
    U didn't even read what's under your nose when you quoted me

    I think that's all I'm replying liao... not point trying to irradiate and enlighten a lead-head. lol lol lol

    *edit* no insult intended... I juz like the puns there.
    Last edited by CYRN; 22nd January 2009 at 10:34 AM.
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  15. #55

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    In case anyone is interested to know why standing in front of a radar antenna is dangerous - they emit high energy pulses in a focussed beam. The peak pulse energy can be hundreds of times higher than what a microwave oven can produce. It is this high energy pulses that mess up your internal system - not cook it.

    The average energy emitted is relatively low -i.e. peak energy/time. I have placed a raw egg in front of the antenna and it doesn't get cook. Same reason we don't have roast pigeons in radar installations.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by Kermitfm View Post
    In case anyone is interested to know why standing in front of a radar antenna is dangerous - they emit high energy pulses in a focussed beam. The peak pulse energy can be hundreds of times higher than what a microwave oven can produce. It is this high energy pulses that mess up your internal system - not cook it.

    The average energy emitted is relatively low -i.e. peak energy/time. I have placed a raw egg in front of the antenna and it doesn't get cook. Same reason we don't have roast pigeons in radar installations.
    ya.. I'm curious too..

    what is being messed up. altho abviously we dun get roasted birds. I wonder if the birds are messed up in the first place?
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  17. #57

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by Kermitfm View Post
    In case anyone is interested to know why standing in front of a radar antenna is dangerous - they emit high energy pulses in a focussed beam. The peak pulse energy can be hundreds of times higher than what a microwave oven can produce. It is this high energy pulses that mess up your internal system - not cook it.

    The average energy emitted is relatively low -i.e. peak energy/time. I have placed a raw egg in front of the antenna and it doesn't get cook. Same reason we don't have roast pigeons in radar installations.
    another reason why we dun get cooked is because radars are designed to have maximize transparency thru atmosphere to maximize detection range.... meaning avoid water absorption frequencies.

    but what's the biological impact... I still got no idea.

    mabbe you should try a fertilised egg and monitor the outcome... altho there might be some ethical consideration.
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  18. #58

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    U didn't even read what's under your nose when you quoted me

    I think that's all I'm replying liao... not point trying to irradiate and enlighten a lead-head. lol lol lol

    *edit* no insult intended... I juz like the puns there.

    Why can't people admit when they're wrong

    You can't even quantify logically.I said from the start and will say it again,play fair in an experiment.
    As said,i don't know where you get that heating of cell=cancer.
    Funny.
    You don't understand and probaly wouldn't.Go play with E=hf first.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    It could the extensive exposure to radiation... You guys are hilarious!

  20. #60

    Default Re: Radiation from Router

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    another reason why we dun get cooked is because radars are designed to have maximize transparency thru atmosphere to maximize detection range.... meaning avoid water absorption frequencies.

    but what's the biological impact... I still got no idea.

    mabbe you should try a fertilised egg and monitor the outcome... altho there might be some ethical consideration.


    See what I mean?
    you talk about radiowave[radar] but you leave out the amplitude.
    Although microwave have the same range of wavelength,how can you alternate the amplitude as you like?
    An IR on notebook is very different from the IR in the microwave oven.
    Eg.IR may cover 400-700nm.
    In WHICH range are we talking about?
    Similarly,for microwave,they have a very wide range so which range are you talking about once again?
    In the different range,it gives different freq and thus different energy.Keep in mind of the amplitude too.
    How can you compare the microwave from a oven and HP?
    ALthough both are microwave,different frequency and differnt wavelength and different amplitude.

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