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Thread: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

  1. #21

    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    I think the facts are all there already...
    a) Service man found in coma after store duty - IN CAMP. Coma for 3 years now.
    b) Mindef paid expenses up to a certain level - $35k. ($500x12mthsx5yrs=$30k, and $5k)
    c) Big shot visited twice, not sure what was achieved.
    d) Actual medical fees -$133k.
    e) Father can't work because of heart problem (presumably need lots more medical fees), sister studying. Only mother is working, sole breadwinner, as teller, presumably wages not too high.

    Ya. I am sure lots and lots of additional information of top of the above is required 'to be fair to all parties', which has not been covered by the reporters!

  2. #22

    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by leejay View Post
    Clearly it is not during training. So is it because of the fall or because of viral infection?
    precisely.

    i think the family needs help, and should get help, and perhaps this lawsuit will help in that aspect, and it will be good no matter what i guess. the publicity will help in that aspect for sure.

    but pushing all the blame onto "national service" is in some sense ludicrous to me. it is a hard case to prove that anything he did with regards to his duties, or what was required of him as part of his service led to this unhappy incident. or are we saying that if a person is enlisted the state is wholly responsible for his safety and wellbeing? are you saying that an organisation should be responsible for every move an individual adult makes?
    Last edited by night86mare; 15th January 2009 at 11:57 AM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    define a service injury.

    it's easy to be emotional here, but let's be objective.
    as long as you are in camp, ie still in stand by mode, you are on duty. thats why one cannot anyhow book out during week day after office hour unless it is official night's off.

    my friend was about to book out as he has taken annual leave (regular), CSM activate him for guard duty as the guard com is on mc last minute, so kana last duty lor.
    Last edited by denniskee; 15th January 2009 at 12:20 PM.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    the first line, that is based on the second?
    yup. sorry, i added another statement at the back of the original 1st statement.
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  5. #25

    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    yup. sorry, i added another statement at the back of the original 1st statement.
    ah.

    well, my point was simply that it is hard to define what a service injury is.

    my own definition is that it is due to one's obligation to serve, that causes the injury/condition/disease, that is a service injury. with this in mind, given the description of the facts, it is a hard case to argue. a fall can happen anywhere; and it is literally impossible to explain where he might have contracted any infections from unless they are very specific and unique to particular conditions that are unlikely elsewhere.

    it all depends on what the official definition is, i guess.

    i would suppose that such a definition, if it existed (and it probably would).. would probably also take into account factors such as negligence (for example, if someone jumps off a tonner when it is moving, that is a different story).
    Last edited by night86mare; 15th January 2009 at 12:29 PM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    ah.

    well, my point was simply that it is hard to define what a service injury is.

    my own definition is that it is due to one's obligation to serve, that causes the injury/condition/disease, that is a service injury. with this in mind, given the description of the facts, it is a hard case to argue.

    it all depends on what the official definition is, i guess.
    well, depending on point of view like you said, obligation, enforced by law, still obligation?

    dont forget, all full time serviceman and including the reserve has to get exit permit to go oversea, that law. than can i say everyone is on standby? if so, can i say, if dont include the reserve, all full time serviceman is actively on 24/7 standby, ie on duty?

    during my ns days, due to certain condition, half of my platoon mate were activated back to camp for exercise just hours after they book out for weekends. off duty? hell no, its a 24/7 thingy, "obligation".

    in outside company, you can refuse to go back to company, most kana sack in worst case. can you do that with the defense ministery?

    also, look at point 7 of post 3 in this thread, i assume it is the SAF Core Value (find it too good to be true).

    7. Care for Soldiers

    company still pays $$ for last minute activation, or compensate annual leave. SAF give you "off", ie, prevalage, not entitlement, can be remove / cancel without notice.
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  7. #27

    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Another sad story for a NSF man who "life" to serve the "honorable" service.
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  8. #28

    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    well, depending on point of view like you said, obligation, enforced by law, still obligation?
    that's the problem, you see..

    i don't think there are many similar scenarios when it comes to national service, it is quite a unique situation.

    do you mean that you would view this case differently if the person involved were a regular?

    what if there is a theoretical scenario where the same occurs, but the person involved in such an incident is strictly voluntary?

  9. #29
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    that's the problem, you see..

    i don't think there are many similar scenarios when it comes to national service, it is quite a unique situation.

    do you mean that you would view this case differently if the person involved were a regular?

    what if there is a theoretical scenario where the same occurs, but the person involved in such an incident is strictly voluntary?
    thats why when one volunteers for voluntary works, depending on situations, may require the volunteer to sign indemnity form.

    as for ur 1st question, i cant answer on midef behalf, but what do u think? guess most of us has a number in our heart.
    Last edited by denniskee; 15th January 2009 at 12:48 PM.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    that's the problem, you see..

    i don't think there are many similar scenarios when it comes to national service, it is quite a unique situation.

    do you mean that you would view this case differently if the person involved were a regular?

    what if there is a theoretical scenario where the same occurs, but the person involved in such an incident is strictly voluntary?
    To me, as long the NSF man is in the camp then it will be the Mindef responsibility. But of cos not those self injures like - Commit suicide, fight etc.....

    Ya, it could be view differently cos they are the "staff"
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  11. #31

    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kwok View Post

    When those big shots come down and visit your broken leg, it's because likely it is some HOOHA, not because they CARE lah.
    How do you know? Have you broken a leg during NS and met them? At least I have seen their sincerity to my army friend. So you don't want them to visit you next time you kena injured? Okay lor, that's your own business. I don't really need to wake up. You should.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by leejay View Post
    How do you know? Have you broken a leg during NS and met them? At least I have seen their sincerity to my army friend. So you don't want them to visit you next time you kena injured? Okay lor, that's your own business. I don't really need to wake up. You should.
    Broke my leg ? haha.... I don't wanna say about it man..... Visit me ? Save it. Like it will make alot of differences.
    Wake Up ? I have already did. have u ?
    Last edited by David Kwok; 15th January 2009 at 01:31 PM.
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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    there are always alot of grey areas ... NS how to define on duty ?? when is off duty ?? how to define "during training" ? what is during training actually means... ?? is NS 24/7 thingie ?

    when i comes to money... even more complicated...
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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by leejay View Post
    How do you know? Have you broken a leg during NS and met them? At least I have seen their sincerity to my army friend. So you don't want them to visit you next time you kena injured? Okay lor, that's your own business. I don't really need to wake up. You should.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Kwok View Post
    Broke my leg ? haha.... I don't wanna say about it man..... Visit me ? Save it. Like it will make alot of differences.
    Wake Up ? I have already did. have u ?
    waking up would be the wish of Jeremy Tan's parents.
    have u seen the "light" yet?

  15. #35

    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by flowerpot View Post
    there are always alot of grey areas ... NS how to define on duty ?? when is off duty ?? how to define "during training" ? what is during training actually means... ?? is NS 24/7 thingie ?

    when i comes to money... even more complicated...
    Its like saying, if a person is being clubbed, the defence lawyer goes:
    "
    - Can the plaintiff describe the velocity of the hammer swing at the point of contact?
    - Can the plaintiff describe the number of nerves broken in the head?
    - Can the plaintiff tell us the exact second of the minute the hit was made?
    - Can the plaintiff proof that the fall is the result of the hit, and not an accident which the plaintill will fall anyway, with or without the hit.

    If you cannot give an answer to this, it's a grey area. "

  16. #36
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Yup, MINDEF Is really stretching this whole off duty thing. If off duty does it mean during the off duty hours I can do anything I want? No right? Hence they are splitting hairs to get out of compensation.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Yup, MINDEF Is really stretching this whole off duty thing. If off duty does it mean during the off duty hours I can do anything I want? No right? Hence they are splitting hairs to get out of compensation.
    Dare to critize garmment 'splitting hairs' ah? I think both of us gonna change address to a place where our families can only visit us once a month!

  18. #38
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    do be reminded that we are a photography forum

  19. #39

    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by AMediaLuz View Post
    Its like saying, if a person is being clubbed, the defence lawyer goes:
    "
    - Can the plaintiff describe the velocity of the hammer swing at the point of contact?
    - Can the plaintiff describe the number of nerves broken in the head?
    - Can the plaintiff tell us the exact second of the minute the hit was made?
    - Can the plaintiff proof that the fall is the result of the hit, and not an accident which the plaintill will fall anyway, with or without the hit.

    If you cannot give an answer to this, it's a grey area. "
    of course.

    guilt or responsibility has to be proven beyond "reasonable doubt".

    or would you have it any other way? that said, your questions are ridiculous and would have been thrown out of court.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Parents sue Mindef over compensation issues

    very sad.........how can the couple afford hospital bill?? 3 yrs.. omg....

    tian ah, where is the justice.....
    Objection !!!

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