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Thread: budget of 1k

  1. #41
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    Default Re: budget of 1k

    Quote Originally Posted by ombre View Post
    Now the very crucial information we need is... what do you plan to shoot?

    I recommend getting an old body + a high end lens + kit lens/a cheap tele

    With this 1k budget is a must break, but not by much if you buy the right things, say 1.3k?

    Honestly, I think its useless to set a budget without knowing what you need, I personally call this a buyer's fallacy (think gambler's fallacy).

    Today you buy something with a budget of 1k. When someday you don't like it, whats your new budget? Its most likely 1k again or very close. All in all it will add up.

    Therefore, get a good lens as these don't depreciate much, bodies on the other hand, come and go.

    I went down this path, and see where I am ending...

    350D + Kit Lens
    Sigma 20mm F1.8 ($500) + Sigma 70-300 ($210)

    3 months later:
    Bought: 50mm F1.8 + 55-250mm
    Sold: Sigma 20mm F1.8 ($500) + Sigma 70-300 ($210)

    3 weeks later:
    Bought: Kit lens IS version
    Sold: 50mm F1.8
    Selling: 55-250
    Bought: 85mm F1.8 -$430 (going to sell too)
    Planning: 135L

    Whats my setup going to be like? 350D + IS Kit lens + 135L (maybe 1.4 TC)
    Cost of this final set up? About 1.5k, used carefully, I'll be able to shoot pro looking results, maybe not as high res or noise free as a pro body, but the lens and sharpness will meet my expectations. And well, its only because now I know my style of shooting, that I know what I want to get.

    Also note that the budget of 1.5k actually is far cheaper than the intial path i went down. Lucky for me I nearly break even on most of my transactions due to proper care.

    I hope this experience I share will help you. By the way I started out with a budget of 600-800 =P
    If you ask me, skip the 135L and change your kit lens. :P anyway it looks as if you don't know what you're shooting, and are buying/selling for the sake of it.

    I don't know, I seriously don't understand your "path", and I'll suggest people NOT to follow.

    One of the most absurd and unfathomable move by newbies is to purchase lenses to cover the entire range when they don't really know much about photography, and randomly buying stuff because they think they need.
    For example, buying 20mmf1.8 (huh?), selling 70-300 for 55-250 (double huh?), buying 50 1.8 (goodness knows why), buying and selling 85 1.8 (nothing better to do?).

    I mean.. end up settling for 135L and a kit lens (scratch head).. if the kit lens can provide acceptable sharpness for you.. i doubt you'll even be able to tell the difference between a 135L and the 70-300 at 135, or 55-250 at 135.

    -------------------

    My advise is, buy a cheap body, buy a kit lens, buy the best flash you can afford...

    Your body will be disposable after a while, you'll realise what you need for lenses later, but you'll find that the same good flash is going to serve you for a v v long time... That's alot more painful to upgrade than the miniscule losses in lenses and bodies..

    -------------------

  2. #42

    Default Re: budget of 1k

    Quote Originally Posted by unseen View Post
    If you ask me, skip the 135L and change your kit lens. :P anyway it looks as if you don't know what you're shooting, and are buying/selling for the sake of it.

    I don't know, I seriously don't understand your "path", and I'll suggest people NOT to follow.

    One of the most absurd and unfathomable move by newbies is to purchase lenses to cover the entire range when they don't really know much about photography, and randomly buying stuff because they think they need.
    For example, buying 20mmf1.8 (huh?), selling 70-300 for 55-250 (double huh?), buying 50 1.8 (goodness knows why), buying and selling 85 1.8 (nothing better to do?).

    I mean.. end up settling for 135L and a kit lens (scratch head).. if the kit lens can provide acceptable sharpness for you.. i doubt you'll even be able to tell the difference between a 135L and the 70-300 at 135, or 55-250 at 135.

    -------------------

    My advise is, buy a cheap body, buy a kit lens, buy the best flash you can afford...

    Your body will be disposable after a while, you'll realise what you need for lenses later, but you'll find that the same good flash is going to serve you for a v v long time... That's alot more painful to upgrade than the miniscule losses in lenses and bodies..

    -------------------
    Sounds more like a personal attack! Haha, but let me take it with a pinch of salt. Perhaps I posted in choppy parts and you didn't get the whole flow.

    Should I start with the newbie parts first? Ok, basically the buy and sell for the 20mm F1.8 & Sigma 70-300mm is due to crappy sharpness. I wanted a tele and fast wide. Fast wide for dance studio rehearsal shoots. In the end I realize I never used a fast wide (because there were no shows) and it was too much money to keep, wasn't sharp too. The Sigma 70-300 was not usable IMO, I bought on behalf of a friend only, and I used it for awhile, shouldn't have called it my lens.

    50mm... thats a debate you don't have to point at me directly, its pretty general. Anyway its a good lens for the money, I recommend it. However, the bokeh didn't satisfy me later on, thats where the 85mm came in.

    The buying and selling 85mm is actually just an upgrade path. At first I thought I;d never break the budget to buy an L lens. I changed my mind after all. And 55-250 will be redundant if I get 135L. Is the picture clearer now? And oh, the 85mm wasn't sharp enough for me yet, I need the F2~F2.5 part sharper. Thus... 135L. Yes I want the reach too, in case you shoot me on it again.

    In case you havent realize, the new IS kit lens (same with nikon's new kit) sharpness rivals those of L lenses, breaks sensor resolution up to a 40D. True, its not an L grade, but At F5.6, the sharpness equals the 135L @ F2.8, at least statistically speaking. And, I don't really use the wide end anymore, thus, little effort made to upgrade the kit. Why skip 135L? Didn't I clearly explain I was going to do Candids, portraits and Concerts? (Maybe I didn't, I've been in 3 of these similar threads).

    I never advised anyone to follow my path, that is not my intention. I just wanted to demonstrate how knowing what you want can help you clear the mis-buying and selling cycle, as above, I went through one long one. Of course, 135L is not everyone's lens, but I'm just saying, someday, everyone will have a favorite choice lens, find that first, and get it right from the start.

    Your advice of getting the best flash doesn't entirely stand too. Not everyone needs more than an onboard flash. Not everyone even goes out at night or shoot in a room. =) In fact, the number of amateurs using external flashes are pretty low? I have not seen a single flash mounted camera except at weddings. Start with tripod instead.
    Looking for Canon 100mm F2 USM :)

  3. #43
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    Default Re: budget of 1k

    Quote Originally Posted by ombre View Post
    Sounds more like a personal attack! Haha, but let me take it with a pinch of salt. Perhaps I posted in choppy parts and you didn't get the whole flow.
    Sorry, it's not a personal attack. It's a general thing about the newbies I noticed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ombre View Post
    The buying and selling 85mm is actually just an upgrade path. At first I thought I;d never break the budget to buy an L lens. I changed my mind after all. And 55-250 will be redundant if I get 135L. Is the picture clearer now? And oh, the 85mm wasn't sharp enough for me yet, I need the F2~F2.5 part sharper. Thus... 135L. Yes I want the reach too, in case you shoot me on it again.

    In case you havent realize, the new IS kit lens (same with nikon's new kit) sharpness rivals those of L lenses, breaks sensor resolution up to a 40D. True, its not an L grade, but At F5.6, the sharpness equals the 135L @ F2.8, at least statistically speaking. And, I don't really use the wide end anymore, thus, little effort made to upgrade the kit. Why skip 135L? Didn't I clearly explain I was going to do Candids, portraits and Concerts? (Maybe I didn't, I've been in 3 of these similar threads).
    Er.............
    ROFL when you progress further into photography, you'll know that sharpness isn't everything. not when you're comparing F5.6 to F2.8, but I guess you're not really sure what larger aperture is for...
    Further more, I'm not so sure who is the one who is misleading you, but obviously you've not used any other lens before to be making such comments.

    Yes I have used the 18-55 IS kit lens, and let me break it gently to you:
    It's crap, but at least it's not the worst lens around because there's still the non IS kit, and V1 of the non IS kit lens.
    It has very bad resolving power, it's CA control is horrible, it's very soft.
    Take a look here, near the middle. There's comparison against the far more superior 17-55 F2.8. Look at the lack of details.:
    http://www.the-digital-picture.com/r...ns-Review.aspx
    I suggest you stop promoting the IS kit, as it's really inviting people to laugh at you..


    Why skip 135L?
    Because.... 135L isn't the multi-function lens that you think it is. It'll perhaps give you a kick to see the bokeh, but.... it's a rather specialised lens. Of course, you're not going to realise that, you just feel that you don't have enough reach with your 85mm so you're trying your luck with the 135mm? hmmmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by ombre View Post
    Your advice of getting the best flash doesn't entirely stand too. Not everyone needs more than an onboard flash. Not everyone even goes out at night or shoot in a room. =) In fact, the number of amateurs using external flashes are pretty low? I have not seen a single flash mounted camera except at weddings. Start with tripod instead.
    LOL When you've progressed further in photography, perhaps you'll understand why people shoot with flash even in the day. If you want to do "protraits & concerts" and you don't have a flash....
    I would seriously suggest you do make an effort to learn the difference a flash does make.
    Last edited by unseen; 30th December 2008 at 10:55 PM.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: budget of 1k

    Quote Originally Posted by greengoblin View Post
    Alternatively just get a 2nd hand d80 and a 50mm f1.8 for starters . The 50mm f1.8 is bang for buck and you can use that to train your composition skills first before upgrading.
    If he gets a 50mm, as a newbie, he won't ever learn to shoot with other POVs, he won't appreciate the 1.8, he won't see the "bang for buck", and he can't use the camera for any general purpose if he wants to.

  5. #45
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: budget of 1k

    Quote Originally Posted by unseen View Post
    .
    .
    .
    ....
    LOL When you've progressed further in photography, perhaps you'll understand why people shoot with flash even in the day. If you want to do "protraits & concerts" and you don't have a flash....
    I would seriously suggest you do make an effort to learn the difference a flash does make.
    Quote Originally Posted by unseen View Post
    If he gets a 50mm, as a newbie, he won't ever learn to shoot with other POVs, he won't appreciate the 1.8, he won't see the "bang for buck", and he can't use the camera for any general purpose if he wants to.
    OK I think this thread is going way OT.
    To Bro unseen, I think you should refrain from the 'high and mighty'-style comments on other CSers. I've also highlighted phrases which make it sound like you're some sort of authority on photography.
    Well, let's assume that you're very experienced and knowledgeable. BUT every newbie also has his/her individual preferences and expectations on IQ, affordability, etc.
    You claim the Canon 18-55 IS kit lens is CRAP, but I've seen some really nice shots from kit lenses too. I'm happy with my Nikon kit lens. Then again I'm no professional

    To TS: please close this thread, as you've already bought your >$1K camera.
    thank you.
    Exploring! :)

  6. #46

    Default Re: budget of 1k

    Quote Originally Posted by unseen View Post
    Sorry, it's not a personal attack. It's a general thing about the newbies I noticed.
    Well, I don't want to get into a fight with you here, but hm, lets just say you make a lot of assumptions about me that aren't true. And lets just say you should change your style of approaching the 'newbie' forum. Such as claiming its not a personal attack and then labeling newbies.

    Er.............
    ROFL when you progress further into photography, you'll know that sharpness isn't everything. not when you're comparing F5.6 to F2.8, but I guess you're not really sure what larger aperture is for...
    Further more, I'm not so sure who is the one who is misleading you, but obviously you've not used any other lens before to be making such comments.
    I know what aperture is for thank you. I was just comparing MTF figures by the way. I may not have hands on every single great lens there, but I have tested enough to get a feel of what sharpness is, and I compare each lens I tested with multiple review sites on their charts and MTF figures.

    ...
    It's crap,...
    http://www.the-digital-picture.com/r...ns-Review.aspx
    I suggest you stop promoting the IS kit, as it's really inviting people to laugh at you...
    Really? I'm not sure which part of the site you were reading but yes I've read that page you linked... maybe you missed this line "performs very well optically", which was bold too on that review. Check out photozone's MTF review on this. At F5.6 this lens nearly hits the nymquist (spelling?) frequency on the 50D.

    Why skip 135L?
    Because.... 135L isn't the multi-function lens that you think it is. ...you just feel that you don't have enough reach with your 85mm so you're trying your luck with the 135mm? hmmmmm...
    This one OT's, so skipped, but I know what its about thank you.


    LOL When you've progressed further in photography, perhaps you'll understand why people shoot with flash even in the day. If you want to do "protraits & concerts" and you don't have a flash....
    I would seriously suggest you do make an effort to learn the difference a flash does make.
    No arguments with you here, but I know what a flash does in the day thanks for the assumption anyway. But look at your recommendation for TS. Cheapest body + kit (which you abhor) + powerful flash.

    Urm?

    So you want your labelled newbies to have harsh lighted (since they may not control the flash well) pictures with low Image quality? Even when they someday learn to use it... Well lit pictures with low IQ (your opinion of the kit lens)?

    Anyway this should end here yea.
    Looking for Canon 100mm F2 USM :)

  7. #47
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    Default Re: budget of 1k

    Quote Originally Posted by ombre View Post
    ....

    I know what aperture is for thank you. I was just comparing MTF figures by the way. I may not have hands on every single great lens there, but I have tested enough to get a feel of what sharpness is, and I compare each lens I tested with multiple review sites on their charts and MTF figures.

    Really? I'm not sure which part of the site you were reading but yes I've read that page you linked... maybe you missed this line "performs very well optically", which was bold too on that review. Check out photozone's MTF review on this. At F5.6 this lens nearly hits the nymquist (spelling?) frequency on the 50D.
    Quoted for.. ermm... the entertainment inside?
    Well, perhaps you should really understand the nyquist frequency/limit is about. You should not form your own physics theories.

    Go read
    http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...hotography.htm

    Just to translate for you, with the diffraction "limit" for the 50D is at around F5.6, such that any images taken higher than that will suffer further detail loss.

    If it's a bad lens, shooting above F5.6 will just cause more loss in "resolution".


    Quote Originally Posted by ombre View Post
    No arguments with you here, but I know what a flash does in the day thanks for the assumption anyway. But look at your recommendation for TS. Cheapest body + kit (which you abhor) + powerful flash.

    Urm?

    So you want your labelled newbies to have harsh lighted (since they may not control the flash well) pictures with low Image quality? Even when they someday learn to use it... Well lit pictures with low IQ (your opinion of the kit lens)?

    Anyway this should end here yea.
    The kit lens is a lens for the TS to find out the range he's interested in. It's not worth keeping. Once he's ready, he'll naturally find the next lens he needs.

    Flash is something that he will be needing as he progresses in his journey, it's one that's costly to dump and buy new ones for. any auto setting is enough for them,.

    Yes I still think the kit lens is of very low IQ. But just like any other newbie *cough*, they won't be able to tell the difference between a kit lens and a L lens. When he does, he'll be able to move on to the lens he really needs: A superior wide angle, a good long lens, a super ultra wide angle, etc. The cost of "dumping" the kit lens is thus minimal.

    Honestly, the budget of 1k is not quite sufficient to allow the flexibility one would desire, but this combination would allow for the best upgrade path in the future, without hampering the current.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: budget of 1k

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    OK I think this thread is going way OT.
    To Bro unseen, I think you should refrain from the 'high and mighty'-style comments on other CSers. I've also highlighted phrases which make it sound like you're some sort of authority on photography.
    Well, let's assume that you're very experienced and knowledgeable. BUT every newbie also has his/her individual preferences and expectations on IQ, affordability, etc.
    You claim the Canon 18-55 IS kit lens is CRAP, but I've seen some really nice shots from kit lenses too. I'm happy with my Nikon kit lens. Then again I'm no professional

    To TS: please close this thread, as you've already bought your >$1K camera.
    thank you.
    I think the newbies should learn abit of humility.
    Too many of them pick up a dSLR and think that they become authorities on photography. I don't proclaim to be an authority, but there are some painfully wrong and VERY misleading statements being made all the time.

    Just because newbies are.. well newbies is not cause to excuse them from reality.
    They may stay in their dreamland for all I care, but I think it's bad for them to mislead other newbies.

    Sure there are nice shots from the 18-55, but then again there are many nice shots from various PnS, some winning competitions ahead of dSLRs. Why go into dSLR?
    If your answer is image quality, then... the same answer applies in the 18-55 other lenses.

    Btw, the 50mm comment wasn't made to you, apparently you can't read in context. I was saying if the TS follows the recommendation of ONLY buying a 50mm...

  9. #49

    Default Re: budget of 1k

    guys.. thanks for the advices given...

    cheers

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