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Thread: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

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    Member Lord Soth's Avatar
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    Default Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    I just caught Red Cliff 2 over the weekend.

    Despite the hype, I'm not that impressed because they changed at least 40% of the original story.

    I left the theatre with a bitter taste in the mouth and with the feeling that it was turned into a rather mindless Chinese Kung Fu war movie with plenty of explosions.

    No major spoilers here but little nonsensical things like

    1. Liu Bei jumping and flying around really spoiled the movie for me.

    Granted Liu Bei could fight as he did hold off Lu Bu along with Guan Yu and Zhang Fei in the original story but he was never that kind of a "superhuman" warrior.

    2. Also, the famous pardon of Cao Cao by Guan Yu was changed by the director!

    3. Lots and lots more but not listed here if case you want to watch the movie

    It was a combination of these nonsense which spoiled my enjoyment of the show.

    But to be fair to the director, it was not 100% bad. The famous scene whereby Kong Ming borrowed 100k arrows from Cao Cao was masterfully rendered.
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    My friends were complaining, the movie didn't follow the stories. Eg. Pang Tong didn't appear at all

    Overall, by 3/4 of the movie i was trying to stay awake (12.30am movie...haha), the battle scences started to be bit repetitive by then. The cai mao and zhang yun executions was bit of a 'wake up' segment. Haha
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    Senior Member hanqiang1011's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Dear all,

    I beg to differ. This is my 2 cents worth of opinion on this 2 films:

    ''Romance of the 3 Kingdoms'' is based on the ''Record of the 3 Kingdoms'' by Zhou Yu. The latter is a historical record. In addition Sima Quan also recorded the events. The "Romance" is basically a novelization, meaning "romanticization" on actual events. The ROTK is actually written in the 14th Century during the Ming Dynasty, more than a millennia after the 3 Kingdoms occurred. When John Woo's directing this film, he chosed to follow some events happened in the ''Record of the 3 Kingdoms''.

    Personally, I think the battle scenes are well-fought and simply marvellous and well-constructed. The battle scenes are almost comparative to those of Lord of the Ring: Part 2 & 3, where the latter used mostly CGI. Thus, I view this movie more as an epic production rather than historical records. Perhaps now let's see this ''Red Cliff series'' as a movie by itself but not as the series of Romance of the 3 Kingdoms or from any actual events happened in 3 Kingdoms' history. If you guys want a 100% historical accuracy, then I think it might be better of watching a documentary, isnt it?

    My verdict --- Its an epic. Never in the history of Asian movie industry has filmed movies of this magnitude. To film movies of this calibre required massive amount of investments and experienced crews. Partly beause of his years of experience in the movie industry as well as Hollywood filming experiences, I am able to see the emerge of an oriential movie as well as western style of filming effects. Every movie does have its drawbacks. The only flaw in this movie is that the naval battle was not as great as those being fought on land. However, despite this minor flaw, I am giving this movie a 4 stars out of 5.

    Last edited by hanqiang1011; 11th January 2009 at 03:20 PM.

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    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    record of the 3 kingdoms(the historical documentation) is documented by chen shou(he used to be a minister working for Shu-Han, under the Shu-Han king, Liu Chan).

    as for romance of the 3 kingdom, it is but a novel written and based on the history of the 3 kingdoms and the author is luo guan zhong.


    this movie is... based on a mish-mash of history, novel as well as creative input by the director and gang.
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    record of the 3 kingdoms(the historical documentation) is documented by chen shou(he used to be a minister working for Shu-Han, under the Shu-Han king, Liu Chan).

    as for romance of the 3 kingdom, it is but a novel written and based on the history of the 3 kingdoms and the author is luo guan zhong.


    this movie is... based on a mish-mash of history, novel as well as creative input by the director and gang.


    very impressive coming from a 18 yo.

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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by hanqiang1011 View Post
    Dear all,

    I beg to differ. This is my 2 cents worth of opinion on this 2 films:

    ''Romance of the 3 Kingdoms'' is based on the ''Record of the 3 Kingdoms'' by Zhou Yu. The latter is a historical record. In addition Sima Quan also recorded the events. The "Romance" is basically a novelization, meaning "romanticization" on actual events. The ROTK is actually written in the 14th Century during the Ming Dynasty, more than a millennia after the 3 Kingdoms occurred. When John Woo's directing this film, he chosed to follow some events happened in the ''Record of the 3 Kingdoms''.

    Personally, I think the battle scenes are well-fought and simply marvellous and well-constructed. The battle scenes are almost comparative to those of Lord of the Ring: Part 2 & 3, where the latter used mostly CGI. Thus, I view this movie more as an epic production rather than historical records. Perhaps now let's see this ''Red Cliff series'' as a movie by itself but not as the series of Romance of the 3 Kingdoms or from any actual events happened in 3 Kingdoms' history. If you guys want a 100% historical accuracy, then I think it might be better of watching a documentary, isnt it?

    My verdict --- Its an epic. Never in the history of Asian movie industry has filmed movies of this magnitude. To film movies of this calibre required massive amount of investments and experienced crews. Partly beause of his years of experience in the movie industry as well as Hollywood filming experiences, I am able to see the emerge of an oriential movie as well as western style of filming effects. Every movie does have its drawbacks. The only flaw in this movie is that the naval battle was not as great as those being fought on land. However, despite this minor flaw, I am giving this movie a 4 stars out of 5.

    Yes good points there.


    I love the movie, don't mine watching it a few times

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    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    very impressive coming from a 18 yo.


    ah boy here got watch the yi zhong tian on channel 8 last time on sundays as he discusses abt the 3 kingdom era, so i learn abit from him.


    i always am fascinated by the history of China!


    this is a great film if u can cast away the ... inaccuracy of the history part. jus enjoy it la!


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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    this is a great film if u can cast away the ... inaccuracy of the history part. jus enjoy it la!

    That's the way to enjoy a movie. Want accuracy in history, watch a documentary.

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    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    That's the way to enjoy a movie. Want accuracy in history, watch a documentary.
    good point there. nice pyrotechnics!!!
    Last edited by Cheesecake; 11th January 2009 at 03:57 PM.
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01 View Post
    ...........

    I love the movie, don't mine watching it a few times
    I did enjoy the 1st movie and watched it twice.

    However, I can't say the same for part 2.

    I'm into music too and also found the musical score and theme song of the 1st movie to be much better (and meaningful) than the 2nd one.
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    .................

    zhao zilong!!!
    BTW, the other recent movie with Andy Lau playing the role of Zhao Yun was quite entertaining too.

    Yes, I agree that the novels were never a true depiction of Chinese history.

    I think that it is the older generation (like me -> I'm starting to feel my age now..... hee hee) who have been exposed to the original story from the classic text since young, who would prefer the Luo GuanZhong version of ROTK events.

    It's just like another Chinese classic Outlaws of the Marsh. In true Chinese history, the 108 warriors and heroes were from different dynasties. Imagine how off the charts (and weird) if someone made a movie comprising of 50+ heroes just for the sake of historical accuracy????? Or maybe have the villian Gao Qiu knowing Kung Fu and having a death match with Lin Chong???? Maybe I should avoid giving John Woo more hollywood ideas.....
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    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Soth View Post
    BTW, the other recent movie with Andy Lau playing the role of Zhao Yun was quite entertaining too.

    Yes, I agree that the novels were never a true depiction of Chinese history.

    I think that it is the older generation (like me -> I'm starting to feel my age now..... hee hee) who have been exposed to the original story from the classic text since young, who would prefer the Luo GuanZhong version of ROTK events.

    It's just like another Chinese classic Outlaws of the Marsh. In true Chinese history, the 108 warriors and heroes were from different dynasties. Imagine how off the charts (and weird) if someone made a movie comprising of 50+ heroes just for the sake of historical accuracy????? Or maybe have the villian Gao Qiu knowing Kung Fu and having a death match with Lin Chong???? Maybe I should avoid giving John Woo more hollywood ideas.....
    ya, the movie with andy lau as zilong is good. i think i like it becos of maggie Q only. HAHAHAHA

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    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    i think hu jun plays the part of zilong much beta than andy lau. very heroic and very macho. andy lau has his heroic moments la, but i think he looks too handsome and maybe he does not exude the kind of heroic aura like hu jun.



    i really hate the armour donned by andy lau's character in the resurrection of the dragon. terok. reminds me of samurais.
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Soth View Post
    I did enjoy the 1st movie and watched it twice.

    However, I can't say the same for part 2.

    I'm into music too and also found the musical score and theme song of the 1st movie to be much better (and meaningful) than the 2nd one.
    Unlike watching a documentary, when I watch a movie it was purely for entertainment. Hence I am not bothered much with factual accuracy and technicality. In that way I can really enjoy a good movie like being back to being child again.

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    Senior Member phoakm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Watched the movie on the first day release. I like the plot and war scene is fantastic.
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    Senior Member hanqiang1011's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post


    ah boy here got watch the yi zhong tian on channel 8 last time on sundays as he discusses abt the 3 kingdom era, so i learn abit from him.


    i always am fascinated by the history of China!


    this is a great film if u can cast away the ... inaccuracy of the history part. jus enjoy it la!


    zhao zilong!!!
    Sorry TS, a bit off topic...

    Cheesecake: If you are a China's history fanatics, then get ready, for John Woo's next film. I have read from a website during the interview after the Red Cliff part 1, he expressed his interested in filming a ''China's War of Liberation'' movie. I think due to the ''China factor'', mostly it wont interest westerners as much as Red Cliff, but certainly with his expressed of interest, the Chinese PLA will definately fund his film.

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    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by hanqiang1011 View Post
    Sorry TS, a bit off topic...

    Cheesecake: If you are a China's history fanatics, then get ready, for John Woo's next film. I have read from a website during the interview after the Red Cliff part 1, he expressed his interested in filming a ''China's War of Liberation'' movie. I think due to the ''China factor'', mostly it wont interest westerners as much as Red Cliff, but certainly with his expressed of interest, the Chinese PLA will definately fund his film.


    tat is... ... very patriotic.
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Soth View Post
    2. Also, the famous pardon of Cao Cao by Guan Yu was changed by the director!
    This part never really happened in history.

    According to Romance of 3 Kingdom, Guan Yu was supposed to ambuse Cao Cao at HuaRongDao, then Guan Yu pardon Cao Cao and let him off but in actual fact, this part never did happened in history.

    Cao Cao did escape through HuaRongDao, but there was no ambuse troop.
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    i think hu jun plays the part of zilong much beta than andy lau. very heroic and very macho. andy lau has his heroic moments la, but i think he looks too handsome and maybe he does not exude the kind of heroic aura like hu jun.



    i really hate the armour donned by andy lau's character in the resurrection of the dragon. terok. reminds me of samurais.
    Actually, the armour donned by the chinese soldiers in the film are korean-inspired. Why? Cause one of the main sponsors/investor of that film is a large korean company. So some of the "modern influences" like this is shown in the film.

    How i know such things? Had an elective on chinese cinemas and my lecturer pointed out this fact...interesting right?
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    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Cliff 2 Not as Good as the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by tkbonz View Post
    Actually, the armour donned by the chinese soldiers in the film are korean-inspired. Why? Cause one of the main sponsors/investor of that film is a large korean company. So some of the "modern influences" like this is shown in the film.

    How i know such things? Had an elective on chinese cinemas and my lecturer pointed out this fact...interesting right?
    ok la, now i knw why the armour look so un-china-like.
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