Last edited by Sion; 26th December 2008 at 05:43 PM.
Anyway, it didn't use to be that bad. It isn't uncommon for people not to read archives. Though I find it quite absurd now that they don't even bother to read adjacent threads.
Like this one: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452464 which was posted about 3 days ago.
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452537 <----- this one came in a few hours later, asking the exact same thing.
Last edited by wootnick; 26th December 2008 at 12:34 PM.
When I first sign up to be a member of CS. I did not really spent alot of time in the forum writing stuff or looking for kakis to chat. I wanted answers to questions and for some reason I would scan the threads for the appropriate topics. It never occur to me to ask anyone. For one thing maybe awkward or just shy.... stupid as it sounds now. It could also be because I was internet savvy and have been a big user of search engines like Google and Yahoo...etc. But then I discover the "search function"in CS. After that I use the search mode like a bible for anything I wanted to find out fast on DSLRS. Sure you have to cut thru some of the OT stuff but once you get use to it, you can refine your search enough and get rid of the other "white noise" and get to just the answers quickly. It helped turn my knowledge on DSLRs from newbie to knowledgeable in about a few weeks of use. Even till this day, that is what I still do out of habit. Has never failed me.
If any of the newbies want to take a chance and try the search function, not only will they find the answers they want but a whole variety of related ones as well. Giving you a broad overview to help get you a clearer picture of what you want to know or make a purchasing decision. All this way before you trouble other people to write or draw you references to show you how something works..eg.
Some people just think it's no big deal expecting others to type short or long paragraphs just to help answer their question. And I also noticed one other thing. How many times have you heard one say Thank you? Most will just disappear...sometime even after starting the thread.
And then there are those who after all the long paragraphs and numerous posting by a number of people...comes out with a reply that dumbfound you that they have learnt nothing or they did not mean it "that way" that we answer the wrong part of the question.
Problem as I see it is... Laziness, lack social graces and/or Ignorance. There are also those with the ME ME ME mentality. That is..instead of looking up all the relevant thread or doing some finger-clicking cross-references to get their answer or a better picture to their question. They want eveyone to come into THEIR thread so he/she can be comfortable sitting there with all the information in one thread for him/her to read at their own time and if he/she has more questions they types it in there and expect more answers....directly to them. No need to run about searching for answers. We have to wait on them to help get smarter like we owe it to them. That is what gets me.
Oh well...that's life for ya. So Till I see improvement. I will pick who I throw my two cents to. Not that I am saying my two cents is worth anything to begin with.
Last edited by sammy888; 26th December 2008 at 03:37 PM.
what is far more irksome is that if you spoonfeed them, it becomes a conditioned habit. soon they are starting more threads, or if you answer one simple question, they fire back 10 more simple ones.
Is that too hard to request or is that too old school or outmode in these day and age? I guess I should explain further that they don't need to show appreciate but saying THANK YOU but there are many other forms or ways right? Example like.....to their parent for bringing you up, for the teachers that teach them things beyond what a subject calls for, taking the time to being a good friend, g/f, wife or lover to you or in this case a fellow forumer help another. So becasue they all care and aid you, help you, give birth to you..etc. They ask for it and thus does not necessary need to be thanked or acknowledged? Can't be what. Big situations to small ones... I for one feel one should take the time to be appreciative in one form or another...even among strangers you only see on the computer screen.
A "thankyou" is not what is required or expected yes but there are ways to show it or pass it on. Actions that promote more helpfulness, better cohesiveness and friendship among each other that shares a common hobby for example? For me, I will always say thank you..I am sure it is not expected of me but I do so to show people who I am and that I am appreciative.
I shalt say what other examples are....ie show gratitude for the help received but how about yourself? Any examples of what they could be .....apart from playing devil advocate on the subject..that's easy for a smart fellow like you leh. I mean nothing offensive by that hor. I am just curious about your perspective drawn from your own life and family circle.
Last edited by sammy888; 26th December 2008 at 09:28 PM.
Users prefer to get immediate responses from current users in real time. Why dig up something from 1994?
I've been using the internet for yonks (ie. long long time) and indeed the search function is the single most useful feature on a website. However, some are poorly implemented so you get a lot of hits that may not even answer your questions. Most sites built on forum software like phpBB, VBbulletin etc aren't set up to archive relevant articles properly, leaving users with either the option of having to ask a question on a FORUM (as it was designed for) or spend eons browsing through search results. If I compare kenrockwell.com and bythom.com, I feel that bythom's content page is a lot easier to browse through than using the search function that ken utilises, and smarter too.
A lot of sites based on forums are nothing but people's opinions and feedbacks collated into some database, that's how they survive. Without the users' input and productivity the site is a failure. So if people are complaining why there are so many repeated questions, why not establish an up to date content page listing answers to these queries? For a lot of BBS administrators its too much work. As a former forum developer I know how much work it is to develop data-driven websites, it takes a lot of time and management, but that forms the difference between an average site and an excellent one.
i do not mean to say that thank you is not important
i always feel happy when i get a thank you when i hold doors open for strangers in shopping malls, school, etc.. but if i don't get it, i've ceased to care, that's what i mean. for me, i say thank you all the time, i don't think it's a very hard two words to say and yes, it should be said more, to anyone in your life, be it parents, friends, strangers who help.. if everyone said thank you more, the world would be a better place. especially if we all realise it and mean it.
I am a newbie here. Read a fair bit of comments given.
Allow me to give some comments too....
Newbie may overlook the search function. Or other forums search function may proof useless so they won't bother to use the function.
Ok, i agree to some regarding spoonfeeding. But i feel one must not trash another by saying awful words e.g. go n read up, then u need to learn how to use it better, etc (trust me there are many more such words).
I mean this is a forum where people interact, exchange opinons, etc. But is there a need to use offensive tone to people. I believe everyone here does not deserve such treatment. And i do realise that quite a number of the senior members are having such act. Sorry if you feel offended. But as a newbie, i feel that the seniors/members here are throwing airs... (trying to let ppl know you are old bird?)
What i feel, if you find (dumb)question posted can be found easily.
1) ignore it (nobody asked you to reply!)
2) just post a link of the thread which had been discussed (ppl will appreciate)
By doing this, i feel, this is a more friendly environment.
If there is a need, add more sticky threads.
There are a few local forums that make lots of money out of it... (beauty)
To some may think this forum is not out there to make money. I would reply back, think further...
Hope my comment does not offend anyone here as i want to con't my stay here.
Very Informative forum to me.
Cheers all... Happy New Year in advance.
the people who might find this off-putting tend to be the ones who are too lazy. period. some people do not know about the search function. they also seem to have forgotten that the internet is a huge resource of information, as there are many neutral, well-written articles out there on basically almost every subject available. for photography, it is one of the most easily serviced needs when it comes to the internet!
going and reading up, is definitely going to be useful if one does it with thinking, and determination. i acknowledge that not everyone is net-savvy, i have once mistakenly chided a member of the older generation who was not so adept with the internet wrongfully and i apologised. but for people of the younger generation, are they only good for knowing how to use google for school projects or song lyrics?
Last edited by night86mare; 27th December 2008 at 06:40 AM.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. (Or, in the case of S'poreans, you'll have a queue of people waiting for handouts the next day which will write complaint letters to the State's Times if they don't get a free fish.)
Or, teach people how to fish, and they can catch their own fish in the future. (In case the fish metaphor is lost on someone, substitute "how to fish" with "how to solve a problem/how to find answers".)
Frankly, a lot of the requests on this forum could have been answered if the poster had bothered to use his/her brain for a minute, or simply just bothered to read. Rather, people request help on the most common sense (non-)questions (and recently with a trend to ask for "Pro" and "expert" opinions only). Don't you think it is rude to waste the time of "pros", "experts", and everyone else?
Can't it be expected that someone participating in a discussion forum based on avanced information technology is at least marginally information literate?
nothing wrong with telling people they can use the search function. it's HOW you say it. i have to agree that it can be quite daunting for newbies when they ask "what is ISO, har?"
then they get replies like "use google, stupid."
"read the manual"
"you never search? so lazy you want us to spoonfeed you?"
you can ignore it if you feel that it's just another noob wasting your precious time as you trawl CS for the next XMM to have some quality time with, if not spend so much money on camera for what? or if people feel the undescribable urge to add something, you can say the same thing without being rude, condescending, and patronising. perhaps, "are you new? maybe you can check the manual, or try google for some answers. those are good resources for most questions"
some questions may seem -roll-eyes-ZOMFG-is-he-that-stupid?- to you, a pro who makes his living with the camera, or if you already have the pre-requisite 100 XMM mass-shoot. but to the uninitiated, it's probably a legitimate question.
no need to be hostile, let's all try to be more polite to each other. if nothing good to say, don't say. go read something funny and make yourself happy.
The basics are all there in the newbie thread. If they actually bother to read up and looked around a bit, they won't have to ask the SAME inane questions AGAIN AND AGAIN...
While I do try to help occasionally, I really feel irritated at ppl asking the BASIC questions where the answers are already spelt out in another thread which could have been discovered if the poster has bothered to READ MORE.
And asking about settings, haiz another point... why can't they just SHOOT more and try out all the different settings in different lighting, there they would have been able to figure out why the setting has given them such a result instead.
Anyway, they just bother to Post more, which should have been the last step, which is to get critique after they have done their homework and is able to understand better.
If you want others to put in the effort too provide quality answers, you should put in the effort to ask quality questions.
If you cannot post a reasonable request on a forum, then don't post.if nothing good to say, don't say. go read something funny and make yourself happy.
If the occasional poster feels offended because s/he doesn't get spoonfed, that's less collateral damage than the quality/usefulness of a topical discussion forum being flushed down the drain by a surging stream of junk.
i understand how one feels when he does not get appreciated. i had help some people over pm in the Clubsnap forum in the past. some were appreciative, some cant be bothered to even reply with a three letter word "tks." Honestly, i have not encountered a bad soul from all other forums i participated in, all except CS. Perhaps the user base here is too large and the interest group and age group here way too diverse.
but i do question myself my initial intent to help. was it to receive a reward? no. was it to gain a certain satisfaction in a reply filled with thanks. no.
so, i realised it was my own will to help and if the other party is rude, just strike him off the list as a forum stupid idiot.
End of the day, just post what you like to post and if you participated in an open discussions on a serious topic and felt offended by people who exhibited an uncouth behavior, just revisit the thread and wipe out all of the info you spent time writing for him.
anyway, here is kopitiam. there is no rule on gentlemenly etiquette. so, just have fun and dont get too serious.