The Cost Of Medium Format ?

marcwang · 17th September 2003

Hie Guys,

Whats the running of of medium format cameras ? Like cost of film, and cost of developing and prints ? Just curious. There are some cheap medium formats around that interest me, one of which is the toy camera "diana" and holga.

kex · 17th September 2003

the cost of MF is negligent to the quality you get.

film cost the same like 35mm,just that u get fewer shots like 10 for a 6x7,16 for 645 or 12 for 6x6.
As for printing cost,shouldn't be much diff if u are doing enlargements,i believe the diff will be more if u only print 4R.
i shoot MF slides almost 100% unless i want an enlargement,definitely blows ur mind away.

marcwang · 17th September 2003

why shoot slides ? don't you want to see yur fotos in prints ?

wildswan · 17th September 2003

roll film will cost about twice as much per shot compared to 35mm. processing fee is slightly higher. just slightly. in terms of prints, little cost different.

the other cost is longer waiting time for most 35mm labs as they really send the exposed films to the larger labs or head office.

imho the bottleline is the larger frame size well justifies the slightly higher cost.

kex · 17th September 2003

Originally Posted by marcwang

why shoot slides ? don't you want to see yur fotos in prints ?

coz i love the result slides provides.
Coz it's a challenge to produce a nice slides becoz of the narrow latitude .
Coz slides can be kept easier.(smaller in size than prints)
Coz end results won't be influenced by bad printing.

excentrique · 17th September 2003

As far as I know, diana cameras are only in 35mm size. A holga (diana's cousin camera) is a 120 format toy camera. It is definately a cheap option to have a feel of using a medium format camera. However, do keep in mind that these are just toys ultimately, and so don't expect any much quality out of using them.

A better toy would be a seagull camera. The mechanism is closer to a professional manual medium format camera like hasselblad or mamiya, and apparently it is reputable for producing great colour and quality images. If you don't mind spending a bit more, I would rather you get hold of a seagull.

As mentioned, cost of film and processing doesn't really make much difference. Prices depend on the ASA speed of the various films. Ranges somewhere between $3+ to about $6++ per roll. I can't recall how much I spend on processing, but it should be just a couple of dollars. $6 per roll??

Another advantage of using trans (slide) is that they take only 2hrs for processing if you send it to RGB labs. The branches are just around city area so you could really go for a cup of coffee and by the time you're done with, the pictures would be ready. (negative would take longer time)

Apart from that, trans normally look good on their own without any enlargements or prints. Besides, you can now have the option of choosing the best picture for printing (it saves you more money!).

Like negatives,the latitude of trans are much greater than that of print. By just using a loupe (magnifying glass) you would be able to see all the details of the trans. You would be able to study your film in positive instead of a negative.

StreetShooter · 17th September 2003

Erm...

Diana cameras are medium format. Check it out:

http://www.dianacameras.com/thedianacamera.html

120 film cost per roll (12 shots in 6x6 format):

$6.20 for ASA 100 colour negative (Fuji Reala)
$4.50 for Ilford Delta 100 (B&W)
$4.00 for Ilford Pan 400 (cheapest) (B&W)
$6.00 for Ilford Delta 3200 (B&W)

Did not ask about the slides film.

Colour negative / transparency processing: $3.50 per roll at Konota

Printing: 4R 70 cents 5R $5 (donno why the huge jump).

For B&W you can develop your own - more fun.

Latitude refers to the ability to over or under expose without spoiling the image. B&W negatives have great latitude; slides have very little exposure latitude - your exposure must be perfect, otherwise your image will not look nice.

I agree about the Seagull - I got one! $295 for the 4A-107 at Konota, and looks waaaay cool.

marcwang · 17th September 2003

How about medium format cameras ? A brief introduction of the cost of such cameras would be useful, especially for those who are tempted. The Mamiya 645AFD Pro looks damn good, coupled with a digital back. Its good value, if u can switch between film and digital using the same body. Anyone bought or enquire the price of medium format cams lately ? Pls provide the cost involve... many thanks.

kex · 17th September 2003

Mamiya 7ii (champagne gold) with the 80mm F4 cost S$2880 incl GST at cathay.
i heard black cost more..

Ansel · 18th September 2003

Finally, an MF forum on clubsnap. Thanks to Darren.

For those starting out MF with a budget I'll recommend buying a used or new Seagull TLR at between $180-$290. Can also try getting a old but working Yashica(MAT, 635, D), MinoltaCord, Rollei, Mamiya C330, etc, from any of the 2nd hand shops in Peninsula area. These cameras can give you real good picture quality which you can use seriously. Forget holga, lubitel, diana all such cameras as they are more of a novelty because they don't really produce good pictures. I am speaking from experience cos I used to own a Diana in the mid seventies.

The Seagull ain't a great camera, but if you get a good one, it can be a seriously good camera. In the sixties and seventies, the pros, ie photo studios, actually use them for field work, eg, taking *** kindergarten graduation portraits which they charge good money selling to parents.

MF need not be expensive to maintain or run. I get a roll of Provia 100F from Ruby for $4.70. Then I get it processed by RGB for $4.80. For less than $10 I have 15 shots of beautiful slides staring at me with their grainless images and intense colour.

B/W is even cheaper. Film is only $4.00 (according to Streetshooter, but I use expired ones, lagi cheap) and processing b/w film is only about 50 cents per roll for the chemicals.

Both colour slides and b/w you can scan them and convert them to view on your PC, post on the net, send out for digital printing, etc. If you want seriously big prints, then use the slides and the negatives directly for truly eyeball popping enlargements.

But MF has it's drawbacks too. But my post is getting too long so I'll stop here.

StreetShooter · 18th September 2003

Originally Posted by marcwang

How about medium format cameras ? A brief introduction of the cost of such cameras would be useful, especially for those who are tempted. The Mamiya 645AFD Pro looks damn good, coupled with a digital back. Its good value, if u can switch between film and digital using the same body. Anyone bought or enquire the price of medium format cams lately ? Pls provide the cost involve... many thanks.

Hmmm... Mamiya 645AFD Pro with digital back, huh?

Let me put it gently. If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

kex · 18th September 2003

just came back from cathay to buy some film,so i like to update their 120 film prices.

Provia100 = $4.50
kodak 400CN =$4.20
kodak ektacolor Pro160 = $21 for a box of 5
Kodak 100vs = $5.00

excentrique · 19th September 2003

Marc,

it all depends on the budget you have. Owning a Mamiya 645AFD is great because you can use it on film as well and adding digital back to it (ie, Leaf valeo or Phase one series). However, these digital back are extremely expensive and would easily cost $10,000 upwards. The newly launch Leaf valeo 22 pack cost $51,000.

Apart from that, a mamiya 645AFD is notoriously known for being hard to do manual focusing. Unless you are thinking of making money out of your equipments. I would not recommend you to spend that kind of money.

Apart from mamiya, contax, and (pentax??) also makes 645 cameras. But as usual, they are pricey.

Though there are so many brands out in the market, there are however some medium format camera which are preferred among the professionals. The preferred 120 SLR cameras in the market are Hasselblad, and mamiya. Both comes with very comprehensive assessories (poloroid backs, film back etc..) and lens for heavy commercial demands. This also means that there's more underlying cost to investing a professional 120format camera.

I've bought my mamiya RZ67 proII set (inc 110mm len) on an offer price of about $2000++, but after adding a poloroid back, a 50mm len and an extension tube, the bills came up to more than $6000. And this is still considered quite cheap, think about how much you would need to own a hasselblad....

TLR (seagull) on the other hand is cheap because they do not have interchangeable lens and the mechanisms are normally less complex and lower in cost to produce. There are also no additional asessories to add on to your camera.

excentrique · 19th September 2003

[quote=StreetShooter]Erm...

Diana cameras are medium format. Check it out:

http://www.dianacameras.com/thedianacamera.html

opps...looks like I have just made a mistake. .

Ian · 19th September 2003

Originally Posted by marcwang

Hie Guys,

Whats the running of of medium format cameras ? Like cost of film, and cost of developing and prints ? Just curious. There are some cheap medium formats around that interest me, one of which is the toy camera "diana" and holga.

Marc, while you're in Perth studying here's the info on a Perth only basis. (prices in AUD)

120 Roll film b/w - $6-11 per roll depending on type.

120 C41 print film: $6-12 per roll depending on type.

120 Chromes $8-19 per roll depending on type.

Processing: Holtz are the only non pro lab I know of that process and print 120 format. I'm not sure if Barry Canhams can deal with it or not. Otherwise it has to go through a pro lab and the cost will vary depending on lab.

Typical costs are around $12 per roll for 6x6 D&P and around $20 a roll for Chromes. (develop and mount). $8-12 a roll for process only for chromes.

Where to process: Largely dependent on where you are residing in Perth at present. There's a few good pro labs around Subiaco and in Perth CBD.

Sources of 120 film. You might want to try Unversity Cameras (near UWA) and they might get film in for you, otherwise try London Court Photographics in at London Court, as well as Camera House (Leederville) etc.

nokkieg · 10th October 2003

Originally Posted by Ansel

Finally, an MF forum on clubsnap. Thanks to Darren.

For those starting out MF with a budget I'll recommend buying a used or new Seagull TLR at between $180-$290. Can also try getting a old but working Yashica(MAT, 635, D), MinoltaCord, Rollei, Mamiya C330, etc, from any of the 2nd hand shops in Peninsula area. These cameras can give you real good picture quality which you can use seriously. Forget holga, lubitel, diana all such cameras as they are more of a novelty because they don't really produce good pictures. I am speaking from experience cos I used to own a Diana in the mid seventies.

The Seagull ain't a great camera, but if you get a good one, it can be a seriously good camera. In the sixties and seventies, the pros, ie photo studios, actually use them for field work, eg, taking *** kindergarten graduation portraits which they charge good money selling to parents.

MF need not be expensive to maintain or run. I get a roll of Provia 100F from Ruby for $4.70. Then I get it processed by RGB for $4.80. For less than $10 I have 15 shots of beautiful slides staring at me with their grainless images and intense colour.

B/W is even cheaper. Film is only $4.00 (according to Streetshooter, but I use expired ones, lagi cheap) and processing b/w film is only about 50 cents per roll for the chemicals.

Both colour slides and b/w you can scan them and convert them to view on your PC, post on the net, send out for digital printing, etc. If you want seriously big prints, then use the slides and the negatives directly for truly eyeball popping enlargements.

But MF has it's drawbacks too. But my post is getting too long so I'll stop here.

Hey Ansel,

Where do you get expired 120 roll film from? I may want to get some for my Holga!

raymond · 19th October 2003

Hello.
Which digital back is good? What's your advise on leaf and phaseone . Which digital you currently using?

raymond

it all depends on the budget you have. Owning a Mamiya 645AFD is great because you can use it on film as well and adding digital back to it (ie, Leaf valeo or Phase one series). However, these digital back are extremely expensive and would easily cost $10,000 upwards. The newly launch Leaf valeo 22 pack cost $51,000.

Apart from that, a mamiya 645AFD is notoriously known for being hard to do manual focusing. Unless you are thinking of making money out of your equipments. I would not recommend you to spend that kind of money.

Apart from mamiya, contax, and (pentax??) also makes 645 cameras. But as usual, they are pricey.

Though there are so many brands out in the market, there are however some medium format camera which are preferred among the professionals. The preferred 120 SLR cameras in the market are Hasselblad, and mamiya. Both comes with very comprehensive assessories (poloroid backs, film back etc..) and lens for heavy commercial demands. This also means that there's more underlying cost to investing a professional 120format camera.

I've bought my mamiya RZ67 proII set (inc 110mm len) on an offer price of about $2000++, but after adding a poloroid back, a 50mm len and an extension tube, the bills came up to more than $6000. And this is still considered quite cheap, think about how much you would need to own a hasselblad....

TLR (seagull) on the other hand is cheap because they do not have interchangeable lens and the mechanisms are normally less complex and lower in cost to produce. There are also no additional asessories to add on to your camera.[/quote]

dreamseeker · 19th October 2003

Hi excentrique,

Did you buy your Mamiya RZ pro II new? 2nd hand price of Hassys on the market is coming down so the cost of owning one need not be too ex.

I got my 500cm w 80mm CFE lens & back for $2500. Also got a NPC polaroid back for $100. All used. So cost of owning it is not too ex as long as willing to buy used. And mine is in pretty mint condition save for the polaroid back.

Streetshooter, you may want to add fuji 120 NPS/NPC 120 (ASA160) - $3.70

regards.

LCT · 26th October 2003

I love the 120 slide when shot with TLR.

One question, i am being held back becos of the more expensive reproduction cost into print.

Beside, apart from admiring the beautiful and contrasty slide, how else can I better utilise these slides?

Do you scan it to display on screen and for archive? or more often kept it away for future viewing pleasure?

I dont own a film scanner so in my case, I just keep it away so its such a waste and not so meaningful for me apart from admiring the positives which I must say is simply awesome in term of sharpness!!

Can anyone advise better utilisation of 120 slides?

dreamseeker · 27th October 2003

LCT,

You can buy a medium format projector to show your slides to your friends when they come round to your place.

Not cheap though!

17th September 2003	#1
marcwang Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: East Singapore Posts: 1,023	The Cost Of Medium Format ? Hie Guys, Whats the running of of medium format cameras ? Like cost of film, and cost of developing and prints ? Just curious. There are some cheap medium formats around that interest me, one of which is the toy camera "diana" and holga. __________________ Marc Wang Photography

17th September 2003	#3
marcwang Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: East Singapore Posts: 1,023	why shoot slides ? don't you want to see yur fotos in prints ? __________________ Marc Wang Photography

17th September 2003	#8
marcwang Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: East Singapore Posts: 1,023	How abt the cameras ? How about medium format cameras ? A brief introduction of the cost of such cameras would be useful, especially for those who are tempted. The Mamiya 645AFD Pro looks damn good, coupled with a digital back. Its good value, if u can switch between film and digital using the same body. Anyone bought or enquire the price of medium format cams lately ? Pls provide the cost involve... many thanks. __________________ Marc Wang Photography

19th October 2003	#17
raymond Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The East side Posts: 372	Mamiya Hello. Which digital back is good? What's your advise on leaf and phaseone . Which digital you currently using? raymond it all depends on the budget you have. Owning a Mamiya 645AFD is great because you can use it on film as well and adding digital back to it (ie, Leaf valeo or Phase one series). However, these digital back are extremely expensive and would easily cost $10,000 upwards. The newly launch Leaf valeo 22 pack cost $51,000. Apart from that, a mamiya 645AFD is notoriously known for being hard to do manual focusing. Unless you are thinking of making money out of your equipments. I would not recommend you to spend that kind of money. Apart from mamiya, contax, and (pentax??) also makes 645 cameras. But as usual, they are pricey. Though there are so many brands out in the market, there are however some medium format camera which are preferred among the professionals. The preferred 120 SLR cameras in the market are Hasselblad, and mamiya. Both comes with very comprehensive assessories (poloroid backs, film back etc..) and lens for heavy commercial demands. This also means that there's more underlying cost to investing a professional 120format camera. I've bought my mamiya RZ67 proII set (inc 110mm len) on an offer price of about $2000++, but after adding a poloroid back, a 50mm len and an extension tube, the bills came up to more than $6000. And this is still considered quite cheap, think about how much you would need to own a hasselblad.... TLR (seagull) on the other hand is cheap because they do not have interchangeable lens and the mechanisms are normally less complex and lower in cost to produce. There are also no additional asessories to add on to your camera.[/quote]

26th October 2003	#19
LCT Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 194	slide I love the 120 slide when shot with TLR. One question, i am being held back becos of the more expensive reproduction cost into print. Beside, apart from admiring the beautiful and contrasty slide, how else can I better utilise these slides? Do you scan it to display on screen and for archive? or more often kept it away for future viewing pleasure? I dont own a film scanner so in my case, I just keep it away so its such a waste and not so meaningful for me apart from admiring the positives which I must say is simply awesome in term of sharpness!! Can anyone advise better utilisation of 120 slides?

17th September 2003	#2
kex Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: beebox Posts: 2,101	the cost of MF is negligent to the quality you get. film cost the same like 35mm,just that u get fewer shots like 10 for a 6x7,16 for 645 or 12 for 6x6. As for printing cost,shouldn't be much diff if u are doing enlargements,i believe the diff will be more if u only print 4R. i shoot MF slides almost 100% unless i want an enlargement,definitely blows ur mind away.

17th September 2003	#4
wildswan Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: jurong west Posts: 72	roll film will cost about twice as much per shot compared to 35mm. processing fee is slightly higher. just slightly. in terms of prints, little cost different. the other cost is longer waiting time for most 35mm labs as they really send the exposed films to the larger labs or head office. imho the bottleline is the larger frame size well justifies the slightly higher cost.

17th September 2003	#6
excentrique Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: east Posts: 339	As far as I know, diana cameras are only in 35mm size. A holga (diana's cousin camera) is a 120 format toy camera. It is definately a cheap option to have a feel of using a medium format camera. However, do keep in mind that these are just toys ultimately, and so don't expect any much quality out of using them. A better toy would be a seagull camera. The mechanism is closer to a professional manual medium format camera like hasselblad or mamiya, and apparently it is reputable for producing great colour and quality images. If you don't mind spending a bit more, I would rather you get hold of a seagull. As mentioned, cost of film and processing doesn't really make much difference. Prices depend on the ASA speed of the various films. Ranges somewhere between $3+ to about $6++ per roll. I can't recall how much I spend on processing, but it should be just a couple of dollars. $6 per roll?? Another advantage of using trans (slide) is that they take only 2hrs for processing if you send it to RGB labs. The branches are just around city area so you could really go for a cup of coffee and by the time you're done with, the pictures would be ready. (negative would take longer time) Apart from that, trans normally look good on their own without any enlargements or prints. Besides, you can now have the option of choosing the best picture for printing (it saves you more money!). Like negatives,the latitude of trans are much greater than that of print. By just using a loupe (magnifying glass) you would be able to see all the details of the trans. You would be able to study your film in positive instead of a negative.

17th September 2003	#7
StreetShooter Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Katong Posts: 4,702	Erm... Diana cameras are medium format. Check it out: http://www.dianacameras.com/thedianacamera.html 120 film cost per roll (12 shots in 6x6 format): $6.20 for ASA 100 colour negative (Fuji Reala) $4.50 for Ilford Delta 100 (B&W) $4.00 for Ilford Pan 400 (cheapest) (B&W) $6.00 for Ilford Delta 3200 (B&W) Did not ask about the slides film. Colour negative / transparency processing: $3.50 per roll at Konota Printing: 4R 70 cents 5R $5 (donno why the huge jump). For B&W you can develop your own - more fun. Latitude refers to the ability to over or under expose without spoiling the image. B&W negatives have great latitude; slides have very little exposure latitude - your exposure must be perfect, otherwise your image will not look nice. I agree about the Seagull - I got one! $295 for the 4A-107 at Konota, and looks waaaay cool.

18th September 2003	#10
Ansel Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Land Downunder Posts: 2,069	Finally, an MF forum on clubsnap. Thanks to Darren. For those starting out MF with a budget I'll recommend buying a used or new Seagull TLR at between $180-$290. Can also try getting a old but working Yashica(MAT, 635, D), MinoltaCord, Rollei, Mamiya C330, etc, from any of the 2nd hand shops in Peninsula area. These cameras can give you real good picture quality which you can use seriously. Forget holga, lubitel, diana all such cameras as they are more of a novelty because they don't really produce good pictures. I am speaking from experience cos I used to own a Diana in the mid seventies. The Seagull ain't a great camera, but if you get a good one, it can be a seriously good camera. In the sixties and seventies, the pros, ie photo studios, actually use them for field work, eg, taking *** kindergarten graduation portraits which they charge good money selling to parents. MF need not be expensive to maintain or run. I get a roll of Provia 100F from Ruby for $4.70. Then I get it processed by RGB for $4.80. For less than $10 I have 15 shots of beautiful slides staring at me with their grainless images and intense colour. B/W is even cheaper. Film is only $4.00 (according to Streetshooter, but I use expired ones, lagi cheap) and processing b/w film is only about 50 cents per roll for the chemicals. Both colour slides and b/w you can scan them and convert them to view on your PC, post on the net, send out for digital printing, etc. If you want seriously big prints, then use the slides and the negatives directly for truly eyeball popping enlargements. But MF has it's drawbacks too. But my post is getting too long so I'll stop here.

19th September 2003	#13
excentrique Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: east Posts: 339	Marc, it all depends on the budget you have. Owning a Mamiya 645AFD is great because you can use it on film as well and adding digital back to it (ie, Leaf valeo or Phase one series). However, these digital back are extremely expensive and would easily cost $10,000 upwards. The newly launch Leaf valeo 22 pack cost $51,000. Apart from that, a mamiya 645AFD is notoriously known for being hard to do manual focusing. Unless you are thinking of making money out of your equipments. I would not recommend you to spend that kind of money. Apart from mamiya, contax, and (pentax??) also makes 645 cameras. But as usual, they are pricey. Though there are so many brands out in the market, there are however some medium format camera which are preferred among the professionals. The preferred 120 SLR cameras in the market are Hasselblad, and mamiya. Both comes with very comprehensive assessories (poloroid backs, film back etc..) and lens for heavy commercial demands. This also means that there's more underlying cost to investing a professional 120format camera. I've bought my mamiya RZ67 proII set (inc 110mm len) on an offer price of about $2000++, but after adding a poloroid back, a 50mm len and an extension tube, the bills came up to more than $6000. And this is still considered quite cheap, think about how much you would need to own a hasselblad.... TLR (seagull) on the other hand is cheap because they do not have interchangeable lens and the mechanisms are normally less complex and lower in cost to produce. There are also no additional asessories to add on to your camera.

19th October 2003	#18
dreamseeker Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 354	Hi excentrique, Did you buy your Mamiya RZ pro II new? 2nd hand price of Hassys on the market is coming down so the cost of owning one need not be too ex. I got my 500cm w 80mm CFE lens & back for $2500. Also got a NPC polaroid back for $100. All used. So cost of owning it is not too ex as long as willing to buy used. And mine is in pretty mint condition save for the polaroid back. Streetshooter, you may want to add fuji 120 NPS/NPC 120 (ASA160) - $3.70 regards.

27th October 2003	#20
dreamseeker Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 354	LCT, You can buy a medium format projector to show your slides to your friends when they come round to your place. Not cheap though!