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Thread: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

  1. #221
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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Permit me to say this here as it is something I have to get off my chest.

    As I was reading through TNP's article again, it got me thinking. As per a previous topic http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440352, I gave credit to the TS for bringing this issue up, what I slammed was the points he made on morals and some arguments he mentioned that somehow did not seem to gel. In the light of this article that appeared yesterday, there are somethings which I need to just get it off my mind.

    The way I look at it, there are two sides to the same coin. One side is the shoot organiser and the other is the shooter who engages the model himself. Contrary to what others may say, age is still a key factor here. I know I will get slammed on this, but go ahead, it does not matter.

    To put a case in point. A few years back, there was a big issue with a Japanese model by the name Saaya Iriee. For those who do not know or forget who this person is, do a Google, you will know why. She was only 11 but she actually managed to forge closer ties in Sino-Japanese relations. She was a huge hit in the net, but at the same time, her parents and agent were also blasted for the same reason she was a hit. No matter which jurisdiction we are talking about, age is always a game of catch me if you can. If any legal issue is to be called here, let me state that from what I know, anybody under the age of 16 in SG is a minor. Anybody at the age of 18 can be tried in the court of law as an adult. I am not a lawyer for the record, this is what I know by far.

    As organisers, while they are not exactly duty bound to protect their models, there is a certain obligation for the organisers to do so. Organisers such as Melody-love (though I have not attended any of her shoots) , I believe she keeps a portfolio of the models she has worked with before. Same goes with Ivan S or any other shoot organiser, I believe, unless they are dubious. For that matter, it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that many, if not all of the shoot organisers here do an age check before even marketing the shoot. How they market it is another question which I will not go into as it will open a can of worms. It is clearly then that the onus in this case is on the organiser to verify the issues at hand lest the organiser themselves get implicated for all the wrong reason.

    The other is where the shooter engages the model. In this case, any shooter in the right frame of mind will meet up with the model first and talk to the model about what he is shooting and how he will be conducting the shoot. At the same time, any shooter will talk about concepts and gain feedback from the model as to what is permitted and what is not, especially in the context of the theme. Be it a normal fashion shoot, theme shoot, bikini, lingerie, nude or whatever the case is any shooter will do this to gain an understanding between himself and the model. But in this case here, anything can happen and most of the time, it is the model's word against the shooter' word, especially since if the model were female and the shooter male.

    Photographers who scour the Internet to look and prey on young girls like these for the lure of easy money most of the time are people seeking to satisfy some hedonistic fantasies, especially since they are young and impressionable. As such, the model must be smart enough to walk away from the shoot. If what they are afraid of is being branded as unprofessional, then they are seriously misguided. Will any girl want to be caught in a uncompromising position? If they have a valid reason for walking away from a shoot, then I do not see it as unprofessional. There is however a fine line being a prima donna and a diva as compared to one who is professional.

    For any model wannabe or aspiring models looking for shoots here and are reading this: it takes two hands to clap. Be smart enough to walk away from a shoot if you feel something is wrong especially with the request the shooter has made. To be branded as unprofessional by someone who does not have any professional ethics as a photographer is something you should not be losing sleep over. If you accept any form of indecent proposals in spite of knowing that it falls out of line with what you are comfortable, then I question your professionalism.

  2. #222
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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    so just because TNP says MDA will clamp down on objectionable material, means that we have been putting up objectionable material? I don't see the logic here. The stuff posted up here is tamer than what's being shown in FHM , Maxim, and Playeur. and they are PUBLISHED, one by Mediacorp one by SPH (but now closed) and one by Viscion. If girls in lingerie was legally objectionable then they would all be out of business.
    You are right...girls in Lingerie are permitted...but the question here is: How old are they.

  3. #223

    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    I think she moves like as if she has got worms.
    lol lol lol

  4. #224

    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by scandal599 View Post
    You are right...girls in Lingerie are permitted...but the question here is: How old are they.
    to be fair

    i don't really think the focus here is age

    at least, i don't see many "underage" models here in cs p&p, that is oversensationalised like hell in the report

    unless these are not posted up

  5. #225
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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    so just because TNP says MDA will clamp down on objectionable material, means that we have been putting up objectionable material? I don't see the logic here. The stuff posted up here is tamer than what's being shown in FHM , Maxim, and Playeur. and they are PUBLISHED, one by Mediacorp one by SPH (but now closed) and one by Viscion. If girls in lingerie was legally objectionable then they would all be out of business.
    u know lor some people just fear the fear mongers and not stop to think about the fallacy of the logic they are fearing.
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  6. #226
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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by scandal599 View Post
    Permit me to say this here as it is something I have to get off my chest.

    As I was reading through TNP's article again, it got me thinking. As per a previous topic http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440352, I gave credit to the TS for bringing this issue up, what I slammed was the points he made on morals and some arguments he mentioned that somehow did not seem to gel. In the light of this article that appeared yesterday, there are somethings which I need to just get it off my mind.

    The way I look at it, there are two sides to the same coin. One side is the shoot organiser and the other is the shooter who engages the model himself. Contrary to what others may say, age is still a key factor here. I know I will get slammed on this, but go ahead, it does not matter.

    To put a case in point. A few years back, there was a big issue with a Japanese model by the name Saaya Iriee. For those who do not know or forget who this person is, do a Google, you will know why. She was only 11 but she actually managed to forge closer ties in Sino-Japanese relations. She was a huge hit in the net, but at the same time, her parents and agent were also blasted for the same reason she was a hit. No matter which jurisdiction we are talking about, age is always a game of catch me if you can. If any legal issue is to be called here, let me state that from what I know, anybody under the age of 16 in SG is a minor. Anybody at the age of 18 can be tried in the court of law as an adult. I am not a lawyer for the record, this is what I know by far.

    As organisers, while they are not exactly duty bound to protect their models, there is a certain obligation for the organisers to do so. Organisers such as Melody-love (though I have not attended any of her shoots) , I believe she keeps a portfolio of the models she has worked with before. Same goes with Ivan S or any other shoot organiser, I believe, unless they are dubious. For that matter, it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that many, if not all of the shoot organisers here do an age check before even marketing the shoot. How they market it is another question which I will not go into as it will open a can of worms. It is clearly then that the onus in this case is on the organiser to verify the issues at hand lest the organiser themselves get implicated for all the wrong reason.

    The other is where the shooter engages the model. In this case, any shooter in the right frame of mind will meet up with the model first and talk to the model about what he is shooting and how he will be conducting the shoot. At the same time, any shooter will talk about concepts and gain feedback from the model as to what is permitted and what is not, especially in the context of the theme. Be it a normal fashion shoot, theme shoot, bikini, lingerie, nude or whatever the case is any shooter will do this to gain an understanding between himself and the model. But in this case here, anything can happen and most of the time, it is the model's word against the shooter' word, especially since if the model were female and the shooter male.

    Photographers who scour the Internet to look and prey on young girls like these for the lure of easy money most of the time are people seeking to satisfy some hedonistic fantasies, especially since they are young and impressionable. As such, the model must be smart enough to walk away from the shoot. If what they are afraid of is being branded as unprofessional, then they are seriously misguided. Will any girl want to be caught in a uncompromising position? If they have a valid reason for walking away from a shoot, then I do not see it as unprofessional. There is however a fine line being a prima donna and a diva as compared to one who is professional.

    For any model wannabe or aspiring models looking for shoots here and are reading this: it takes two hands to clap. Be smart enough to walk away from a shoot if you feel something is wrong especially with the request the shooter has made. To be branded as unprofessional by someone who does not have any professional ethics as a photographer is something you should not be losing sleep over. If you accept any form of indecent proposals in spite of knowing that it falls out of line with what you are comfortable, then I question your professionalism.
    wall of txt plz summarize. but i add one note: I question what you're trying to do since it sounds like u're trying to lecture people about how they should be policing each other.
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  7. #227
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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    to be fair

    i don't really think the focus here is age

    at least, i don't see many "underage" models here in cs p&p, that is oversensationalised like hell in the report

    unless these are not posted up

    There are not many underage models here...that I contend. And you are right in that sense that unless these are posted up, we will never know. As far as the two points go, I agree...especially in the context of CS. But outside...your guess is as good as mine.

  8. #228

    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    at least, i don't see many "underage" models here in cs p&p, that is oversensationalised like hell in the report

    unless these are not posted up
    this by far is probably the most dangerous part .....
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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Thai Bean View Post
    this by far is probably the most dangerous part .....
    and the most true. tnp should be sniffing those out.
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  10. #230

    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by scandal599 View Post
    There are not many underage models here...that I contend. And you are right in that sense that unless these are posted up, we will never know. As far as the two points go, I agree...especially in the context of CS. But outside...your guess is as good as mine.
    It only takes 1 to bring the house down.
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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    wall of txt plz summarize. but i add one note: I question what you're trying to do since it sounds like u're trying to lecture people about how they should be policing each other.
    The main idea is not about policing one another. That was never my intention, if it came across as such I sincerely apologise for it. The main aim here is that as models and shooters alike, we should be vigilant. It is a case of help me help you. We want to shoot, and one of the main avenues we have is here though there are others. But in the process of doing so, we need to be vigilant here as to what is going on lest we stumble into a pile of s**t. That time, as the chinese saying goes, "bathing in the yellow river will nor cleanse away the s**t you have been covered in".

  12. #232
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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by scandal599 View Post
    The main idea is not about policing one another. That was never my intention, if it came across as such I sincerely apologise for it. The main aim here is that as models and shooters alike, we should be vigilant. It is a case of help me help you. We want to shoot, and one of the main avenues we have is here though there are others. But in the process of doing so, we need to be vigilant here as to what is going on lest we stumble into a pile of s**t. That time, as the chinese saying goes, "bathing in the yellow river will nor cleanse away the s**t you have been covered in".
    haha i'm not worried coz i start out of the sludge bucket.
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  13. #233
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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    haha i'm not worried coz i start out of the sludge bucket.
    Then you need to bathe in the Brown River.

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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    It only takes 1 to bring the house down.
    depends, some houses are more robust than others.

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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    ur're the man!
    Confirm

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone View Post
    Meow?
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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    to be fair

    i don't really think the focus here is age

    at least, i don't see many "underage" models here in cs p&p, that is oversensationalised like hell in the report

    unless these are not posted up
    like i said

    the focus is

    ugly women who want to be called models

    and real models

    if we had real models

    we wouldn't have this problem

    again, i stress that i have an excellent screening process

    please vote me in

    thanks
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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by entropy_h View Post
    Confirm



    Pussy cat
    confirmed by the pussy cats?!


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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    what if is hot woman with xmm behaviour?

    e.g.



    (no one said it would be easyyyy)
    hot women with XMM behaviour will be on a case by case basis

    depending on how hot they are

    your example i would strike off

    behavior too retarded
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  19. #239

    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Quote Originally Posted by entropy_h View Post
    My screening process is confidential

    But it usually takes place in my home

    The rejected ones leave within 2 seconds

    The accepted ones stay between 1-2 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post


    i thought the accepted ones would never leave

    then sooner or later you have to run out of space
    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    depends, some houses are more robust than others.
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    Default Re: newpaper's report on XMM shoots

    Please understand that my intention was never to cause dissention and rifts in this forum, especially in this thread. As to my minor gaffes with mattlock, I mean no offense. As far as his pictures are concerned, they are fantastic, and as noob, I want to learn more from him and the people here who have been around a long time. As this is the only legit forum in SGP where noobs and experienced photographers can gather, this is the best place to ultimately learn and gather tips from experienced members like Zeckson.

    The thing is that when s**t hits the fan, everyone top to bottom will be affected. My intention here is to highlight the potential pitfalls and see if anything can be done to mitigate it. If I have offended anyone in anyway, I deeply apologise.

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