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Thread: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

  1. #21
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    my guess it that you want to get min DOF from your lens. yes?

    some factors that affect

    1. focal lenght, the greater the focal length the lesser the DOF
    2. aperture, the greater the aperture number (eg. f22) the greater the DOF
    3. camera to subject distance, the lesser the distance the lesser the DOF


    and lastly to increase the background blur from your subject, the greater the subject to background distance the greater the background blur.

    i hope that this is not too technical to understand

  2. #22

    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by limetouch View Post
    I have been trying to get to grips with my D90 for a few months now.

    I am able to create bokeh with my D90 kit lense by zooming in and then using a wide aperture, like F5.6. How would I do it without zooming? I am not able to replicate as when I zoom. Can anyone advise?

    And not to be rude, don't ask me to google since that is the most convenient answer members give to TS. I already done that and could not get an answer.
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462601

  3. #23

    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    my guess it that you want to get min DOF from your lens. yes?

    some factors that affect

    1. focal lenght, the greater the focal length the lesser the DOF
    2. aperture, the greater the aperture number (eg. f22) the greater the DOF
    3. camera to subject distance, the lesser the distance the lesser the DOF


    and lastly to increase the background blur from your subject, the greater the subject to background distance the greater the background blur.

    i hope that this is not too technical to understand
    It isn't technical at all.

    About point number 2, you do mean lower aperture, higher F number right? Since the lower the F number, the higher the aperture.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Last edited by Clues; 13th January 2009 at 02:38 PM. Reason: Edited
    Mee Poh Man. "I am kampong man"

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Aperture is the size of the hole where light is admitted, the size of aperture (hole) is measured by f-stops. We don't term it as higher or lower aperture since it's a hole, but use the terms higher or lower f-stop, or smaller or bigger aperture. Hence your statement "...mean lower aperture, higher F number right" makes no sense. Anyway, ortega is comparing aperture/f-stop to DOF, not aperture to f-stop.


    How about meeting up with the Northeast Shooters! group and exchange techniques if you do stay around the area.
    Last edited by foxtwo; 13th January 2009 at 03:08 PM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by foxtwo View Post
    Aperture is the size of the hole where light is admitted, the size of aperture (hole) is measured by f-stops. We don't term it as higher or lower aperture since it's a hole, but use the terms higher or lower f-stop, or smaller or bigger aperture. Hence your statement "...mean lower aperture, higher F number right" makes no sense. Anyway, ortega is comparing aperture/f-stop to DOF, not aperture to f-stop.


    How about meeting up with the Northeast Shooters! group and exchange techniques if you do stay around the area.
    Thanks for the clarification and I do get what you mean. Let me rephrase myself: lower aperture = smaller aperture. I think I am very clear on the relationship between aperture and DOF, this thread should be closed now.

  7. #27
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    my guess it that you want to get min DOF from your lens. yes?

    some factors that affect

    1. focal lenght, the greater the focal length the lesser the DOF
    2. aperture, the greater the aperture number (eg. f22) the greater the DOF
    3. camera to subject distance, the lesser the distance the lesser the DOF


    and lastly to increase the background blur from your subject, the greater the subject to background distance the greater the background blur.

    i hope that this is not too technical to understand
    Quote Originally Posted by limetouch View Post
    It isn't technical at all.

    About point number 2, you do mean lower aperture, higher F number right? Since the lower the F number, the higher the aperture.
    greater the aperture number = f22
    smaller aperture number = f2.8

    these are just examples only

  8. #28
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by limetouch View Post
    Since the lower the F number, the higher the aperture.
    There is no 'high aperture'. Either you refer to the opening (wide open or close) or the aperture number (bigger or smaller) as ortega has stated. Be precise when using these terms as to avoid confusions.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    I have had a go with it.

    Is it not possible to have a shallow DOF while at a focal length of 18mm? Just curious. And I did what you guys said, to stand closer to the subject, that didn't help. I find myself only being able to get a shallow DOF if I am using a larger focal length.

  10. #30
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by limetouch View Post
    I have had a go with it.

    Is it not possible to have a shallow DOF while at a focal length of 18mm? Just curious. And I did what you guys said, to stand closer to the subject, that didn't help. I find myself only being able to get a shallow DOF if I am using a larger focal length.
    you can get shallow DOF with wider focal length, by get closer to your subject,

    ALL you need is to have a very small subject enable you to get very close with wideangle lens
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  11. #31

    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    you can get shallow DOF with wider focal length, by get closer to your subject,

    ALL you need is to have a very small subject enable you to get very close with wideangle lens
    How small of an object are we talking about?

  12. #32
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by limetouch View Post
    How small of an object are we talking about?
    pinky doll, you need a 4X close up filter to attach on your wide-angle lens.
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  13. #33
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    btw, tho you able to make your background out of focus, but since it is at a wide angle, you will still see lot of messy background in the picture.
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  14. #34

    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    From what I have gathered, is it safe to conclude that I can only achieve a shallow DOF without any filters by using a wide focal length?

  15. #35
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by limetouch View Post
    From what I have gathered, is it safe to conclude that I can only achieve a shallow DOF without any filters by using a wide focal length?
    you can get shallow DOF on a wide focal length, BUT the bokeh is TOTALLY different from what you see in a long focal length lens.

    you want nice, totally blur out, smooth, textureless, creamy bokeh? best use the longest focal length lens with widest aperture, and put your subject far far away from background, get as close as you can to your subject.
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  16. #36
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by limetouch View Post
    I have been trying to get to grips with my D90 for a few months now.

    I am able to create bokeh with my D90 kit lense by zooming in and then using a wide aperture, like F5.6. How would I do it without zooming? I am not able to replicate as when I zoom. Can anyone advise?

    And not to be rude, don't ask me to google since that is the most convenient answer members give to TS. I already done that and could not get an answer.
    if you could just Google "focal length and depth of field", and read some of the tutorials, it wouldn't take you very long to find the answers you are looking for.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  17. #37
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by limetouch View Post
    I have had a go with it.

    Is it not possible to have a shallow DOF while at a focal length of 18mm? Just curious. And I did what you guys said, to stand closer to the subject, that didn't help. I find myself only being able to get a shallow DOF if I am using a larger focal length.
    Quote Originally Posted by limetouch View Post
    From what I have gathered, is it safe to conclude that I can only achieve a shallow DOF without any filters by using a wide focal length?

    friend, it sounds to me like you still don't quite get it.
    Your 2 posts sound contradictory to each other.

    If you use a SHORT focal length (try to use standardized terms please) of approximately 18mm, your subject-camera distance needs to be MUCH less than the subject-background distance. That is to say, you have to be very close to the subject to achieve any significant blurring of the background. Catchlights' estimation of a 'pinky doll' is probably about right. Something like photographing a can drink from 40cm away, with a background at least 5m behind, is my guess. Such close focusing distance might be problematic, hence the suggestion of close-up filters.
    Last edited by ZerocoolAstra; 16th January 2009 at 01:51 PM.
    Exploring! :)

  18. #38
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    friend, it sounds to me like you still don't quite get it.
    Your 2 posts sound contradictory to each other.
    If you use a SHORT focal length (try to use standardized terms please) of approximately 18mm, your subject-camera distance needs to be MUCH less than the subject-background distance. That is to say, you have to be very close to the subject to achieve any significant blurring of the background. Catchlights' estimation of a 'pinky doll' is probably about right. Something like photographing a can drink from 40cm away, with a background at least 5m behind, is my guess. Such close focusing distance might be problematic, hence the suggestion of close-up filters.
    tested liao, I don't anyhow humtum when somethings that I'm not sure.
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  19. #39
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    If you use a SHORT focal length (try to use standardized terms please) of approximately 18mm, your subject-camera distance needs to be MUCH less than the subject-background distance. That is to say, you have to be very close to the subject to achieve any significant blurring of the background. Catchlights' estimation of a 'pinky doll' is probably about right. Something like photographing a can drink from 40cm away, with a background at least 5m behind, is my guess. Such close focusing distance might be problematic, hence the suggestion of close-up filters.
    I remember this experiment: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/dof2.shtml
    Very clear explanation in pictures about DOF, distances and amount of bokeh.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Creating Bokeh Without Zooming?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    friend, it sounds to me like you still don't quite get it.
    Your 2 posts sound contradictory to each other.

    If you use a SHORT focal length (try to use standardized terms please) of approximately 18mm, your subject-camera distance needs to be MUCH less than the subject-background distance. That is to say, you have to be very close to the subject to achieve any significant blurring of the background. Catchlights' estimation of a 'pinky doll' is probably about right. Something like photographing a can drink from 40cm away, with a background at least 5m behind, is my guess. Such close focusing distance might be problematic, hence the suggestion of close-up filters.
    Some of you guys say wider, some say shorter, so which is the standardized term?

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