wat's the flash distance of 602z?

dnka · 23rd September 2003

pardon me if the qn is not phrase properly

took some picts of my colleagues using the SP Portrait mode but most appear under-exposed

. how far shld we be from the subject to get a correctly exposed pict if we are using the internal flash?

mpenza · 23rd September 2003

how far away is the subject from the camera? if it's around 5m or less, the camera should light up properly.

One usual problem occurs when the fingers come on top of the camera and block the flash.

yowch · 23rd September 2003

If you push the flash power to +0.6, you should be able to get to 5m at ISO400.

At ISO100, with normal flash power, the flash good up to 2.5m.

mpenza · 23rd September 2003

Originally Posted by yowch

If you push the flash power to +0.6, you should be able to get to 5m at ISO400.

At ISO100, with normal flash power, the flash good up to 2.5m.

erm... there's no ISO 100 for the camera.

Flash range for ISO200. Multiply by 1.4x for ever doubling of ISO.
• Wide: 0.2 - 4.7 m (7.8 in - 15.4 ft)
• Tele: 0.2 - 3.0 m (7.8 in - 9.8 ft)

yowch · 23rd September 2003

Originally Posted by mpenza

erm... there's no ISO 100 for the camera.

Flash range for ISO200. Multiply by 1.4x for ever doubling of ISO.
• Wide: 0.2 - 4.7 m (7.8 in - 15.4 ft)
• Tele: 0.2 - 3.0 m (7.8 in - 9.8 ft)

OOOPS, too much maths! Sorry, I worked on the Flash guide number.

You are right, no ISO100, of course. ISO160 is about 3m worth of flash power from the built-in flash.

dnka · 24th September 2003

thanks mpenza and yowch for the advises and info.

i was definitely less than 5m away from the subject. i'll probably try again today with higher ISO and/or +0.6.

thanks again.

toasty · 25th September 2003

The aperture also affects the working distance of the flash. Don't know what mode you were in, but if you were in aperture priority or manual and the the aperture was too small, that could also make your pictures turn out dark.

Load up some of the photos that are too dark and right click on them in ACDC and look at the properties. You can see what aperture and shutter speed were used, the ISO, whether the flash fired or not etc... Check the parameters. Often the reason for an incorrectly exposed picture can be found there.

solomon76 · 2nd October 2003

anyone used an external flash on the 602z b4 ?
what are the disadvantage of having a non-ttl hot shoe ?
thnx

modenaslim · 3rd October 2003

Originally Posted by solomon76

anyone used an external flash on the 602z b4 ?
what are the disadvantage of having a non-ttl hot shoe ?
thnx

a lot of 602z users here using external flash i think... I'm one of them.. using the metz32z-1, i like it becoz it is small and light, i dun like becoz the it is stil not powerful enough...

Disadvantages of having non-TTL ar?

when ur objects is sometimes far sometimes close, then ur pic will sometimes over-ex and sometimes under-ex lor... need to keep adjusting the flash zoom.
I encounter such prob becoz so far i only shoot fashion an stage performance photos. As the models and ppl on the stage are of disfferent distances away from you....

correct me if I'm wrong... still have to learn a LOT before stepping into DSLR

modenaslim · 3rd October 2003

Questions i would like to ask here....hope 602z+Metz users could clear my doubt.

when set ur camera external flash to "on",
set the camera mode to "Arperture priority"
shooting in low light condition/ indoor
set to f2.8.
your shutter speed most probably varies from (6,12) due to NON_TTL of your hot-shoe....
And if ur object is moving (fashion show), u will always get blurrrrr pics

conclusion:shooting in A mode is in-appropriate right? becoz the hot shoe is non TTL and it always give u slow speed.

Solution: ??
What i did was
set the camera mode to "M"
adjust the shuttle speed to about (40-80)
arperture bo chap(normally set to f2.8)
increase the ISO to 200 or 400
and shoot....

is this the corrrect way of shooting??? hmm...??

I saw mpenza's SFW shots using 602z and compared to mine... wasai..

I still far behind mpenza ler...

really must learn from him...

and i dun know how he manage to get nice shoot??
or the different is becoz of the flash?? he's using SB80 if I'm not wrong...

mpenza · 3rd October 2003

I'm also learning too. just to share the settings I use with external flash:

1. use aperture priority when I want the background to be properly exposed (via the ambient light). alternatively, I use aperture priority with exposure compensation (e.g. -1 EV or -1 2/3 EV) to get faster shutter speeds (but darker background). using aperture priority will be especially useful when it's bright and outdoors.

2. use manual mode when I intend for the flash to be the main source of lighting or I do not want the shutter speeds to vary due to changing light conditions. for this, I usually set the shutter speed to 1/250s or faster. The faster the shutter speed, the darker the background and the harsher the subject will look.

A stronger flash will definitely help when the subject is rather far away (e.g. at the SFW). You may also need to compensate the flash exposure (e.g. set the camera to f/2.8 and flash to f/4.0 for a +1EV flash exposure, or set the same aperture but vary the ISO for camera and flash) for locations without nearby white walls/ceilings that minimise light loss. If i remember correctly, for SFW, I use ~+2EV flash compensation and fixed the shutter speed at ~1/250s or so. Aperture varies between f3.6 to f4.5 depending on the subject distance.

yowch · 3rd October 2003

I shoot with a Yashica flash, cheap, but light and with full swivel and tilt.

I use Manual mode, Shutter 1/30, and adjust aperture to suit the distance. You can calculate based on f = (flash guide number / distance ), and distance is normally in meters. Beware that flash guide number is ISO dependent.

Because I am often on bounce (either wall, roof or card), I will not be able to calculate the distance properly, so I'll fire a test shot and adjust my aperture to decide on the 'proper' exposure.

modenaslim · 4th October 2003

Originally Posted by mpenza

I'm also learning too. just to share the settings I use with external flash:

1. use aperture priority when I want the background to be properly exposed (via the ambient light). alternatively, I use aperture priority with exposure compensation (e.g. -1 EV or -1 2/3 EV) to get faster shutter speeds (but darker background). using aperture priority will be especially useful when it's bright and outdoors.

2. use manual mode when I intend for the flash to be the main source of lighting or I do not want the shutter speeds to vary due to changing light conditions. for this, I usually set the shutter speed to 1/250s or faster. The faster the shutter speed, the darker the background and the harsher the subject will look.

A stronger flash will definitely help when the subject is rather far away (e.g. at the SFW). You may also need to compensate the flash exposure (e.g. set the camera to f/2.8 and flash to f/4.0 for a +1EV flash exposure, or set the same aperture but vary the ISO for camera and flash) for locations without nearby white walls/ceilings that minimise light loss. If i remember correctly, for SFW, I use ~+2EV flash compensation and fixed the shutter speed at ~1/250s or so. Aperture varies between f3.6 to f4.5 depending on the subject distance.

woo.. thanks thanks.. very pro-way of explaining techniques...
I never try the EV exposure before one.. now i know one more function liao.. hahaha...

toonstar · 9th November 2003

Hi..i need advise on the white balance for the S602Z. Look a this pic.

and this

The first one was without the flash and the second was with flash. I prefer the first one with the orange colour. The 2nd one with flash (metz z-1) is too cold and hard. I was fiddling around with the flash and white balance. Do you guys know if the 1st pic can be achieved with the flash? There are a lot of symbols for the white balance in the 602 settings. Which one refers to which?

Also, i played around with the settings esp on aperture and shutter. What is a good shutter speed to prevent hand shake. I find that when i shut off the flash in order to have the warm colour in the first pic, i have to enlarge the aperture (F2.8), but when i compensate with a fast shutter, the pic is still too dark, so i slow down the shutter, resulting in motion blur. Example:

Plz help. Regards and thanks for helping a newbie.

toonstar · 12th November 2003

upz. Anyone can help with the flash and white balance queries above?

mpenza · 12th November 2003

flash is equivalent to "sunlight" and this will definitely affect the colors of the scene. if you want the original colors of the scene back, either do it without flash (may need to use higher ISO, e.g. 400, and larger aperture, e.g. f/2.8, to have a fast enough shutter speed) or use slow sync flash that will capture more of the scene's original lighting (but effect will be less than without flash). You can also play around by using "less" flash (via flash compensation) and slower shutter speed and try to get a proper exposure.

You can also play around with photoshop to change the colors.

yowch · 12th November 2003

You can also try to change the white balance. For a yellow scene, do a manual white balance (refer to manual) while pointing at a blue wall which will reflect the flash onto your lens, you'll be getting warmer (more yellow) photos.

mpenza · 12th November 2003

Originally Posted by toonstar

Also, i played around with the settings esp on aperture and shutter. What is a good shutter speed to prevent hand shake.

Generally, people can handhold the camera with little camera shake if the shutter speed is faster than 1/focal length. Of course, good techniques (e.g. depressing the shutter button gently and a smooth downward motion and not releasesing the shutter button until the pic is taken, tucking in shoulders for more support) could help you handhold the camera properly at even lower shutter speeds.

Originally Posted by toonstar

I find that when i shut off the flash in order to have the warm colour in the first pic, i have to enlarge the aperture (F2.8), but when i compensate with a fast shutter, the pic is still too dark, so i slow down the shutter, resulting in motion blur. Example:

That's how camera works. You need the right combinations of ISO, aperture and shutter speed to get the proper exposure. If you change one, you need to compensate by changing other settings (the camera does this automatically under aperture priority/shutter priority). If the scene is really dark and setting the largest aperture and using the highest ISO you're comfortable with does not give you a fast enough shutter speed, use support (e.g. monopod or tripod and use self-timer/remote to trigger the camera) or use additional lighting (e.g. flash).

toonstar · 12th November 2003

Originally Posted by mpenza

flash is equivalent to "sunlight" and this will definitely affect the colors of the scene. if you want the original colors of the scene back, either do it without flash (may need to use higher ISO, e.g. 400, and larger aperture, e.g. f/2.8, to have a fast enough shutter speed) or use slow sync flash that will capture more of the scene's original lighting (but effect will be less than without flash). You can also play around by using "less" flash (via flash compensation) and slower shutter speed and try to get a proper exposure.

You can also play around with photoshop to change the colors.

May i know the settings for slow sync flash for the S602Z with the metz Z-1? Flash compensation too? Thanks.

Zerstorer · 12th November 2003

Just set your camera to aperture priority with external flash set to on. Set external flash Auto mode to the same aperture you selected.

This will give you the basic settings for slow-sync mode using external flash on the 602, you can then adjust from there to get the optimum image that you like.

Tip: If you experiment with custom white balance, you can adjust the apparent colour of your flash light. e.g if you use a very very light blue tinted card to calibrate your custom white balance, you will be able to take flash exposures which are warmer in colour.

23rd September 2003	#1
dnka Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 307	wat's the flash distance of 602z? pardon me if the qn is not phrase properly took some picts of my colleagues using the SP Portrait mode but most appear under-exposed . how far shld we be from the subject to get a correctly exposed pict if we are using the internal flash?

23rd September 2003	#2
mpenza Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 13,397	how far away is the subject from the camera? if it's around 5m or less, the camera should light up properly. One usual problem occurs when the fingers come on top of the camera and block the flash. Last edited by mpenza; 23rd September 2003 at 03:28 PM.

3rd October 2003	#11
mpenza Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 13,397	I'm also learning too. just to share the settings I use with external flash: 1. use aperture priority when I want the background to be properly exposed (via the ambient light). alternatively, I use aperture priority with exposure compensation (e.g. -1 EV or -1 2/3 EV) to get faster shutter speeds (but darker background). using aperture priority will be especially useful when it's bright and outdoors. 2. use manual mode when I intend for the flash to be the main source of lighting or I do not want the shutter speeds to vary due to changing light conditions. for this, I usually set the shutter speed to 1/250s or faster. The faster the shutter speed, the darker the background and the harsher the subject will look. A stronger flash will definitely help when the subject is rather far away (e.g. at the SFW). You may also need to compensate the flash exposure (e.g. set the camera to f/2.8 and flash to f/4.0 for a +1EV flash exposure, or set the same aperture but vary the ISO for camera and flash) for locations without nearby white walls/ceilings that minimise light loss. If i remember correctly, for SFW, I use ~+2EV flash compensation and fixed the shutter speed at ~1/250s or so. Aperture varies between f3.6 to f4.5 depending on the subject distance. Last edited by mpenza; 3rd October 2003 at 02:55 PM.

9th November 2003	#14
toonstar New Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 45	Hi..i need advise on the white balance for the S602Z. Look a this pic. and this The first one was without the flash and the second was with flash. I prefer the first one with the orange colour. The 2nd one with flash (metz z-1) is too cold and hard. I was fiddling around with the flash and white balance. Do you guys know if the 1st pic can be achieved with the flash? There are a lot of symbols for the white balance in the 602 settings. Which one refers to which? Also, i played around with the settings esp on aperture and shutter. What is a good shutter speed to prevent hand shake. I find that when i shut off the flash in order to have the warm colour in the first pic, i have to enlarge the aperture (F2.8), but when i compensate with a fast shutter, the pic is still too dark, so i slow down the shutter, resulting in motion blur. Example: Plz help. Regards and thanks for helping a newbie. Last edited by toonstar; 9th November 2003 at 11:47 AM.

12th November 2003	#16
mpenza Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 13,397	flash is equivalent to "sunlight" and this will definitely affect the colors of the scene. if you want the original colors of the scene back, either do it without flash (may need to use higher ISO, e.g. 400, and larger aperture, e.g. f/2.8, to have a fast enough shutter speed) or use slow sync flash that will capture more of the scene's original lighting (but effect will be less than without flash). You can also play around by using "less" flash (via flash compensation) and slower shutter speed and try to get a proper exposure. You can also play around with photoshop to change the colors. Last edited by mpenza; 12th November 2003 at 08:04 AM.

23rd September 2003	#3
yowch Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Singapore, Redhill Posts: 1,063	If you push the flash power to +0.6, you should be able to get to 5m at ISO400. At ISO100, with normal flash power, the flash good up to 2.5m.

24th September 2003	#6
dnka Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 307	thanks mpenza and yowch for the advises and info. i was definitely less than 5m away from the subject. i'll probably try again today with higher ISO and/or +0.6. thanks again.

25th September 2003	#7
toasty Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Singapore, near NUS Posts: 367	The aperture also affects the working distance of the flash. Don't know what mode you were in, but if you were in aperture priority or manual and the the aperture was too small, that could also make your pictures turn out dark. Load up some of the photos that are too dark and right click on them in ACDC and look at the properties. You can see what aperture and shutter speed were used, the ISO, whether the flash fired or not etc... Check the parameters. Often the reason for an incorrectly exposed picture can be found there.

2nd October 2003	#8
solomon76 Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 631	anyone used an external flash on the 602z b4 ? what are the disadvantage of having a non-ttl hot shoe ? thnx

3rd October 2003	#10
modenaslim Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Yishun Broadway KopiDiam Posts: 704	Questions i would like to ask here....hope 602z+Metz users could clear my doubt. when set ur camera external flash to "on", set the camera mode to "Arperture priority" shooting in low light condition/ indoor set to f2.8. your shutter speed most probably varies from (6,12) due to NON_TTL of your hot-shoe.... And if ur object is moving (fashion show), u will always get blurrrrr pics conclusion:shooting in A mode is in-appropriate right? becoz the hot shoe is non TTL and it always give u slow speed. Solution: ?? What i did was set the camera mode to "M" adjust the shuttle speed to about (40-80) arperture bo chap(normally set to f2.8) increase the ISO to 200 or 400 and shoot.... is this the corrrect way of shooting??? hmm...?? I saw mpenza's SFW shots using 602z and compared to mine... wasai.. I still far behind mpenza ler... really must learn from him... and i dun know how he manage to get nice shoot?? or the different is becoz of the flash?? he's using SB80 if I'm not wrong...

12th November 2003	#20
Zerstorer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,610	Just set your camera to aperture priority with external flash set to on. Set external flash Auto mode to the same aperture you selected. This will give you the basic settings for slow-sync mode using external flash on the 602, you can then adjust from there to get the optimum image that you like. Tip: If you experiment with custom white balance, you can adjust the apparent colour of your flash light. e.g if you use a very very light blue tinted card to calibrate your custom white balance, you will be able to take flash exposures which are warmer in colour.