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Thread: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

  1. #1

    Default NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    Hi everyone, Happy New Year !

    Need your advice again, this time on which monitor to buy.

    I'm in the process of replacing my old 17 inch LCD, and has got 2 main choices in mind.

    (1) The Dell 2408WFP which is selling at a good discount now. As of today, it sells at $906.01 with 5 years warranty. I guess with the poor economic conditions, Dell is offering this good price even without the PC Show.

    (2) The newly launched NEC P221, which seems to be a very good choice too - and I don't mind the slightly smaller size, just 2 inches smaller only. It comes with 3 year warranty, and price is expected to be around $900.
    NEC P221W - A New S-PVA 22" Screen-The screen covers 96% of the AdobeRGB colour space, offers a 10-bit internal LUT. The P221W is using the same Samsung S-PVA panel (LTM220M3). Website: http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/P...5-880367d76bfa

    The NEC offers 10 bits internal LUT, and this is something which bothers me. You see, I use the Spyder 3 Elite, which does not allow me to calibrate the NEC hardware directly. The ideal solution (from what I've read so far), is to use the NEC SpectraView II calibration kit, which is bundled with NEC's own color sensor. Refer to page 2 of this NEC brochure: http://www.necdisplay.com/cms/docume...chure_1008.pdf

    If I choose the NEC P221, and use back my Spyder 3 Elite, will I be able to get accurate results? Or is it necessary to use NEC's native SpectraView II cum their own sensor? I'm concerned about this because I came across some forums which warns about something called "greater colorimetric distance' due to anything higher than 8 bits. It's something like, when calibrating a 10 bits, 12 bits, or higher bits LCD, the results may be less accurate with 3rd party calibration kits like Spyer 3, x-Rite Eye One, etc.. (not sure if this is true )

    Frankly, if I can get accurate calibration results on the NEC P221 with my Spyder 3 Elite, I am tempted to go for the NEC, partly because I know they make good quality monitors.

    Hope someone can offer sound advice.

  2. #2
    Moderator chngpe01's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    I find the Dell extremely difficult to calibrate. If got a chance I will get rid of it for another. Not sure if others have prob calibrating the Dell

  3. #3

    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    Quote Originally Posted by humbee View Post
    Hi everyone, Happy New Year !

    Need your advice again, this time on which monitor to buy.

    I'm in the process of replacing my old 17 inch LCD, and has got 2 main choices in mind.

    (1) The Dell 2408WFP which is selling at a good discount now. As of today, it sells at $906.01 with 5 years warranty. I guess with the poor economic conditions, Dell is offering this good price even without the PC Show.

    (2) The newly launched NEC P221, which seems to be a very good choice too - and I don't mind the slightly smaller size, just 2 inches smaller only. It comes with 3 year warranty, and price is expected to be around $900.
    NEC P221W - A New S-PVA 22" Screen-The screen covers 96% of the AdobeRGB colour space, offers a 10-bit internal LUT. The P221W is using the same Samsung S-PVA panel (LTM220M3). Website: http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/P...5-880367d76bfa

    The NEC offers 10 bits internal LUT, and this is something which bothers me. You see, I use the Spyder 3 Elite, which does not allow me to calibrate the NEC hardware directly. The ideal solution (from what I've read so far), is to use the NEC SpectraView II calibration kit, which is bundled with NEC's own color sensor. Refer to page 2 of this NEC brochure: http://www.necdisplay.com/cms/docume...chure_1008.pdf

    If I choose the NEC P221, and use back my Spyder 3 Elite, will I be able to get accurate results? Or is it necessary to use NEC's native SpectraView II cum their own sensor? I'm concerned about this because I came across some forums which warns about something called "greater colorimetric distance' due to anything higher than 8 bits. It's something like, when calibrating a 10 bits, 12 bits, or higher bits LCD, the results may be less accurate with 3rd party calibration kits like Spyer 3, x-Rite Eye One, etc.. (not sure if this is true )

    Frankly, if I can get accurate calibration results on the NEC P221 with my Spyder 3 Elite, I am tempted to go for the NEC, partly because I know they make good quality monitors.

    Hope someone can offer sound advice.
    The best is to put them side by side but I know it's impossible unless there are owners who owns this 2 monitors are their work place or at home who is willing to show it to you.

    For me, DELL would still be my preferred choice not because it has 5 year extended warranty but because of the colours that is producing is quite accurate. You know what, I use to calibrate my monitors ( I have 2 x DELL 2408WFP and one 20 inch DELL) at home but I found that the original profile (factory settings are quite accurate). I am using the Spyder 1Elite but I am going to auction it off as I found no use it of now. I have been using the 24 inch for 2 years liao......

    My company is also using this DELL monitors (me and my designers are using it as well and we have 20 of those) and we don't really have time to calibrate 20 monitors every month as the colours are quite accurate.

    AFAIK, I think DELL buys their monitors from LG or Samsung.

    As for the NEC, it's also a bit diffficult to compare as it has a different profile than the DELL.

    DELL screen res is 1920 X 1200 compared to NEC which is 1680 x 1050, brightness is 400cd/m and NEC is only 300cd/m. 2 inch of screen size is still a lot differance.

  4. #4

    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01 View Post
    I find the Dell extremely difficult to calibrate. If got a chance I will get rid of it for another. Not sure if others have prob calibrating the Dell
    Bro, seriously speaking it's not difficult but after my last calibration (which was months ago), I found the original stock colours are quite accurate.

    I found that this monitors need to warm up at least 30-45 mins before you actually use it.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    You can confirm if the LCD panels are in fact exactly the same. If they are, then there is technically no difference between the 2 monitors. Just to share though, Dell does change the LCD panel used in their monitors from time to time, even within the same model number. Last time it happened to me. I ordered the Dell monitor and I read that they had recently switched to S-PVA instead of S-IPS panels. I tried to call them to request that they send me the one with the S-IPS panel, but they ended up still giving me the S-PVA one.

    For those who want more info on all this, can refer to this online LCD panel database, and also this other site that explains the difference between the LCD panel types. This will explain why some panels cost so much more, even though they are the same in terms of screen size.

    http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php
    http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000991.html

  6. #6

    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01 View Post
    I find the Dell extremely difficult to calibrate. If got a chance I will get rid of it for another. Not sure if others have prob calibrating the Dell
    I'm not sure what you mean by 'extremely difficult to calibrate'. Are you using Spyder or Eye One, or something else?

    TFT Central has a profile database, and Dell 2408 WFP is listed there as well. Find it here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/icc_profiles.htm

    In summary for Dell 2408 WFP:

    Calibration device used is LaCie Blue Eye Pro
    Brightness : 20
    Contrast : 50
    Red : 92
    Green : 90
    Blue : 98
    Preset Mode: Custom

    Hope this will help you get better results.

  7. #7

    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    Quote Originally Posted by humbee View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by 'extremely difficult to calibrate'. Are you using Spyder or Eye One, or something else?

    TFT Central has a profile database, and Dell 2408 WFP is listed there as well. Find it here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/icc_profiles.htm

    In summary for Dell 2408 WFP:

    Calibration device used is LaCie Blue Eye Pro
    Brightness : 20
    Contrast : 50
    Red : 92
    Green : 90
    Blue : 98
    Preset Mode: Custom

    Hope this will help you get better results.
    I think it's not really advisable to use these settings, but rather, to use them as a rough guide when profiling your monitor.

    As for software to profile the internal LUTs, a proper version would be ColorEyes Pro. I've downloaded a trial, and when calibrating, there are 2 separate sections for the video card LUT and the monitor LUT (although mine doesn't have a monitor LUT, so I can't test it out.)

  8. #8

    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01 View Post
    I find the Dell extremely difficult to calibrate. If got a chance I will get rid of it for another. Not sure if others have prob calibrating the Dell
    get the HP Dreamwork! or the Samsung Sysmaster. The cheapest solution is use CRT monitor.

  9. #9

    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    I just learned from someone that the NEC P221W will sell at $950 here in Singapore, when it becomes available .
    Wow, this is really very expensive for a 22 inch S-PVA panel.

    Will you be willing to pay almost $1k for a 22 inch S-PVA?

  10. #10

    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    Philips have a new IPS 24" monitor.
    you might wanna check it out.
    damage is 700++
    You don't take a photograph, you make it. ~Ansel Adams

  11. #11
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    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    Quote Originally Posted by jopel View Post
    get the HP Dreamwork! or the Samsung Sysmaster. The cheapest solution is use CRT monitor.
    You mean HP DreamColor LP2480zx ...? Anyone know the price?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    The Dell isn't 'extremely' difficult to calibrate. I calibrated mine using EyeOne Display and got really good results. Screw the Spyder crap.

  13. #13
    Moderator chngpe01's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    Anyway I give up on the Dell and just tighten my belt and got a Eizo Coloredge CE210W from Cathay.

    Calibration with the Eizo is a breeze. I used it beside my Dell and correct the color as close as possible to the Eizo. I find the Dell gives a Redish / Megenta tint.

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    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01 View Post
    Anyway I give up on the Dell and just tighten my belt and got a Eizo Coloredge CE210W from Cathay.

    Calibration with the Eizo is a breeze. I used it beside my Dell and correct the color as close as possible to the Eizo. I find the Dell gives a Redish / Megenta tint.
    I dont get that after calibration.

  15. #15
    Moderator chngpe01's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    It is ok, to me the Dell is not worth the $ that's all

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    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01 View Post
    It is ok, to me the Dell is not worth the $ that's all
    To each his own. cheers!

  17. #17

    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    Actually, it depends on which version of Spyder one is using.

    I have used Spyder 1, Spyder 2 Express, Spyder 2 Pro, and Spyder 3 Elite. The reason why I got Elite is because I know Spyder 3 Pro do not have the full features necessary to calibrate my Dell or LCDs which are excessively bright.

    With Elite version, there no need to lower the Brightness to '0', which some users have done, which is NOT recommended. I managed to achieve a Delta E of around 0.7, while keeping brightness at around 45, and contrast around 50. With the correct version/package, the results can be very good, regardless of brand.

    Eye One Display 2 is a very good choice, and I would very much like to try it some day.

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    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    EyeOne Display 2 is the best out there in the market for general consumers. BTW, most LCDs nowadays are super bright by 'popular' demand and the Dell 2408 is no exception. The good thing about EyeOne Display 2 is I can measure brightness to levels I am comfortable with. Profiling takes only about 10-15mins.

    So far my prints have been very consistent and no more surprises with out of gamut colours.

  19. #19

    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    Oh dear. I think I did not make myself clear enough.

    When I say brightness at 45, I mean the OSD settings.

    The actual brightness/luminance reading is actually 120 cd/m, which seems to be the recommended level for photo editing. Some people say 140 cd/m, but too bright for me. In fact, an experienced user even recommended 100 cd/m instead (seems to low to me.)

    I don't think Dell 2408 is difficult to calibrate, as long as the correct calibration package is used. Spyder Elite 3, Eye One Display 2 & mid-high level packages can do a job well.

    By the way, mine is revision A01, made in Dec 2008 if I'm not wrong. Perhaps most of the early problems have been solved by now. Frankly, not a bad monitor for $900 with 5 years warranty

  20. #20
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    Default Re: NEC P221 or Dell 2408WFP

    I had to set mine to OSD 38 which translates to about 80cd/m.

    Brightness is pretty much your own preference and very subjective. There is no 'correct' settings for brightness. My Dell 2408, iMac and Apple 30" LCD all came out way too bright for my eyes right out of the box. Almost burned my retinas for day to day use. With EyeOne Display2 you can choose between 80-140cd/m, or whatever brightness your eyes are comfortable with. As long as your prints come out the way you see on the monitor, you should be on the right track. Hope that helps.

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